Author Topic: Love and Logic strategies  (Read 11518 times)

RobFTC

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Love and Logic strategies
« on: December 02, 2015, 10:30:44 AM »
Hey gang,

Some of you may have heard of "Love and Logic", an initiative started years back by Jim Fay of Golden, CO.  They are at http://loveandlogic.com.  I am just a customer, and want to have a space to work out strategies.

Let me explain.  Love and Logic is all about trying to stay out of the way while kids learn from natural consequences of
their decisions.  When they make bad decisions, you don't bull in and react, but take time to figure out what you can say
or do that has the best chance at making them realize it was their decision that was the problem.  For young kids, you'd
pick up the toy they left out and perhaps have them come up with a chore to do for you to get it back.  For older kids, well,
that's what I am trying to figure out right now.  Raising a teen who's smarter and sneakier than you is exciting!  :o

For this to work out best, you need to have a sounding board to make your strategy effective - here's my plan, what could
go wrong with it?  If anyone is up for that kind of discussion, here's the place.  Us wids have an uphill battle with parenting
that often includes nobody to readily conspire with, and so this could help.  I have seen good strategies work so well and so
fast it's taken my breath away, and I have had what I thought were good ideas collapse in front of me.  I commit to reading
about your struggles and seeing if I can help out; this has been fun when I have done it in person.

Is anyone with me?

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

Sugarbell

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 11:08:04 AM »
Count me in!😊

I am in for a long ride with this teen stuff. Oldest just hitting teen years and two more behind him. I will need all the wisdom and support I can get!

Great idea.
B.W.H. 9/24/2007

Abitlost

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 11:29:11 AM »
I'm in!
abl
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 07:45:11 PM by Abitlost »

imissdow

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 01:02:53 PM »
I'm in my teen is now 19 but being that she still lives at home I could really use a sounding board and some ideas about what to do with her.

widowat33

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 03:02:31 PM »
Great idea!

momtokam

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 05:06:19 PM »
I'm in!

Trying

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 06:48:18 PM »
I'm in! My older 2 will be exiting their teen years as my youngest enters. any advice and support is greatly appreciated!
You will forever be my always.

trying2breathe

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 09:32:15 PM »
Count in me too!   

My daughter is 17 and I would appreciate all of the parent strategies that I can get!    ::)
Have I told you lately how much I love you?

twistedmensa

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 12:36:58 AM »
I'm in. I'm currently surrounded by adolescent attitude. :P

mmg19

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 07:25:05 AM »
Great idea Rob.  My boys are 12 and 14 and I've been "trying" to practice this pragmatic approach to parenting since my boys were toddlers.  Read the early childhood book and found it the most realistic and useful book.  Now I need the Love and Logic book for teens since I sure do need a refresher course on staying consistent.  Amazon has the paperback at reasonable prices. 

Looking forward to having a sounding board and discussion group of like minds.  I'm in.

RobFTC

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Love and Logic strategy for dishwasher
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 11:05:02 AM »
This is illustrative of how far I have to go from my norms to how it should be.  You will see how much I nag and remind.  I may have gotten one thing right per L&L here.

My girls take turns unloading the dishwasher, and putting in all of the dishes on the counter waiting to go in.  Last night, it was Miss R's turn, and as usual, her time priorities are sketchy.  She was reading her history text (while listening to earbuds) after dinner and said "one and a half more paragraphs and I will do that."  An hour later, she was still at her desk reading.  I talked to her about it (not what I should be doing).  We talked about it being important she was not late getting into the shower and in her sister's way, so she went up to shower.  A half-hour later, she had not started showering, and I talked to her about that (not what I should be doing).  After her shower, she needed another reminder about the dishwasher (not what I should be doing).  She unloaded the dishwasher, but left the dirty dishes on the counter (a bumper crop).  On the way out the door this morning, I did the one good L&L thing and said, "Thanks for unloading the dishwasher.  I see you chose to leave the dirty dishes on the counter.  I was going to wipe the counters really well before your party, but there's no problem, you can do that after you handle the dirty dishes this afternoon."  No opposition, which was nice.  I have managed to set an norm that work deferred without a good reason can result in more work, but I could be more consistent about that.

For the one-hour showers taken without regard for her sister, I am thinking I should simply say that anyone who has showered without causing problems for others for the past week is welcome to use their shared shower.  Those who have caused problems have to use my shower, which is nice but doesn't have all the froo-froo stuff they like.  I might even want to post a notice on the bathroom door.  Thoughts?

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

Abitlost

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Re: Love and Logic strategy for dishwasher
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2015, 11:22:32 AM »
This is illustrative of how far I have to go from my norms to how it should be.  You will see how much I nag and remind.  I may have gotten one thing right per L&L here.

My girls take turns unloading the dishwasher, and putting in all of the dishes on the counter waiting to go in.  Last night, it was Miss R's turn, and as usual, her time priorities are sketchy.  She was reading her history text (while listening to earbuds) after dinner and said "one and a half more paragraphs and I will do that."  An hour later, she was still at her desk reading.  I talked to her about it (not what I should be doing).  We talked about it being important she was not late getting into the shower and in her sister's way, so she went up to shower.  A half-hour later, she had not started showering, and I talked to her about that (not what I should be doing).  After her shower, she needed another reminder about the dishwasher (not what I should be doing).  She unloaded the dishwasher, but left the dirty dishes on the counter (a bumper crop).  On the way out the door this morning, I did the one good L&L thing and said, "Thanks for unloading the dishwasher.  I see you chose to leave the dirty dishes on the counter.  I was going to wipe the counters really well before your party, but there's no problem, you can do that after you handle the dirty dishes this afternoon."  No opposition, which was nice.  I have managed to set an norm that work deferred without a good reason can result in more work, but I could be more consistent about that.

For the one-hour showers taken without regard for her sister, I am thinking I should simply say that anyone who has showered without causing problems for others for the past week is welcome to use their shared shower.  Those who have caused problems have to use my shower, which is nice but doesn't have all the froo-froo stuff they like.  I might even want to post a notice on the bathroom door.  Thoughts?

Take care,
Rob T

Hi Rob,

I didn't quite follow the shower situation. Do they have one bathroom that they share and each has an assigned shower time? If that's the case, it seems more logical to me that if one misses her assigned time, she doesn't instead get to use your bathroom but instead simply forfeits her shower for the day; having to go to school unbathed once or twice may be more impactful than an alternate shower facility.

I have the same situation on the nagging, be it around unloading their lunch boxes, folding laundry, making beds, etc. None of these are huge infractions but I dislike having to remind them again and again. Sometimes after nagging doesn't work, I will give an hour's notice and say that dinner will be served to anyone who has done x, y or z which gets the tasks done but that isn't quite natural consequences. Suggestions?

abl

Trying

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 12:21:20 PM »
Rob, I'm not sure I could've left the house with a pile of dirty dishes on the counter, that's the kind of thing that pushes me from nagging to yelling.  Not exactly L&L I guess. 

As far as the shower goes, I think the consequence of using your shower may end up more of a consequence for you.  The froo froo will start to migrate, as well as any mess into your space. How about she is not allowed to shower until after her sister and if she's not finished by a certain time the hot water gets turned off.  Not sure if this is fitting with the strategies but I feel like behaviors shouldn't be allowed to impact other people in the house. 

What would be a strategy for dealing with my son's disgustingly messy bedroom? His answer is always "it's my room, just close the door and don't look at it".  He is 17. 
You will forever be my always.

RobFTC

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  • Lost Michelle to ovarian cancer 2010/11/07
    • Celtic Journeys radio show
Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2015, 05:37:59 PM »
Hi Abi, yes, they share a shower, but no, there are no set times.  They used to have to negotiate who would shower first, and that often enough resulted in fights due to Rebecca's flakiness and "I want to go first but I won't start on time" stuff.  Rebecca now goes first by my rule.  The normal pattern of late is that Sarah gets in the shower at 9:20 and is out by 9:30 or 9:35, and 9:30 is her bedtime.  She deadline schedules it, but she's dead reliable.  Rebecca's showers shift all over, and she never cares to talk to Sarah about shower times, so she stomps on Sarah's time fairly often.  The goal is to sand off this rough edge :-)  I have tried to say she can't shower if she is late, but the stinker has ducked in there super-late anyway, and then she's bothering her sister in their shared room.  If I could really deliver a consequence for not keeping an agreement, I could try that again.

The clean-your-room-to-get-fed is not unprecedented, but you're right, it's not tied to the infraction.  An alternate: you go clean by putting stuff in a bin, and they do some of your shores to pay you back for the energy, and to earn the right to get their stuff back.

Hi Trying, yeah, I have already had stuff drift into my shower.  I did manage to tamp that down a bit by announcing that things left could be tossed out.  Turning off the hot water sounds interesting, but I am not sure how easy that is with our plumbing; I may have to check.

The disgusting bedroom, been there, still there.  I have Rebecca cleaning it up because she is a repeat offender on food and I want to patrol more safely and easily.  Prior to that, I was insisting it be cleaned before they had anyone over to visit, but kind of stayed out of it otherwise.  I have cared more about them keeping their shared bathroom clean, as that is what guests would use.

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

Abitlost

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 06:26:48 PM »
What would be a strategy for dealing with my son's disgustingly messy bedroom? His answer is always "it's my room, just close the door and don't look at it".  He is 17.

Trying, in my house technically the rooms are mine -- my name is on the deed, not theirs -- they just get the privilege of living there. Therefore, my rules apply to every room. That said, we have issues in this area as well, I just don't get that excuse. This is getting better of late however, for reasons I can't explain.

Rob, I did try the bin method once and it was not particularly successful. On the showers, how about one showers at night and the other in the morning?