Author Topic: Radical changes - leaving everything behind  (Read 5003 times)

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2016, 03:11:18 AM »
Mizpah, do you allow me to ask you a question?
You said your first husband and you were inseperatable. You seem to have had a good and strong relationship. That is exactly what happened between my deceased husband and me.

I understand the bond you have with your second husband will be different, but can I ask you in what way it is different? I think that it is impossible to be as connected with someone in the future as I was with my deceased soulmate. Do you agree with that, is that the case with you as well?

Please ignore if this is something you want to keep to yourself.

We were young together and grew older together. This alone is something that never can be repeated.

My husband was very intelligent, intellectual, witty. We talked a lot between the two, shared our thoughts on all kinds of topics and levels. Currently I like to think that yes, it will be possible for me to once have a new boyfriend, but without that very strong connectedness I once had. That new person could be just a companion, some one who takes care of me and who I can take care of.
Someone who would help me and I would help him when needed. Without the strong connection on many levels that I used to have. Just a simple, beautiful, respectful being together, growing old together.

I suppose how it could go is that the many things I found in my husband will have to be divided over several people - friends. I have a special female friend who callenges me intellectually and we have great conversations. Another female friend helps me with the vague plans I have with my new career in textiles. I have another friend who lost her son and we support eachother when we have it rough. From someone else I get practical help.

I can see that another person could be my companion in life. He wouldn't necessarily meet my intellectual needs. He wouldn't neccessarily have to talk about grieving or about how to lay out my new future careerwise. We would be companions who look after eachother and care for eachother. We would tell how are days went. We would sleep together and wake up together.

At the moment this is the only way I can see me having a new relationship. (Before that I thought it would be impossible alltogether, but at the same time emotional loneliness is killing me, as my need to be touched)

Could you - and anyone!- please give your thoughts on this?


Wheelerswife

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2016, 07:26:40 AM »
I understand the bond you have with your second husband will be different, but can I ask you in what way it is different? I think that it is impossible to be as connected with someone in the future as I was with my deceased soulmate. Do you agree with that, is that the case with you as well?

Could you - and anyone!- please give your thoughts on this?

Hi, Milojka,

I will try to answer your question about my experiences and my views of several others who have been widowed and who found new love again.  I found love again after being widowed...and my second husband was absolutely amazing.  He was nothing at all like my first husband.  His personality, his abilities, his giftedness...were all very different.  I loved the life I had with him, and he with me, even though I still missed my first husband and he missed his late wife...who was very different from me.

I know at least 10 younger widows and widowers and widow/widower couples who have found new love and are incredibly happy in spite of their losses in the past.  I believe that all of them would agree that you can't go looking for what you have lost.  You have to be open to something completely new.  Just a couple of weeks ago, a widower friend that I used to talk to a lot...when we were both in a pretty sad state...he sent me pictures of his wedding.  When we first started talking, he was 4 years from losing his wife of about 30 years and he couldn't envision life being good again.  I encouraged him to get out and meet people...and he started by going to a group from Meetup.com.  He met his now wife just 1 1/2 years ago and the transformation in him is amazing.  (Any oldies remember dsb from the old board?)

So...the bottom line is that it is possible to find incredible love again.  I don't know if everyone can find this kind of love and I don't think that some people want to find it again.  Some people would prefer not to recouple.  I think some people aren't wired the same way I am...I know I function best and I am happiest in a partnership.  Some people may find that they don't find a relationship with the quality of their marriage to their late spouses.  I'm at the point where I think about this quite a bit, and I wish to find a third great love.  It has to be possible, right?  Please let it be right!

Hugs to you,

Maureen
Life is short.  Love with all you've got. 

Barry 11/29/55-9/22/09       John  1/16/57-1/11/14

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Mizpah

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2016, 09:01:06 AM »
Mizpah, do you allow me to ask you a question?
You said your first husband and you were inseperatable. You seem to have had a good and strong relationship. That is exactly what happened between my deceased husband and me.

I understand the bond you have with your second husband will be different, but can I ask you in what way it is different? I think that it is impossible to be as connected with someone in the future as I was with my deceased soulmate. Do you agree with that, is that the case with you as well?

Please ignore if this is something you want to keep to yourself.



I can see that another person could be my companion in life. He wouldn't necessarily meet my intellectual needs. He wouldn't neccessarily have to talk about grieving or about how to lay out my new future careerwise. We would be companions who look after eachother and care for eachother. We would tell how are days went. We would sleep together and wake up together.

At the moment this is the only way I can see me having a new relationship. (Before that I thought it would be impossible alltogether, but at the same time emotional loneliness is killing me, as my need to be touched)

Could you - and anyone!- please give your thoughts on this?

Of course.  I'd be happy to share.  But I believe that my situation has much less to do with widowhood, or with me and what I was looking for than the very very different personalities of the men I happened to end up with, and I say happened to, because I think in each relationship, I was very passive and just seeing where life took me....

It's different in EVERY way.  DH was young, idealistic, insanely beautiful, full of life, super positive, really easygoing, had the hugest heart, was naturally generous of spirit, revered women, had a super close relationship with his mom and family.  He moved to LA from Israel when he was a kid, and grew up in NYC from the time he was 11.  Obsessed with learning and bettering himself, very protective and caring - huge emphasis on education, as he was the first in his family to ever go to college.  He had an international perspective - a big worldview.  We read constantly - would read different books with opposing perspectives on the same issue (when we disagreed), would read the same novel at the same time together, would go to lectures together, talked constantly.  DH saw everyone for exactly who they were, but also always chose to see the best in them and treated them that way - he was realistic, but still loved through rosy glasses.  My current boyfriend and the father of my daughter is a widower, first of all.  When his (pregnant) fiancee died, he lost her two boys he'd been raising as his own to their father who'd been uninvolved until then.  He also comes from a childhood full of violent physical and verbal/emotional abuse.  He has extreme emotional scars - and I say scars rather than wounds, because he doesn't let anything touch him.  He has no vulnerabilities.  He's insensitive.  He can be unkind, and is likely even more so to himself.  He is a carpenter and contractor - works with his hands and his body.  He's strong, was a fighter - karate and jiu jitsu and MMA - and is an outdoorsman (this is the man you want to be with if we ever need to survive in the wild).  He tends to see people's weaknesses easily, or just focuses on that, he can be negative.  He's a "man's man," is very much a loner, lacks manners, has a very rural mindset (lives within 20 miles of where he grew up, and from the farm his great grandparents worked when they came to the US generations ago), hates books and cities and city people, comes across as having no feelings whatsoever, doesn't want to rely on anyone or want anyone relying on him - obsessed with independence and his idea of strength.  (Also, we have the stress of raising a child together in a household in which we both work.)  These two men could not be more different - I think the only things they have in common is that they're both male, both physically strong, and both my partner.

So the differences in my relationships have FAR LESS to do with me, widowhood, new phases in life, and a lot to do with the extreme difference in the kind of men I'm with.  I've actually been surprised by how unchanged I am in my approach to relationships and what I value.  I'm nearly completely unchanged in what I want (passion, intensity, closeness, depth).  The problem is that what I want was almost exactly what DH and I had.  I love my boyfriend (so much, way too much), but it is hard being with someone who is so self-contained and not into connection/emotional intimacy.  I'm glad we're together and don't regret it, but can certainly acknowledge that my life would be easier and happier had I made slower decisions about coupling and partners.  I was really excited because I didn't think I'd ever have feelings for anyone again, and then suddenly I had very intense feelings for my boyfriend.  Then, though my doctor said I couldn't, I got pregnant. 

Do I think it's possible to be as connected with someone in the future?  I do.  But if that's not what you're seeking or if that's not how you approach relationships, then you won't be as connected as you could be.  But it depends on so many things, so many little micro-decisions about how you relate to a new person, and the nuances of that person themself.  You may share a different phase, and not have that heady obsessive young love obsession, but I think it's possible to feel very deeply loved and loving and connected.  I think Wheelerswife is exactly right that you need to be open to the idea of a very different kind of person/relationship.  I hadn't prepared myself for that, and I'm still not doing it gracefully.  My entire background/default/philosophy has to do with the great relationship DH and I had, and I need to move from accepting his death (which I have done) to accepting that our relationship was unique and extraordinary and won't be replicated, and that that is ok, that it's not the only way to be happy.  I thought if I could get well-adjusted to his death, I was ready for another big relationship.  But it's more than that.  I need to stop seeing everything through the context of my relationship with DH.  That's my challenge. 

You talk about something, Milojka, that I can relate to - moving from this deep connectedness on so many levels that we shared with our lost loves, to a more simplistic view of relationships - sharing life and times and being good to one another.  I think there is something to that.  I am trying to love what my boyfriend and I share, without wishing for some inexplicable mystical romantic obsessive thing that, quite frankly, is no longer appropriate for my life anyway! 

Ok, this is ridiculously long so I'll stop.  I'm not sure I answered your question or ever got to the point I was intending to make, or even what that point was....
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 12:08:16 PM by Mizpah »
widowed 2011 (DH 28)

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2016, 06:17:58 AM »
Dear Mizpah and Maureen,
First of all let me thank you very much for your replies. They were interesting and helpful. Mizpah, no your message wasn't ridiculously long - it was more than I could wish for and it did answer some questions I had.

Maureen you say that having another deep connection is possible. But I don't think that I can bring myself to that. I feel like I possibly don't want that anymore.

Mizpah you havent changed in what you want from a relationship. Yet your boyfriend couldn't be more different from your DH. That was fascinating to read. You definitely have a completely different lifestyle now.

I loved where you say :
###
 I thought if I could get well-adjusted to his death, I was ready for another big relationship.  But it's more than that.  I need to stop seeing everything through the context ofmy relationship with DH.  That's my challenge.  ###
I can relate to that.

Yes you are right - I was talking about that feeling I have about wanting a simple, beautiful relationship. Kindness is all I ask for now.

There is a man on the island. He has sheep and I have worked with him many times. I have seen him around daily since 6 months and we have often made a chat. He is clearly interested in me. All islanders speak highly of him, with great respect. He is so kind, and gentil, and sweet. He has a beautiful smile and is a bit shy. He is my age and a bachelor - often the case on remote islands like this. I like his skilled way of driving dozins of sheep from hill to hill, I like his way of treating his 4 sheepdogs and how they adore him.

I absolutely love how he takes care of me. His kindness for me moves me. His loneliness is obvious - as mine is probably too. I can see myself as his partner, trying to make him happy, taking care of him as he does for me.

Simple, beautiful, pure, peaceful.

My dh was an intelletual, a thinker, as yours was, Mizpah. And that man on the island is not. He is a doer. He spends every day and evening outside. He knows every bird and plant. He can read the weather. But he doesn't read books.

Above all he is kind, and cares for me, in a beautiful quiet way. I don't want to stay alone, but I don't want to go where I was with my DH.

Does that make sense?

Trying

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2016, 07:30:12 AM »
My chapter 2 and DH share some core similarities but are also different in many ways as is the relationship we have.  Part of it is my age and what I need and want now, at 47, is very different than what I wanted at 19 when I met DH.  DH was very career driven, wanted to be successful and measured success by his financial earnings.  He loved to accumulate things, and to share them with friends and family.  He was bigger than life, incredibly generous with his time, talents and money.  He was not afraid of hard manual work and pitched in any where he could despite being white collar guy.  His drive and type A personality were something I loved about him but also left me feeling neglected often. 

New guy is a blue collar guy, has very basic needs when it comes to material things and is not impressed by or envious of those who have more.  He values hard work but likes to leave it behind at the end of the day.  He wants to spend time with me, compliments me regularly, respects my opinion.  Like DH he is blunt and honest with his opinions, sarcastic and funny, a great Dad. 

DH was the right man to build a life and a family with.  We grew into adults together and my role was primarily to support his career, take care of our home and our children, entertain family and friends.  I was very happy in that role, I loved being a wife and a mom, volunteering and working part time.  Our relationship would've continued to evolve as our kids grew up, I looked forward to a day when there would be more time to focus on the two of us. 

That life was taken from me when DH died and I can't go back there.  I was forced to be completely independent for the first time in my adult life, to be in charge and make all of the decisions.  My kids are growing up so my mom role is changing because their needs have changed and because I am now filling the job of 2 parents.  What I need now who is someone who will stand beside me, someone who will support me and my career goals, someone who wants to spend time with me, someone who wants to take care of me and who will let me take care of him.  NG meets my needs for where I am now. 

I guess this is my long winded way of saying that my experience tells me that it is possible to find love and partnership again.  It should be viewed as separate and distinct from chapter 1, not a replacement, but something unique and new to meet whatever your needs are now.  I will never again share the history of a life together from age 19-44, growing up, having children together, so no relationship can compare to that. 
You will forever be my always.

Mizpah

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2016, 08:18:18 AM »

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense, and I think it's lovely. 

He sounds like a perfect man for this part of your life, place and time. 

 
widowed 2011 (DH 28)

MrsT85

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2016, 02:05:44 PM »
Mizpah, do you allow me to ask you a question?
You said your first husband and you were inseperatable. You seem to have had a good and strong relationship. That is exactly what happened between my deceased husband and me.

I understand the bond you have with your second husband will be different, but can I ask you in what way it is different? I think that it is impossible to be as connected with someone in the future as I was with my deceased soulmate. Do you agree with that, is that the case with you as well?

....

My husband was very intelligent, intellectual, witty. We talked a lot between the two, shared our thoughts on all kinds of topics and levels. Currently I like to think that yes, it will be possible for me to once have a new boyfriend, but without that very strong connectedness I once had. That new person could be just a companion, some one who takes care of me and who I can take care of.
Someone who would help me and I would help him when needed. Without the strong connection on many levels that I used to have. Just a simple, beautiful, respectful being together, growing old together.

I suppose how it could go is that the many things I found in my husband will have to be divided over several people - friends. I have a special female friend who callenges me intellectually and we have great conversations. Another female friend helps me with the vague plans I have with my new career in textiles. I have another friend who lost her son and we support eachother when we have it rough. From someone else I get practical help.

I can see that another person could be my companion in life. He wouldn't necessarily meet my intellectual needs. He wouldn't neccessarily have to talk about grieving or about how to lay out my new future careerwise. We would be companions who look after eachother and care for eachother. We would tell how are days went. We would sleep together and wake up together.
 

I may be an odd duck here, but this is how I've felt basically the entire time I've been widowed.  I started dating Tim when I was just 19 - still a kid, really.  We married when I was 23 and he died when I was 27.  I cannot think of a single interest either of us had that wasn't shared - we pretty much had the exact same taste in music, movies, books.  Politically, ethically, religiously (or total lack thereof) - we were on the same page.  He was also an avid reader, incredibly smart and articulate, and was just weeks from finishing his teaching degree (he wanted to be a high school history teacher, had finished his history major and was in the final three weeks of his student teaching) when he crashed.  We could and did talk for hours every day, and would smile when we discussed how much we were looking forward to growing old together...We never had the chance to have a child, but we would fantasize about being retired empty-nesters and getting to enjoy each others' company without work or school getting in the way.  We knew how lucky we were to have found each other - this wonderful person we could never get bored with - and would talk about it all the time. 

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that I became an adult as his partner.  I was in my first year of college when we met, so his fingerprints are all over the person I've now grown into.  No one it going to "fit" me as perfectly as Tim did because no one else was the most important influence on during that extremely formative period of my life.  That's no one's fault, I think it's just reality. 

I'm getting remarried at the end of next month.  My fiance is an extremely decent and caring man.  I enjoy taking care of him (one of my favorite times of the week is when I get to show him all of the favorites foods of his I've bought at the grocery store) and he seems to enjoy being there for me as well (he must - he asked me to marry him!).  We respect each other intellectually, but our interests don't line up nearly as well as Tim and I did.  He's also far more physical than Tim was - he worked with battieries for industrial purposes when we first met, and he's now working for Tim's best friend doing safety testing for electronics at a huge international company.  But while our passions are different, our values are similar.  We both crave companionship (although not the constant companionship that Tim and I shared), we both would like to start a family, we share the same worldview politically and ethically. 

Am I as happy as I was when I found who I knew what my perfect match?  No, but after losing Tim I'm not sure that it's even possible for me anymore.  But I'm reasonably happy most of the time, and I'm building a good life with a person who I love who loves me back. 
Do You Realize - that you have the most beautiful face

Do You Realize??

01/12/1977-04/06/2013

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2016, 12:27:00 PM »
Thank you so much for these stories, I like reading them.

It is amazing how everyones second guy turns out to be completely different. Which ofcourse makes sense - somehow it wouldn't be right to have a copy of our lost love. We have changed too. And as was pointed out by MrsT85, we are older now.

MrsT85, the kind relationship of relationship you had seemed very similar to the one I had.
And these words could have been written by me:
###
so his fingerprints are all over the person I've now grown into.  No one it going to "fit" me as perfectly as Tim did because no one else was the most important influence on during that extremely formative period of my life. 
###

Building a good life with someone who loves me back: yes. That is what I want too. That is enough.

canadiangirl

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2016, 08:33:25 AM »
Milojka, thank you for sharing your story.  From your words, I have this most amazing vision of your life, and the peacefulness after the rupture of such a loss is an inspiration.  I cannot run away due to childcare responsibilities that I am glad to have but when my child is grown...I am already making plans.

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2016, 03:34:55 PM »
Thank you Canadiangirl.

Good to read that you have plans. When the time is there, just do it. Because really anything is possible. You just have to do it.

These were my secret weapons I have used daily on the island so I would survive the unbearable pain caused by losing him:
1. Doing hard physical labour so my body gets tired everyday
2. Looking for and finding beauty everyday.
3. Spending the day under an open sky everyday.
4. Laughing out loud everyday
5. Feeling the love from people around me everyday.
This gives a good idea how my life looks like. I still stick to this list, though I feel better now.

It is a good life I have now. I wouldn't want to change it. It is the best possible life without him.











Taurus

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2016, 05:52:41 PM »
Thank you so much for these stories, I like reading them.

It is amazing how everyones second guy turns out to be completely different. Which ofcourse makes sense - somehow it wouldn't be right to have a copy of our lost love. We have changed too. And as was pointed out by MrsT85, we are older now.
...

Our departed loves will always be the originals against whom no new partner can compare. At this stage of my journey without my beloved, I'm a spectator watching others and reminiscing about my wife from the many reminders I see day in day out. I'm not the least bit interested in any new relationship as I still have my relationship with my beloved in my memories.

Maybe in a few years' time. And when I do, I will not consciously look for a replica of my beloved. It will have to be someone with whom I can connect with her own personality, attitudes, laughter...

But I'm in no hurry.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 06:28:37 PM by Taurus »

Adley

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2017, 08:48:42 AM »
To Milojka and everyone else who posted here, this has left me breathless and inspired. Thank you, Milojka, for building this beautiful post and your beautiful world. I have some things I can't wait to share, but I have to tend my goat herd and go shoe some horses. I'll be back. Thank you all, I am really touched.
Here's to my pretty young wife     sleepin amongst the stars           now they say what's hers is mine but I know what's ours is ours

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2017, 09:53:44 AM »
Hi Adley
Yes, please do tell us how you are doing. It might be useful for me, I might need it.
The previous posts were written more than half a year a go. Meanwhile, I have crossed the 2 year aniversary. Things feel different now, but not better. I am wondering if other people can relate to this: for the first 2 years I was fighting hard everyday to survive his departure. Which I did. But now... I now have to learn how to deal with his lifelong absence. Does any one recognize this? It isn't easier. Lifelong is ...long.

I am not doing well since the build up to his 2nd dead aniversary, which was end of November. Also the so called festive month of December was dark as ink. I am still struggling now, in January.

I started studying at the textile college in September but quit after the first module because it was very disapointing. This took away my purpose for the next years, my reason to get up in the morning, a path to follow. I am still doing sheepwork and I still love it. But it is at this moment difficult to find an official job - which I need - currently I work at a crabfactory until I find something better. As a labourer, I can tell you that it is not the nicest of jobs.  I moved out from my friends, I thought I was ready for that, and it was hard at the beginning to live on my own - no one asking about my day, no hug, no teasing or laughs, no meals together. I am used to it now but it was harder than I expected. Things went wrong with the man with the sheep - of course they did. He isn't used to contact with humans and reads signals completely wrong. I do not blame him, but being together was no option.

So... having a hard time right now, and missing my other half contineously. However I am sure things will get better with the daylight that soon will come back - we have hardly seen any of that in the past months. There will be a nice job somewhere where I can make a difference. My friends haven't stopped loving me. The skies, the hills, the wind, the animals are wonderfull as ever. I still see no reason to go from here - and I wouldn't know whereto. I still aspire to have a simple, quiet and beautiful life. This is a good place for that.

There has been an important positive change - I could never watch pictures of him because it hurted so much but since a couple of weeks I can. I like that :-)

I am looking forward to hearing from you.




Kater

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2017, 01:28:21 PM »
Oh my.  The fact that there were new posts added to this topic that brought it to the list of "Unread" posts today is a co-incidence I needed.  I just finished meeting with my boss and requested a one year leave from work (after this term ends in April).  I haven't really nailed down yet what I want to do with the year.  I have some ideas, but up until an hour ago, they were just that.  Now that I have the OK at work, I need to transform some ideas into plans.  I've talked to many people about my idea for a year off.  They all express how exciting it is.  Frankly, I am not really excited at all.  It just feels like what I need to do to figure out this life that is in front of me.  A life that I don't really want; that isn't a result of any actions or choices I have made.  A life that was dropped in my lap.  So now to figure out what to do with it.

I am slightly terrified.  Worried a bit about money (I've been asked a few times if I can afford it....wouldn't be thinking about it if I couldn't).  Wondering how it will feel to be venturing out on my own without S beside me. 

Well, as scary, or exciting, or whatever it may be, the trigger has been pulled, so here I go.

Thanks for some inspiration, Milojka. 

Kate



   

Milojka

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Re: Radical changes - leaving everything behind
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2017, 04:37:34 PM »
Hi Kate,

Well that is good news. I wish you all the best. Let us know what you have decided.

Don't be scared... Ask yourself the question: what is the worst possible thing that can happen? What do you have to lose?
The worst thing has happened already. You have lost the most precious already.

I also want to say that I spent very little money. In the very beginning I worked for bed and board. Later I worked for money, and paid part of that to the people who rented me a spare room.  At the moment I earn enough to pay a (very small) house.
Offcourse one of the things that I craved doing, was working very hard - not sure if that is what you want - with my hands. So no wonder that I didn't spend much money.
And there are not many shops and hotels in the remote rural area where I am anyway :-)

This self composed life that I lead since 1 year and 8 months, a menu with my very favorite things, was my attempt to make life worth living again, even without him.
I really hope it will be good for you as well, and that it will give direction and meaning to your life.






« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 05:10:03 PM by Milojka »