THATgurl

Thank you wife less. Much love to y'all

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I'll be right here, Mikey

Go berzerk

To m Totally kidding. Miss and love this community. Sorry to see we are one soul down currently. Hopefully that will right itself. I say this first to myself and then to those I greatly respect and admire (and sometimes want to clean the floor with) - being right is all well and good (usually) but sometimes an illusion or based on situation and circumstance. In other words, timing and presentation can be m-effing everything.

Again, Torn, I think it would be good if you would reach out to someone in your local community about your living situation. If you are unsure who to contact, I am happy to try to help you figure that out through private messages. If the situation is indeed abusive or bordering on volatile, you need help. If you need help, it is really important to take the first steps toward getting that help. I am also not quite sure what the exact problem is with the recent situation, but it is clearly distressing for you. I am sorry you are experiencing that. Wishing you peace and comfort throughout the holidays.

Torn, I am so sorry you are going through all of this - what a difficult situation. If possible, I would like to chat with you a bit in private messages to see if a bit more information about yourself and your family allows me to offer some type of advice or words of support. Please send me a PM if you feel comfortable doing so. Thanks and peace to you.

Sorry, all (serpico included!) - I obviously have some hangups and issues about terminology based on my (and many of my young wid friends') complicated situation (example: in my State, DH was on my insurance based on our legal status and I was allowed to make medical decisions, but I wasn't allowed to take him off of my medical insurance or to get his medical records to prove that he was dead so he could be off my insurance, because we weren't married - dealing with the logistical aftermath of his death was absurd and nightmarish, and felt like several slaps in the face when I could least handle them). I'm clearly a bit oversensitive to this (still, 4 1/2 years later!) and that's no one's fault here, and I'm sorry for inflicting it on you! Carry on. I'll be chill, I promise. Personally, I don't think you are oversensitive at all. I probably worded my thoughts poorly. I know you went through some very rough stuff and I am so sorry that happens to you or anyone. Over my years chatting with widdas, the "who is a widow" conversation never goes well and, for this group, likely leads to loss of some members and less frequent posting from others. I personally think the reason it goes so poorly is that people tend to come at the issue from one of three perspectives (though they blur to some extent) - religious, legal, and societal recognition type things. My personal opinion is that people are entitled to their own personal beliefs in terms of religion and if a group has diverse membership, that reality should be respected within the group. Of course, not everyone agrees with me there. On the legal side of things it can all just be a huge mess and I believe lots of reform is needed. In terms of societal recognition type stuff - another big mess, but I am not really sure why either of Kim K's marriages should be regarded as having more worth or value than Goldie Hawn's long-term, committed relationship.

I would like to clarify that I should have said I am not a fan of marriage FOR MYSELF. This does not and did not impact my ability to commit for the long haul nor does it lessen the worth, value, or meaning of my relationship. A good example of what I am talking about is Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russel who have been together for over 30 years. I very much respect people who have a different view on that and who place great importance on a marriage ceremony and vows for themselves. I expect the same in return in a civil and mutually supportive conversation. To clarify again - the legal and dictionary definition of a widow/er is someone who has lost a spouse. Two people can become spouses without any type of marriage ceremony or exchange of vows. Interestingly, even in the United States things that would make people spouses in one jurisdiction might not in another jurisdiction (eg common law marriage). Restricting the use of the term widow/er to those who have had a marriage ceremony in which they exchange vows is no more in line with the legal and dictionary definitions than extending the use of the term to include those who don't meet the criteria to be legally classified as widow/ers. I totally agree that we should not be attempting to one up each other in terms of whose grief is worse - it is all just terrible. I also really wish we didn't get caught up in discussions of who should be called a widow/er. I think the community consensus in recent history is that this is a group for "widdas" and that people are not just tolerated as long as they know their place sort of thing, but rather are accepted as full members of the community with equal worth and value.

Listening to this beautiful album and thought this would be fitting here. May well bring tears. Stop all the Clocks - Nemo Shaw

imissdow my thoughts are with you on this and I hope you find a path to peace with it all soon. While we come from very different places in terms of belief, I would just like to second the recommendations for the first two books mentioned - Why Bad Things Happen to Good People and Wherever You Go, There You Are (I have not read the other books mentioned). I approach reading these types of books with the thought that I can embrace and incorporate any parts that fit with my beliefs into my life. What doesn't work for me, I read with more detached interest. Both books were really beneficial for me personally.

Tragic news for Ms. Dockery and all their loved ones. Always sad to see another so young join our ranks. My thoughts go out to Ms. Dockery tonight on her 34 birthday as she prepares to lay her love to rest tomorrow. May the holidays go gently for the families.

Hey y'all - quoting myself from another fun time the group had this conversation fairly recently with very minor editing. I know it can be very hard to do in times of deep sadness and grief, but please try to remember that we don't have to give random strangers on the internet the power to tear us down. No one is going to turn back (or speed up for that matter) the hands of time or societal evolution by trying to impose their own thoughts and beliefs on everyone in a widow/er support group. MOST MEMBERS of this group will respond to posts made by people who identify themselves as widowed with kindness and respect despite any differences they may have. Some won't for some reason. I feel sorry for them. Happy Holidays and Frohe Weihnachten (happy blessed or holy nights)

This is such great news - huge congrats Maddalena and best wishes for years of happiness. Nice to hear from you as well.