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Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...


arneal
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I'm sorry but at this point in the relationship, I think after this many times of telling him you are allergic to lilies. Then it is a silent show of disrespect to you to show you where you stand with him, and to show you what you mean to him!  If it were me, I would CLEARLY tell him that this is no longer acceptable. We get what we allow and accept! Just saying....

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Happy Friday, all!

 

sdnlysngl's reply above got me thinking about relationship ruts. I often wonder if, especially for those who had good relationships with their LHs and LWs, if it is easier to fall into a place of 'comfort' ... I mean, it is true that we will keep getting what we allow, right? I can't say that's where I was with LH since his illnesses sort of kept me in a place of having my head down and persevering through his doctor's appointments, hospitalizations, and needs at home. It was more of a 'had to' than a 'comfortable doing', if that makes sense. With BF, I think God is challenging me to step out of my rut in a way. I was never one to try and be creative in relationship but now find myself trying to do it more often. This relationship has challenged me to 'want' to do things so I make more suggestions. However, I am thinking about how to rephrase my suggestions so BF takes a more active role in planning; his job is stressful, along with the aftermath of the blowup with his daughter back in February; he doesn't often make suggestions on things we can do together that are date-like. For now, I'm thinking I'll ask more questions like 'I saw this thing for Saturday; what do you think?'. I am a home-body by nature so I certainly as sudnlysngl suggested am getting what I allow, but it would be nice to do something different once in a while that isn't of my making :)

 

Sorry for the ramble -- hope everyone is doing well and has a fabulous weekend!

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Thanks all - sigh ..... I truly believe that he's not trying to be disrespectful to me, if I had the slightest hint of passive aggressiveness or some kind of manipulation on his part I would say goodbye.  As for his gift of lilies yet again showing a silent disrespect and showing where I stand with him, his words and actions say otherwise in so many ways. 

For whatever reason (in a rut on buying just lilies? 😕) he just doesn't hear me on the flowers thing.  He hears me loud and clear on other issues that we're working on, and the relationship is moving forward in a good positive way.  At least in most areas BUT the flowers thing.  I can't help but think that on the spectrum of relationship problems, this is an annoyance and not a major problem.  I will have a serious conversation with him, and see if there's a bigger issue behind all of this.  

 

Happy Weekend!

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Vacation over with NG and his boys.  Still not home as a wedding today to attend that was on the way back.  He had to get his kids back to their mother so we drove separately. 

We made some great memories.  It was an adventurous vacation at a resort for those things.  Rappelling, rock climbing, zip lines, hiking, kayaking, a full day of white water rafting, and an extreme outdoor water park seen on travel Channel.  I made it!  I started working out in December and though the weight hasn’t lifted, my physical ability has improved.  So glad I have committed to exercising regularly.  

NG and all did well I believe.  We have some parenting challenges but I knew that.  Told him we can talk later about that so nothing extreme.  His oldest, age 10, got hurt the 2nd to last night.  He didn’t follow instructions and sprained his ankle.  He is soft and unfit (his mom got him a stationary bike 😳) So, the long water trip was not fun for him. He was in a tandem kayak so he really only had to sit with foot propped up but he cried off and on all day.  I felt sorry for him but it was the only trip left and all the others he couldn’t have done with the hiking and such.  He has been in counseling two yrs. NG thinks it is “mother” created.  Maybe, but there is more to this kid.  I hold my tongue.  When he wants my professional opinion,  I’ll give it. 

 

My kid did  well with them all.  NG has said he appreciates my kid and his management with his younger boys.  We laughed, played board games at night, so lots of things they haven’t done per them.  NG sometimes describes my kid as “peter perfect “.  Yeah, he is a pleaser but so was I so whatever.  He cops the teen attitude with me so he is just like most teens. 

 

We had a great time.  I am glad to be in a hotel today, though.  Camping is cool but I like my soft accommodations.  Son and I were in a cabin, and they stayed in a tent.  I was with 4 males  so ready to be girly.   Happy trip😊

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Happy mid-week everyone! So a new weird thing ... I mention BF in conversations with (some) family and friends; they usually ask me how he's doing and will often say things like 'tell him I said hi'. I have only done so when it's my mom or my son, since he's talked to each of them (and has met my son). Every now and again I will tell him my one friend, who is connected to him on social media, said hi. He's never been weird about it or acted like it's a thing, but I feel weird telling him hi from people he's had no contact with whatsoever. I think it's because he doesn't have many people in his life that he communicates with regularly, so I don't want to bring attention to that. Sigh.

 

On a totally separate note, I mentioned that I was going to try my best not to make the plans for the weekend. Before I could even think to do so, he suggested going to the movies :) We went after I got back from church on Sunday. It was a good change.

Edited by arneal
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Ok, back to regular time with NG and his kids.  Every other week until school starts, and Grandma flying in to take care of them while he works.  Custody hearing in 3 weeks😳

 

NG is under lots of stress, and I am in it, now.  I am trying to not make it worse.  Talked more about our future. He says two years is more than enough time to decide to be together long term or not.  Marriage is in the conversation.  I have the friend that will marry us but without going to the court house and do a legal contract.  But, MY GUY is Mr. Logic. So, in a conversation after church last Sunday when I asked him some thoughts about his life choices and following God's plan, not his own, he shared.  And then told me I am very evasive with him, wanting to know his thoughts but tend to keep my thoughts to myself.  

 

So, I shared two nights later.  I wanted to email it but he preferred talking.  I told him my thoughts of us marrying and what I wanted.  And what I needed to happen.  I have decided I can give up my benefits from late husband and survive with him, and he has advantages I can take on if married.  And that I need to wait as I will have my mother's estate and farm sold in the next yr. and I don't want to tangle it up with a legal marriage.  I requested a prenup as I have my son's needs and inheritance to consider, and he has his two sons.  He has his ex who I have to consider in my financial plans.  If he were widowed, it would likely be a different plan.  And  if our children were of age and self sufficient, which they are not. All very thought out and not romantic at all, but logical.  He said as much, and he understood.  My brothers and I are selling the farm to a federal conservation group, so it will maintain the natural springs, caves, and water supply that dumps into the mighty Mississippi.  My father and mother would be happy to have that, not sell it for more subdivisions which we could.  So, federal stuff is a big deal and need to wait.  

 

NG seems a bit distant now.  Could be my perception?  Could be he is so involved with getting ready for court?  IDK.  Recoupling is difficult, no matter which way you go......

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tybec   Those are serious conversations that you've had, good to get all of that out there and to let sink in.  We're at the stage in life where logic and common sense need to take precedence over romance, at least in some areas.  You spelled out pretty much what I would want to say to my BF someday, altho I'm nowhere close to talking about marriage or co-habitating yet.  Two years is enough time to decide to move forward or not , and it's good that you're hashing out the details to move forward.   As for him being distant - maybe you're both letting the new reality settle and sink in a bit, a good thing I think.  

 

BF finally met my mom last night, it was a long overdue get together that finally happened and everything went well.  He asked me if he should wear long sleeves to cover his well tatted arms - I said do whatever you'd like as I think that she will be accepting.  And thankfully she was, the tats were not mentioned at all.  BF and I are coming up on a year and half together - as tybec's post mentions it's time to think about deciding to stay together long term or not.  I do love him, whether this is my forever relationship, it makes me anxious that I still don't know.  Flower update - seems that BF finally gets it, he brought me an arrangement without lilies!  😁   We had a conversation about my favorite flower - calla lilies - vs. the ones that he was bringing - stargazers, and the difference between the two.  Glad to get that settled and move on, it was getting pretty annoying.

 

Happy Weekend all ~

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tybec -- what a wonderful and tough spot, those difficult conversations. I would say that no matter how old we are when we recouple, there's still as my 'adopted' little brother says the junior high moments. The blushy moments of new love often overtake the need for reality 😍 However, once we get to a certain age or stage in life, it's necessary to buck up and get to it.

 

trying2 -- ah, lilies versus calla lilies ... that could cause confusion if you aren't well-versed in flowers (which would be me -- if it's not a violet or a rose, I'm lost). 😅

 

It's almost six months since BF and I have been under the same roof, hard to believe. No serious conversations about future but we have those dream conversations ... he told me if he wins the lottery and buys his dream property, which will be out in the middle of nowhere, I say 'As long as it has a round room for me, I'm good with that'; he says 'How will you get there?' (really out in the middle of nowhere) and as we talk that out, he says 'Are you good with getting a helicopter license?' We talk that out for a minute and he says he'd buy me my own helicopter 😂 That's how two old folks who play video games talk about their future together!

 

Have a good week!

 

 

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Oh Arneal!  That sounds wonderful!  NG traveled  Europe extensively in his 20s and 30s and took many cruises and tells me he will take me there one day, something I planned but never did with careers and life and having a child.  It is awesome and YEARs from reality.  We both had kids late  in life.  Hope to be able to do some of that some day.  We can dream! 

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2 hours ago, arneal said:

Agreed, tybec. I tend to be quite literal and I listen to words intently. He uses 'I' often and doesn't use 'we' at all. Yet, his actions are full of 'we' ... 

I would take the actions any day arneal! How's that saying go? Actions speak louder than words!!! 😊 It means a whole lot when a man will take the time to show his woman with actions...

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That is so true, sudnly. He is an amazing man and I try to show him that sentiment as best I can. I am wondering what he will say today; I saw via USPS notification my mom sent him a card. She sent one for his birthday and put a couple of scratch off tickets in it. There were two winners but they weren't from our state so he couldn't cash them. I sent them back in a thank you card that he signed and I suspect she's sent a check or cash in return since the gift was supposed to be for his birthday 😅

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Reading about the we vs. I issue.   Last night while at the market together, BF bought megamillion lottery tickets - he bought two and without saying anything put them in his wallet.  In the past, we talked about what we'd do together with the winnings.   Hmmm - he said nothing of sharing so after his purchase I went ahead and bought my own.  I realize the likelihood of winning is slim to none - yet the sentiment behind sharing winnings is kind of sweet to talk about.  This stupid issue is pulling me into a funk about our relationship.  I'm usually not this sensitive -  the five year sadiversary is next week and I think I'm already feeling sad about it.   Wish I could pull myself out of this ..... 😔

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Oh, trying2 ... {{{hugs}}} on your sadiversary. I was thinking of my LH earlier today, how strange the world is in general. It amazes me that we were together for nearly 16 years, had been through so much over that time, particularly with his health. It amazes me that I am now in this house and another man sleeps in the space he inhabited, has clothes, personal products, and other belongings in drawers his things were in. It amazes me that BF has in these last few months of us being under the same roof tackled projects in this house that LH couldn't over the course of five years. I think about the conversations LH and I had and conversations I've had with my mom about moving on after the death of a spouse; I wonder what LH would think about how much more free I am (even in my weird and often uptight way lol) with BF than I was with him. I look at his photo, which is in the front room and wonder what he thinks when BF picks up one of his instruments that are now decorations around the house. I would hope he is proud. I can't describe my feelings ... I am not sad when I think of him, at least in the sense of not being with him anymore. I am sad he suffered, which I know he did even though he never complained much. I don't talk about him that often but will mention him occasionally when BF and I are talking about things. I can even talk about my son's dad sometimes without that feeling of panic I used to get (abuse will do that, even years later ... talk about PTSD ...). 

 

My newest planned conversation is to suggest a trip back east next year for my birthday. My mom asked me if I would come that way instead of her trying to come here (again, health issues intervene; she is on dialysis and even though there are several centers that are part of the same system near me and near the airport, she has had friends at her center who got very sick while traveling. It made her uncomfortable and worried, which means she shouldn't do it if she's not settled that all will be well). BF has talked about visiting his sister, so it seems like a good thing to try for. He already said what he thought we should do for each other for Christmas, so it isn't a leap to consider :) Maybe this weekend I will bring it up ...

 

Have a good day, everyone! Catch us up when you have a minute!

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So I've met NG's beloved grandmother and sister. Sterling reports from what I can gather. I'm not the type to ask honestly. Just need to meet his mother yet and the kids. He's been actually discussing me with his kids more and interjecting me in conversation so hopefully we can try before school starts up. My girls talk him up but are still too shy to engage him in one on one conversation. They will warm up. It takes time to get over that anxiety. They like him though because he makes me happy and is good to me.

 

NG has an outpatient procedure today and is nervous. He decided to let his mom drive him and hang out with him today. He's afraid of he will lose his pride and man card in case recovery is hard and I'm actually there. I was honest and told him that was why I didn't have him come over when I was recovering from my hysterectomy. No sane person wants to be seen at their worst and most vulnerable in this stage of their relationship! We'll see how he feels this weekend. 

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Well, it is the weekend. I am leaving town. My son needs to see his granny as he is a marching band kid (all new stuff for me), and he will be busy for the next few months almost every weekend. 😳 She is in poor health , and she moved back to family when I moved .  She has lots of support, but my dear son is her only grandchild.   Just a review, I moved to the town where I had to place my mother in a dementia unit as we did not have one.  And her money followed as she was already in their system but that level of care was not available where we lived.  Happened to be the same town NG lived in, Yeah!  And my mother had an illness 2 months in, and it left her heart damaged and then hospice.  She passed in Nov. 2017 just short of turning 89.

 

So, NG delivered his kids to their mom yesterday.  His mother leaves today. I decided to leave town to get some clarity.  I don't know if he even understands that, but maybe he does not need to.  He reverted to his past behavior this past week. Little to no contact with me.  Call me in the am on his way to work.  That was about it.  WE did get together with the kids to swim two nights for about an hour, so there was that.  He goes to court in Aug.  I am meeting with him and his attorney next week.  He did make sure to communicate this need.

 

I am hurt. AND tired of the routine.  And I am trying to not cause issues as he is so preoccupied with the court  and stressed out.  Thus, I am leaving town.  I am going to try to get passed the court stuff and just see where things lie.  I am protecting my heart.  The man is the best father. He has moved mountains for his children.  He stops everything to skype nightly with them, and that has been on dates, out of town, anywhere we were.  He loves his boys so much.  And, I don't have him showing me that attention or care.  Maybe I am not the right woman for him. Maybe he would do so with the right woman.  Maybe he doesn't know how to be in a committed relationship and show love consistently to an adult AND his children.  I am not asking him to choose. That is not an option. I don't ask for gifts, I pay my way mostly now for everything, I don't ask  him to do things for me as I am independent.   I don't think I am over bearing.  I think I try well.  I would like texts good night. A phone call at night when the kids go to sleep.  A message that he misses me when he is with his children even though he loves them dearly.  A  quick kiss goodbye when we do see each other with our kids.  We have talked about this.  He listens, does better a while, sometimes is sarcastic with it, and then reverts back.

I hope I don't sound nagging, but maybe I am . I just didn't experience this with my husband.  He was affectionate and available.  And I knew he was going to be there for me.  Always.  

 

Okay.  Breathe. Thanks for listening. 

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Aww Tybec…. vent away! The things you want are normal. There is nothing wrong with showing affection in front of kids, otherwise how do they learn about it or how to show it? I'm not saying throw each other down on the floor stuff, but you know what I mean , a kiss or a hug.

But if you have had several discussions about your feelings and he hears you enough to change for a day or two then goes back to his ways, then reconsider  that you may not be the one for him. He is not loving you enough to respect your feelings at all! Just saying...

Enjoy your break from it all, get some clarity, and some rest and relaxation. (((hugs)))

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hugs, tybec    Hope you had a good getaway, so important to take time to sort through stuff and get a fresher perspective.   Undoubtedly his stress level is super high as the court date approaches, hard to put this out there but maybe it's not the best time to critique his seemingly non-caring attitude towards you.  It's a huge plus that he's a wonderful father - and there is no comparison in the love of a parent vs. the love of a life partner.  I would be hurt and tired of the routine too.  You're not nagging, you've given him a roadmap and he's not following it. Maybe he doesn't know how to have a committed relationship and show love consistently to you and his children - Right Now.  Is his current behavior a sign of things to come or an outlier due to the current stressful situation?  Only time will tell .......

 

I have some similar feelings as you, somewhat content in a relationship but not completely happy.  I've not yet talked to him about what I consider to be a continued disconnect in our relationship, wondering whether my feelings coincide with the 5 year anniversary of DH's death this Wednesday.  Seems that the sadiversarys affect me more than I know, the last time I felt this disconnected with him it coincided with what would have been my 25 year anniversary with DH.   I'm emotional and super-sensitive about what I perceive to be his uncaring attitude towards me.  I plan to lay low this week and not see him, don't feel like talking about this with him because I don't know what to say and may regret later what I would say.  It would be nice to get away but I don't have that opportunity with my son arriving home in a few days.  Not sure if this will pass, I'll wait for the cobwebs to clear and see how to move forward.

 

Breathe, yes ......    

 

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Tybec - No wonder you are frustrated and I'm happy to read you are taking a break. I imagine with the upcoming court custody date that he is treading  carefully with his relationship with you (and I'm sure his lawyer has advised him to do the same). I bet he is also very pre-occupied with the court date. I have experienced a bit of what you are going through in my Chapter 2 - and it doesn't feel good, especially when we "had it all" with our late spouses.  It is wonderful that he's a great father but his kids aren't the only ones in this new relationship - and that's not fair to you or your son. I have sympathy for divorced fathers who are trying to jointly raise their kids, don't get to spend as much time with them as they want and have to deal with difficult exes on top of it - while trying to navigate the needs of a new relationship. But I also get pissed off with it, as we widows bear the brunt of their life decisions. There has to be compromise and support for new partners, and not have the relationship completely revolve around his children and ex. I think gently setting boundaries help but now probably isn't the right time to do that. You guys may also have different needs in the relationship so maybe that is worth some exploring? Wishing you all the best - this isn't easy territory.

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Happy Monday, all:

 

Me too (to piggyback on sdnly, trying2 and CW), tybec. Hoping your getaway has been a time of refreshing.

 

I would also add that it is important each of us ensure we are in a good place, meaning that we can be content doing our own thing, even when in a relationship. I have not had a 'had it all' experience in previous marriages: first husband was abusive and died suddenly, second husband was wonderful but had several serious illnesses over time and died after complications set in; I was in survival mode and young the first go and was a caregiver first and foremost the second go. First husband was not affectionate (obviously) so I never learned what that's like. LH was more affectionate but knew I wasn't all that comfy with it, so he tended to go with my flow. Now in this relationship I feel more open than I ever imagined I could. I have my moments when I surprise myself in wanting affection :) However, because of the issues BF has had with his children and exes, he has times when he is sad or depressed. I make myself available to listen or be comforting if he needs it. Otherwise, I leave him the space to 'do him'. I have dogs, so there is always something to do around here. I like the way I wash dishes better, so I run the kitchen. I always have work to do and some nights, purposely work late. We both are gamers (playing the same game) so I do that. It is interesting to do these things in the same house as well, which adds dynamics. I volunteer, so my Saturday mornings are booked. I go to early service on Sundays. If my friends down the block ask me to look in on their dogs, I do it. When things outside regular routine come up, I say that I'm doing them. Every now and again I see what seems a look on his face (mind you, I've never done agreed to do something for or with friends when he and I already have plans) but he's never said anything and honestly, I don't give him the chance. I say it with 'finality' :) 

 

I share this to encourage you to continue doing just what you are doing, tybec -- have your life. Make it just that: your life. Hopefully it is something that he will want to be part of as he realizes you, your feelings, your experiences, and your path are valuable and should be respected as such. What you do, how you do it, and who you do it with is not something that is contingent to him -- that does not disrespect his life and needs but makes yours just as important.

 

{{{hugs}}}

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Thanks all.  I had backed off and you all confirmed that is what would be a good choice. I let him know I was giving him space to do the things he needs to do for the case, as he has a lot to organize.  Met with him and his attorney, and it actually was not too bad.  So much is about how to convince the judge who doesn't support the new law that took effect July 1.  The burden is for the father to show why it is better for his kids to have more time, and the attorney says the judge does not want research either. YEAH. The judge does not like sleepovers, which we have not had with his children. But he has slept at my house.  I hope they do not ask that.  He is Church of Christ and does not like that.  I am telling you, judges have power.

 

I had plans for dinner but they fell through, but NG said a date would be nice sometime this week, so I agreed later on.  I made lunch plans on Friday with a friend.  I ,ironically, have two things Friday night, now, and will juggle them.  Work BBQ and my son's marching band parent show and pool party.  I'll see what I can swing.  NG does not know if he has his kids this weekend yet due to the transition to the school schedule, and his ex has not confirmed with him as they do not interpret it the same way.  Yup, what they do.  

 

SO, thanks for the guidance.  Laying low, not bringing up my concerns at this time, space for him to work through, and wait it out some.  Keep busy.  I have to get motivated to my work out again. Fell off the wagon after vacation, so that will help. THANKS All!

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