Author Topic: Love and Logic strategies  (Read 11552 times)

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 11:42:11 PM »
They get up at 6 and are out the door to the bus at 6:45 - it's certain that nobody is going to shower in the morning.  Except me, I'm showered and dressed (but unfed) and have a coffee in my hand by 6:40 :-)

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

imissdow

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2015, 04:45:49 PM »
The biggest problem I seem to have is coming up with a consequences that are painful enough to do the job.  Turning off the hot water is a great idea. If it's doable. missing a shower would be another good idea.  In our house the last person in the shower usually got a cold shower.  I told the girls if their showers took to long and I therefore had no hot water left then they would be the last one in the shower next time and I would make sure there was no hot water left. that worked pretty well and my girls figured out  times on their own that they could have more time in the bathroom. We have 1 shower for 4 of us. So one of the girls usually takes a shower shortly after getting home and one right before bed.

As far as the dishes.  I am the first one up in the morning 5:15. I also head to bed sometimes before the 19yo does.  If chores aren't done and I wake up to find them undone the offending party gets woken up and they do them first thing in the morning.  I have been known to get up earlier if I suspect a chore won't be done. This has worked pretty well as my girls don't normally crawl out of bed till 6:30.  I leave for work at 6:15.  They are typically done by then. I have yet to figure out how to get them to keep their rooms clean.

Any suggestions on how to keep my kids from fighting over the tv and seats on the couch.  I have a couch and a love seat and both girls seem to think they have the right to one of their own. 3 kids 2 couches it never seems to work. The youngest is usually the odd man out. They don't fight with me I'll just unhook the internet and that makes the house a blackhole were nothing works and then I have the living room to myself, 

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 07:32:45 PM »
Today's challenge - cooking.

Rebecca and Sarah each cook once a week, with me cooking or putting leftovers on as needed on the other days.  We have dinner at 6pm, and I am reluctant to let anything disrupt it.  When I am late, I let them know.  I can be very, very efficient to nail that deadline :-)

Sarah regularly lands dinner on time, with some glitches when she has stuff go sideways.  Her skills are not solid, and when stuff gets out of hand, she's not great at making good "what next" decisions or asking for help.  But I can tell that she wants to do a good job, and she's sorry when she's late.

Rebecca very often lands dinner late, sometimes well over a half hour late, with no apology.  The basic root cause seems to be that she just doesn't give a damn and/or this is a good way to do get negative attention.  As many times as I ask, she won't take the 30 seconds it would take to let me know what to expect.  Today, she's cooking, and she said it would take a half-hour.  She was in the bathroom until 6, so she's for sure going to be late.  She hasn't communicated.  It's harder on me now that I am dieting.

I would like some feedback and more ideas for consequences for being late.  I can reduce them if I get notice, and I may be open to an occasional "it wasn't my fault" if I buy it.  Ideas I have had so far:

- you're fired from cooking for being too flaky, so you can contribute by cleaning bathrooms and toilets weekly instead
  - not completely happy with this, because I want her to get cooking experience, and she does tackle new recipes often

- you can cook dinners until you land a meal at or before 6pm
  - better as it taps the expectation that a task done later than expected might grow in size or result in another task added

I also don't know what to do if she just refuses to accept the consequence.  They need a lot less from me, so "energy drain" feels harder now.

Yes, I need to dig into the books.  It's been busy.

Thanks,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

momtokam

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2015, 09:45:19 PM »
I like the second option better Rob.
To me, it would seem more work for her. Dinner every night until you get it right instead of toilets once a week. More incentive to get dinner right the first time.

If she refuses, I have no answer...

Trying

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2015, 06:20:57 AM »
I also like the "keep cooking dinner every night  until you get it right".  I think it's great that they cook!  My 17year old  throws something I have prepared into the oven before I get home but that's about it. 

It seems like time is a big issue in your house, you like things on a pretty strict schedule and your daughter is a little looser with time.  What if you acknowledge your different approaches to timliness and compromise that you will allow some wiggle room of 5.45-6:15 to be acceptable for dinner on the table?
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SimiRed

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2015, 08:24:31 AM »
Count me in too.

I've tried the "Natural Consequences" too, but sometimes it ends up biting me in the butt.  Like my son (15) running late in the mornings when he needs to catch the bus.  I've been told to just let him miss the bus.  But, without the nagging...hurry up, you have 5 minutes, you have 3 minutes...hurry up!, he'd drag his feet and never make it.  My problem is, if he misses the bus, I end up driving him to school, so this "Natural Consequence" takes it's toll on me, not him.  He still makes it to school.  No way will I let him just stay home because he missed the bus.  I guess I need to figure out which things need to be the "Natural Consequences" lesson? 

Rob, not sure on the shower thing.  I have been trying to voice the "consequences" ahead of time and following through.  You could say, if the shower situation is not under control in one week, I will be purchasing a timer for the hot water heater that will automatically shut the hot water off at 10pm and turn back on in the morning.  This would eliminate the need to run to the hot water heater breaker everyday to flip it off or on.

imissdow:  Hmmm, fighting over the tv and seats?  How about a first come first serve rule?  If fighting persists, then no tv, they can resort to reading a book.  If they know you can make the house a "blackhole", then possibly the fighting will stop if you disconnect it often enough every time they fight. 

Rob:  I wouldn't fire her from cooking, that would be a task/chore that you are taking away from her.  She may look at that as a positive thing.  Can you discuss and give a consequence ahead of time?  Tell her the day before, for every minute you are late with the meal, you must leave your cell phone/tablet (whatever she has) on the counter for that amount of time.  So, if she's a half hour late with dinner, her phone stays on the counter for a half an hour, or in a place you know where it's at and she can't have it or steal it back without your knowledge.  OR, for every minute late with the meal, she can sit in the chair, living room, where you can see her and do some reading, or just sitting, who cares...just somehow try to show her what those "minutes" feel like when she's late.

My son is a huge procrastinator!  He is late all the time, but is getting better.  I have now made him leave his phone upstairs in the mornings and he can only have it back when he comes upstairs and is ready for school/bus.  It's getting better, slowly, but getting better.  He still pushes the limit though!

I do like the "keep cooking until you get it right option", her sister will have more free time and she may not like that.
~Tracey~
My wonderful husband Rick of 19 years, 12/11/67 - 9/20/09 Neuroendocrine cancer.
I still miss you everyday, I go forward, but my mind stands still.

Abitlost

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2015, 09:53:00 AM »
Rob,

This isn't what you asked so forgive me if I'm out of line but I had some thoughts on some of the struggles you've mentioned. A while back, I think you posted that one of your girls has ADHD; is that R? If that is the case, her timeliness be it in the shower or the kitchen is affected by her compromised executive function and planning skills. It may not be that she doesn't care, but she is challenged to stay on task and could benefit from some accommodations to aid her. I'm not saying let her off the hook, but recognize that ordinary tasks are more difficult for her. Things like consideration and respect aren't excusable defenses IMO but maybe if she had a little more latitude she could perform better?

Just a thought...

abl


Abitlost

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2015, 09:57:51 AM »
SimiRed,

On your son's morning procrastination, how about if he doesn't get his phone until he is walking out the door, or at a minimum has his coat/backpack, etc on and is 100% ready? That could prompt him to expedite his morning routine!

On the mornings he misses the bus and you have to drive him, you could charge him for your time and gas to drive him to school.

abl

trying2breathe

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2015, 10:05:27 AM »
Rob   Your DD is bucking your system, for whatever reason.  I think there's a deeper issue going on, it seems that whatever your rules she is resisting them.   Stricter discipline with her is having the opposite effect than what you would like.   

I'm going out on a limb to offer a contrary thought.  Have you considered making some adjustments to work within her way of doing things?  Let her know that her efforts are appreciated, and emphasize the importance of getting dinner on the table on time.  I'd emphasize how hungry you are at the end of the day, how nice it is to sit down as a family and enjoy dinner together.   Ask what she needs to make it work - a simpler meal, more time, ability to food shop, recipe ideas.  Maybe consider a celebration meal out, or something else that she enjoys, should she start to be successful at getting dinner served on time.   

As far as a consequence for late dinner, ask again what she needs to get dinner on the table in time.   I do like the continue on until you get it right, although hopefully she won't have a stretch of days and days, trying to get it right.     

Kids are so different, what works for one doesn't always work for another.  My two kids are as different as night and day, it's been a challenge to figure out how to deal with the issues of both.  A struggle has also been their observation that things are not always fair - I sometimes reward one for an accomplishment, when the other effortlessly and happily completes the job.  I try hard to have discipline and benefits work out equally, my kids and I have had many conversations about this.   

 Good luck, and bon appetit!
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Sugarbell

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2015, 11:39:18 AM »
SR and ABL-Yes I can relate. My 13 year old is horrible in the mornings...and yea if he misses his ride I am stuck driving him into school. It's a nightmare every morning (the 8 and 11 year olds are easy, get ready...he used to be too until hormones or whatever the hell happens when they hit 12/13.

ABL-Love the idea about taking the phone until he walks out the door. I think that might work with my kid. It's worth a try!
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RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2015, 03:06:55 PM »
It seems like time is a big issue in your house, you like things on a pretty strict schedule and your daughter is a little looser with time.  What if you acknowledge your different approaches to timliness and compromise that you will allow some wiggle room of 5.45-6:15 to be acceptable for dinner on the table?

Oh heck yeah, I figure anyone can be 10 minutes late, and really do not mind.  But a half-hour is too common, and I've had attitude that suggests this isn't always just an accident.  I have also said that I would happily eat at 5:30 if the error went in that direction, of course that has *never* happened :-)

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2015, 03:16:22 PM »
I've tried the "Natural Consequences" too, but sometimes it ends up biting me in the butt.  Like my son (15) running late in the mornings when he needs to catch the bus.  I've been told to just let him miss the bus.  But, without the nagging...hurry up, you have 5 minutes, you have 3 minutes...hurry up!, he'd drag his feet and never make it.  My problem is, if he misses the bus, I end up driving him to school, so this "Natural Consequence" takes it's toll on me, not him.  He still makes it to school.  No way will I let him just stay home because he missed the bus.  I guess I need to figure out which things need to be the "Natural Consequences" lesson? 

Hi SR, I would suggest "energy drain" or something related.  "Gosh, son, I used up all my driving energy taking you to school when you missed the bus.  I don't think I have any to spare to take you to your friend's house to play."  Or maybe he has to think up chores he can do to restore your energy.  It DOES have an impact on you, so you have to get him to address that.  My girls missed the bus once; I do stand in the living room to say goodbye and may happen to note that it's 6:45 if I don't see them by then.  I think they got to get dinner on the table an extra day each when I had to drive them.

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2015, 03:19:37 PM »
This isn't what you asked so forgive me if I'm out of line but I had some thoughts on some of the struggles you've mentioned. A while back, I think you posted that one of your girls has ADHD; is that R?

No, that's Sarah.  Rebecca is just affected by the usual hormones :-)  I do account for Sarah's organizational skills and executive functioning when she's late or having issues, for sure.

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2015, 03:30:31 PM »
Rob   Your DD is bucking your system, for whatever reason.  I think there's a deeper issue going on, it seems that whatever your rules she is resisting them.   Stricter discipline with her is having the opposite effect than what you would like.   

This sounds very true.  I have absolutely been adding fuel to her oppositional energy by reacting with anger and adding consequences.  The other night I was on her for starting a shower late again, and she said, "Can you please wait until I'm late getting out of the shower to get on me about this?"  And she took a short shower to get out at the time we'd talked about, which I thought her incapable of doing.  So last night when she seemed to be running late, I said, "You're welcome to use this shower if you're out by 9pm."  And she made it.  So yes, I think backing off some of my reactions is very helpful right now.  If there's another late shower, I think I will make a sign about her being welcome to use this bathroom again on such-and-such a date.

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.

RobFTC

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Re: Love and Logic strategies
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2015, 03:36:02 PM »
Today, she's cooking, and she said it would take a half-hour.  She was in the bathroom until 6, so she's for sure going to be late.  She hasn't communicated.

I should follow up.  Dinner was ready just before I hit "Post" on this message.  When I sat down, Rebecca apologized and said she had had legitimate needs in the bathroom, so I accepted that with grace and we had a good meal together.  Sometimes I misdiagnose things, too.

Take care,
Rob T
There was something fishy about the butler.  I think he was a Pisces, probably working for scale.