Author Topic: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE  (Read 2572 times)

keeptrying

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These groups have shown not only does it not help, in fact, when suicide is shown publicly and with prevention groups, the statistics in suicide more than double. It had been issued to the media  since 1987 as a suicide-preventive experiment in another country. As they made people more "aware" - suicides more than doubled. They started the same experiment in our country, with the same results, suicides increase. They have done studies on this.  It is customary in some countries for the media to discourage suicide reports except in special cases. Suicide prevention groups say they want to make people "aware" of suicide.. Everyone has ALWAYS been aware that suicide happens. EVERY case is different! These people just like to get money, and feel important, get a pat on the back and have people say, oh I am so sorry for your loss. Money greed and attention whores.
 Just like bullying, it has ALWAYS been there, ALWAYS will be there.. there is NOTHING anyone can do to stop bullies. If you want to stop kids from getting bullied, then be an involved parent! Teach your kids to have self esteem. These anti bullying group aren't going to stop it!!

An alternate model to explain copycat suicide, called "social proof" by Cialdini,[20] goes beyond the theories of glorification and simplification of reasons to look at why copycat suicides are so similar, demographically and in actual methods, to the original publicized suicide. In the social proof model, people imitate those who seem similar, despite or even because of societal disapproval. This model is important because it has nearly opposite ramifications for what the media ought to do about the copycat suicide effect than the standard model does.[citation needed] To deal with this problem, Alex Mesoudi of Queen Mary University, London, developed a computer model of a community of 1000 people, to examine how copycat suicides occur. These were divided into 100 groups of 10, in a model designed to represent different levels of social organization, such as schools or hospitals within a town or state. Mesoudi then circulated the simulation through 100 generations. He found the simulated people acted just as sociologists' theory predicted. They were more likely to die by suicide in clusters, either because they had learned this trait from their friends, or because suicidal people are more likely to be like one another
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 07:39:59 AM by keeptrying »

THATgurl

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 11:19:39 AM »
This is a really interesting post.  This is an issue I have been thinking about A LOT recently.  I am far from up to date on the current research, but I was fairly up to date several years ago.  I also have an unfortunate amount of personal experience to draw upon (which means nothing, as it is just mine).

Here is the issue to me - as a society we really should not condemn or cast aside people who have no choice.  The fact that people take their own lives is a reality and it has been a reality throughout recorded history.  Obviously, the vast majority of us want to prevent that when possible.  But HOW?

This may surprise many who know me well, but I totally agree that there is a tendency for the "understanding" or "awareness" movements to normalize the behavior.  Obviously, that makes it a more viable "choice" for some.  Clearly a bad societal model.

However, for some it is not about choice - not at all.    Some people will feel unworthy of drawing breath and will "correct" the problem regardless of societal views.  So, the question to me becomes "how do we HELP those who clearly are at risk without normalizing a clearly destructive behavior".

Anyway, I have been thinking A LOT about this over the past few months for a variety of reasons.  If i ever say anything that makes your skin crawl, chat with me a bit more.  I really do feel lately like 90% of "disagreements" or conflicts of opinion are based on incomplete communication.  Of course, i am sure I am wrong about that :D
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:24:59 AM by THATgurl »

THATgurl

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 01:50:56 PM »
So, I am still banging on about this in my head.  I was going to just keep it all to myself, but I truly believe the road to a better reality is reasonable communication.  That said, maybe my thoughts will help someone (even if they are just telling me how wrong I am LOL).

Throughout my time in life and as a member of widow forums, I am more able to understand why my line of thinking is not always right.  My life experience, education, personal reality etc lead me to the view that suicide is not situational.  When I am having a really good day and suddenly realize I am sitting on the toilet (TMI I know) saying out loud "I just want to die.  I just need to end this".  I can't really explain that.  I know that he had made multiple attempts and when he succeeded all neutral observers (who were clued into what matters) said his future never looked brighter.

That is far and away different than a situational incident, right?  So if we want to help those like him or those like me of the world, we do one thing.  We discuss and raise awareness and destigmatize so that people feel capable of seeking help.

The butter-down side of the toast is that by doing so, we normalize this very destructive behavior to some extent.   That may well greatly harm someone who is going through a transient crisis.

Some of you may realize this thought process can be applied to various societal issues.  Some of you will say "huh"?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 10:01:24 PM by THATgurl »

Sugarbell

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 01:59:44 PM »
Well....There I guess are some ways to prevent some suicides../

Veterans...Give them better after care when they come home. Also less deployments...Will it save all? Nope...but I think it certainly could reduce the numbers (this is nothing the advocacy groups can do-this is the damn governments job)

Teenagers-I do see some cases with bullying/cyber bullying leading to suicide. I think addressing those issues (not necessarily suicide) could help. Again not all..but some kids.

I don't know about the rest. I really don't. I don't know any studies...just my experience. I mean as survivors we have the added layer of guilt to our grief-and it took me years to let it go. I couldn't have stopped Ben...he saw his best friend and parents the night before he did it...they couldn't stop him. Maybe more gun control would help in some cases (and that's a whole other can of worms I don't want to get into).. but I dunno...I really don't know.
B.W.H. 9/24/2007

THATgurl

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 02:03:56 PM »
No matter how you slice it, it is a shit sandwich that no one should have to deal with.  One reality is that as survivors, we are also at far greater risk statistically.  I do totally agree that providing better channels for help and safety in known high risk situations would be a brilliant step.

WifeLess

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 04:33:32 PM »
keeptrying,

As you correctly point out, research has shown that suicides often occur in clusters, and publicizing suicides, especially of high profile individuals, may cause a temporary increase in the number of such deaths. It is believed that the extent of this "copycat" behavior depends on how these suicides are reported by the news media, which often unintentionally (and sometimes intentionally) sensationalizes and even glamorizes death by suicide. Consequently, several mental health organizations and suicide prevention groups have put together a set of guidelines for responsible reporting of suicide deaths:

http://reportingonsuicide.org/

It seems unclear whether the number of suicides increases as a result of activities sponsored by suicide prevention groups themselves, such as awareness walks, fund raising events, etc. But even if not, I still have a problem with these groups for other reasons. On the old YWBB I sometimes posted about the trivialization of suicide prevention that I often see being publicly promoted by them. A few excerpts:

"As a survivor of suicide (SOS) of my wife, I have a problem with how suicide is commonly portrayed to the public, not only by the news media, but even by many suicide prevention groups ... they mislead the public by significantly understating, and sometimes totally ignoring, the tremendous challenges frequently faced when attempting to prevent the suicide of a loved one ..."

"... these organizations routinely promote the popular misconception that preventing a suicide is pretty straightforward, perhaps even easy ...

"The truth is that the actual efforts required to save a life often far exceed those commonly promoted by the news media and suicide prevention groups ..."

"This attempt to ... trivialize suicide prevention is not only misleading to the general public, but also dismissive and insulting to many of us who have lost a loved one to suicide despite our extraordinary efforts to save them. And it may be psychologically harmful to us as well due to the subtle message it sends: If awareness of the warning signs, a little vigilance and a simple intervention were all that were needed to save their life, then we must be partially to blame for their death. Or if not to blame, then at least we could have easily saved them, and should have. This lie reinforces the tremendous guilt and self-doubt that many of us already feel in the aftermath of our loved one's suicide, which are almost universal reactions regardless of the circumstances."

--- WifeLess
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 12:39:34 PM by WifeLess »

AndysWife

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 07:23:35 AM »
One thing I've noticed over the last 4 years, is that the majority who believe it can be prevented are the parents or siblings of the deceased. Those who march are rarely spouses (in Oz at least)

My husband lost many friends to suicide before he died and I've lost 2 female friends to suicide in the last year (one only 3 weeks ago) and I know for a fact that my husband changed when his best friend suicided and I bet this happens a lot to SOS friends. I even know parents who have suicided after the suicide of their child. My own son was stopped in the act of hanging himself by my daughter one month after my husband died so I for one do believe that it sets off a chain reaction/domino effect.

I just wish people put as much effort into supporting or helping those left behind like me and my kids.
A.B.D.  26/01/1969 - 08/08/2011

WifeLess

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 08:39:17 AM »
AndysWife,

What you describe is my sense as well. Spouses rarely participate in SOS (survivor of suicide) activities, as the reasons for teen suicide are often quite unlike what they are for adults. An otherwise well-adjusted teen may be bullied or feel socially ostracized, leading to thoughts of suicide, and in such situations death may be easily preventable. Some awareness and vigilance, as well as open and honest discussion of the problem, perhaps in the form of temporary professional counseling, may in fact be all that are needed to save their life. But as I have written in the past:

"... none of this applies to my wife, who suffered for decades from a chronic anxiety/depressive disorder and battled occasional episodes of major psychotic depression. Nor does it apply to many other adults whose suicides were similarly associated with serious physical or mental illness, or with some form of personality disorder, perhaps undiagnosed, and may also have involved years of drug or alcohol dependence. This may explain why we, their widowed spouses, sometimes feel out of place even at SOS support group meetings, where we are vastly outnumbered by parents and siblings grieving the death of a teen or young adult."

--- WifeLess
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 12:56:24 PM by WifeLess »

HoldingOn

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 07:19:08 PM »
Interesting...
I am very leery about sharing details about my husbands completed suicide with anyone I feel is unstable or "immature".
I have only told the complete details to one family member- who's husband also tried to suicide. I will never discuss the details with my younger family members.

I too agree with Wifeless as my husbands situation was very similar. He suffered from terminal mental illness. Not due to any situation.

I had one clueless family member write on Facebook after Robin Williams died- that he is going to teach his children (young school aged children) how to cope...so they don't choose suicide.
Good luck with that buddy...may you never know the pain of having a family member with a "chemical imbalance/brain disease." (I don't blame him for his ignorance..you truly can't know unless you've gone thru it first hand.)

Not words of wisdom..just thanks for being able to be in a thread where other's TRULY get it...

Sugarbell

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 08:49:31 PM »
Yes I so agree.

The walks....seem to be dominated by siblings....my one friend who lost his Dad to suicide when he was 18 is also active with the walks. He was good friends with Ben and his suicide affected him horribly.

And I agree....What about the survivors?? Not saying siblings aren't...but they are able to go on with there lives/spouse/kids...Being an SOS widow/er....puts a different spin on things. Again not better or worse just different. Try raising kids (any age from 0-18) after a spouse suicides...and the surviving spouse is left with a whole different array of issues...that are always there.

DHs friends (we have like 50 people coming to walk on our team-they all knew Ben) has talked me into being present at the walk Saturday. I will probably be the only spouse. I am only staying an hour...Nothing is to be said about me/Ben/kids...but my daughter and I will show our face...then leave. My sons aren't going...I won't discuss any of it with them...they have friends taking them to baseball games/golf...

and the organizers still don't get why my 11 and 12 year old sons don't want to be there. Uh...because they have dealt with suicide pretty much there entire fucking lives.

Sigh...sorry tonight makes 8 years for me...and my plate is overwhelming full at the moment.
B.W.H. 9/24/2007

CastleOnSand

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Re: Suicide Prevention is a TERRIBLE DISGUSTING HOAX -!! IT PROMOTES SUICIDE
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2015, 01:45:41 PM »
After watching a show "a million ways to die", I think no one is safe. But it didn't make me want to impose hurt upon myself.
The idea of a prevention program raising awareness which leads to someone else's demise, sounds highly controversial, at least to me.
I guess the statistical aspects would best be left to experts more versed, than I.