Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...

[arneal]

Let's not talk about working out lol! I haven't in a long time, primarily because of pain it is too hard to recover. Gotta find something different.

[trying2breathe]

Five years tomorrow since DH died.  I plan to have a day of reflection, spend some time at the cemetery along with my daughter, do whatever feels right.  NG said to me "Oh I'm sorry, I'll leave you alone ....." when I told him my plans.  Wow, and I was kind of hoping for a warm caring response from him.   I would love opinions on this - is it too much to expect another kind of reaction from somebody that I've been seeing for a year and a half?

[RyanAmysMom]

t2b - I don't think there's a right answer, except to communicate what you feel and what you want.  I recently had my 3 yr anniversary, and my NG wanted to come along to the cemetery and I was offended.....  So......  

 

It's not wrong to want a warm caring response - but it's also an unusual, weird situation for most people, and there probably isn't a "right" answer....  

 

I wanted my "daddy day" alone with my kids so that I could feed their memories and mine, and talk freely about him, maybe ugly cry, .....  I felt that having NG around would hinder all of that.....  and it's definitely confusing for my kids to have NG around and talk about daddy.....

 

So for me, it was better to have that space for a day or two....  But if you WANT your NG around, tell him!  After a year and a half, you should have some pretty good communication avenues - use them!  

 

 

[sudnlysngl]

trying2breathe NO it's not wrong to have expected more of a loving, caring, warm response from the person YOU have been giving YOURSELF to for a year and a half. 

 

I've been asking myself why some of you are settling with some of these men you are with? I understand when they are going through something, but come on ladies, really? Letting them walk all over you like you and your feelings don't matter????? REALLY???? 

 

My dh and I both were married before each other and we  loved each other enough to show, and give each other time as well as give time to the kids! So this bullshit I keep reading has me absolutely baffled of what these guys are feeding you ladies. My dh's ex was also beyond bat shit crazy!!! I mean we had to drag her crazy  ass to court several times over her antics, but WE did it, and she finally learned her place, and he learned that I came before her because she was now an EX for a reason! That if he was going to keep running to her every whim then run back to her damn house and stay there!!!

 

She also learned my dh and I were NOT built in babysitters at her whim for just whenever she wanted either. She had to learn to stop using the kids as weapons against him, and when he quit playing the bullshit games she was dishing out, it all stopped!

 

But when I said I would NOT be a pawn of any sort in any of it, and that meant , drop off, pick up, anything, then it all stopped! So ladies, I guess I am saying if he really loves you there is enough space in his life for YOU and his kids, find your value, and YOU get what you allow them to give you..... Just saying....

 

So I will say it now, Sorry if I hurt any of your feelings but really think about what I am saying....

 

[arneal]

Yes, trying2, as RyanAmysMom said -- if you'd like your BF there for the sadiversary, tell him. Let him know that you don't want him to leave you alone at that time. If he gets weird about it, you may need to have a conversation to process more: is it that he is uncomfortable or is it more of what sudnlysngl is referring to ... that despite the time you two have been together, he doesn't know you?

 

I don't 'celebrate' (not sure what would be the best word here?) LHs death. I think it's because I know he'd want me to get on with it already ... to get on with the business of living the life he wanted for me. During his illnesses, he would often be sad that I had to be his caregiver. He hated that I had my little office space in the bedroom or that I had to help him all the time. I think he'd be glad of all that has happened in the nearly 2.5 years since he died. We don't share children so the idea of spending time in memorium doesn't fit. I am not in contact with LHs daughter, so there's that too. The first husband died when my son (who is now 23) was almost 4 years old so he only knew LH as Dad; he sometimes says he thinks about Dad when we talk on the phone and that's it. I talk about him as it fits -- sharing stories with BF sometimes in the same way he shares stories about his exes. Different circumstance of course, divorce, but we both have those relationships in the rear view.

 

That said, it's not quite so easy to set hard stops on everything. LHs ex was dreadful. As sudnly mentioned, she was one who used their daughter as a pawn quite often. I wanted to show LHs daughter that not all women were like her. As I type this, I remember a funny memory from ages ago when her dad and I were just dating, so that must have been like 15 years back: she told me something that she had done (can't recall precisely what it was ... how she had snuck out several years prior or something) and how the woman he had been dating kept it a secret. I looked her in the eye and told her I wouldn't do that because what she'd done was dangerous; my faith practice simply would not allow me because forbid it if something happened to her after doing this thing and I knew ... How would I be able to tell her dad. From that point on, whenever she would say 'Don't tell my dad', I immediately told him. He was excellent at acting like he didn't know though  When she spent some time with me after he died (she flew out here and then took his ashes back with her to be buried with his parents), she told me how much she valued my presence. She talked about how different I was from her mom and the other people she had met who her dad had dated. She was impressed because she hadn't even known he and I were dating because I was discreet, something she had not experienced before me  I share that snippet to say it's important that we, as the GF (or BF for you men reading) or next spouse, present a different image. Otherwise, the understanding that the children have of women (or men) and relationship building generally gets really screwed up because all they have is the crazy mom (or dad) as a reference point. If we lay down ultimatums that are too stringent, we become the same.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by arneal

[serpico]

5 hours ago, sudnlysngl said:

I've been asking myself why some of you are settling with some of these men you are with? I understand when they are going through something, but come on ladies, really? Letting them walk all over you like you and your feelings don't matter????? REALLY????

 

Have you considered that your less-than-optimal post-loss experience (which you have documented many times here) may be coloring your opinions on this topic?

[sudnlysngl]

Maybe it's from what they share, my experiences, and the whole shebang! Otherwise how do we get other perspectives and learn?

[trying2breathe]

Thank you for the responses - I appreciate all of you.  NG is a fixer, dealing with my unfixable widowed emotions isn't his strength - at all.  He changes the subject and reverts his attention to something that he can fix  - usually something in my house, the yard or my car.  As a mechanic by trade, it's what he does.  I don't fault him the lack of trying when I have those occasional dark widow days, it can't be easy to share life with me.  But I do hope for some recognition of what this day means.  I haven't heard from him yet today, usually he sends a sweet good morning text.  What do I hope for?  Something sweet that shows that he recognizes today, what I may be going through and that he cares.   I choose to not include him in how we spend today, and I don't know that he fully understands why I do this.  He's a good man, it is a weird situation and we're not yet in alignment on how to work together on this.

[trying2breathe]

Just got a sweet text from him, and it's enough ..... 

[arneal]

trying2: firstly, 💗. Second, you are right -- whatever our 'widow/widower issues' might be, in a sense they are unfixable in that we can't bring our deceased partners back. Can we go forward? Absolutely. In that way, they are fixable. Your BF isn't alone in not knowing how to connect with you in this space; after all, look at some of the stories around here! People say the weirdest things because of their discomfort and when people get close to us, that gets magnified. Not only do they say weird things but they act weird as well. If they have no experience in the loss of a partner (other than seeing older relatives go through it, for example) and then become intimately involved with someone who has, what to do? 

 

I remember having one of those 'I was widowed at 30 years old' conversations with the assistant pastor at a church my family used to attend. LH was on the worship team and this pastor (who was young enough to be a brother or maybe almost a son if I'd become a mom at too young an age) got on a rant about something one day and I said it. He froze in his tracks, this man who could 'turn on' his compassion at the drop of a hat. He was lost. He finally found his voice and admitted he didn't know, to which I replied with something like 'Of course not -- we've never had a reason to talk about it'. He looked at me differently from then on because the only point of reference he had was serving as a spiritual comfort to some of the older folks in that congregation or to his age mates who'd lost parents. Not someone so close to his age, who admits she was younger than he was when she lost a spouse. The things I've heard from women have in some cases been worse -- You're young, are you dating? that sort of thing at a time I wasn't even thinking about such. And then when I started dating and said so, I'd get these looks of disdain from women who adhered to that notion of 'a woman should not date for at least a year after the death of her spouse' (I still don't know where that came from ...). Hell, the women in the church I was attending when LH died were shocked to silence when I said I would live in MY house, alone; they were all holders of a cultural belief that women should not do such things and should have someone in their house with them ... preferably family, like a cousin (since I have no siblings), a church 'sister', an aunty, or someone like that. It was bizarre to me.

 

We've had conversations here about love languages. You mention BF is a fixer (mine is too); I know you are spending this day in a certain way, but maybe you can find a small project you need done ... ask BF to take care of it for you. If fixing is his love language, speak it so he knows you 'get it'. Then later, talk about it; maybe tell him

• you see him,
• you see that the way he shows he cares is to fix things and you appreciate it
• maybe then add in the way you show you care;
• explain your love language and when it is best to show it ... 
• why you didn't ask him into today -- not because you didn't think he understood or could 'do' anything or would be uncomfortable, but take the onus by saying at least for now and for the unforeseeable future, today is a day you need for YOU and that does not mean you are excluding him. 

How can we show someone a mountain who has never seen one? We show them a picture first so as not to overwhelm them. When we and they are ready, we take them to see a real mountain in person. Paint him a picture with words. Maybe one day you'll be able to take him into today with you ...

[Captains wife]

I feel at this point of our lives, many of us have baggage - whether it be divorce, widowdom etc AND we also deal with tragedy, life struggles in very different ways. Its so interesting to read how we all deal with some of these things differently. In dealing with my husband's death (i.e. a sadiversary or having a trigger day), NG wants to be there and help (and offers this) - but I want to spend time alone with my son and reflect. On his side, he wants me to be actively involved with the son related activities where the mother is also there and I am not ready for that yet. For others of you out there, I am sure the reverse would be true in terms of how you would handle it. I think, as mentioned above, understanding our different love languages is important and having some acceptance for them (with limits of course, and also asking when certain needs aren't being met!). One final thought - I continue to accept that in this stage of my life, my personal relationship is just going to look and be different than it was with prior relationships (when I was younger, no kids) and I am increasingly getting ok with this.  

[trying2breathe]

It's interesting to read the responses on how some of us deal with sadiversaries.   The week leading up to this one, I felt more strongly than the past few.  For this reason, decided to keep the circle small and didn't include NG.  Yesterday came and went, and it was okay.  A visit to the cemetery, a quiet reflective day and dinner with my daughter, all good.  There has also been a disconnect with NG the past few weeks, and it didn't feel right to include him in on anything to reminisce DH and celebrate our family life as we once knew it.  The question I ask myself is whether the disconnect with NG happens because of my widow angst, or whether there is a genuine disconnect with him.  I realize that the days leading up to the sadiversaries I become  emotional and over-sensitive. What hurts is when he backs away at those times when I'm sad.  Although it feels awkward he is trying to show care and compassion.  I remember about a year ago after we became a committed couple, he wanted to share and "celebrate" those sad days with me, visit the cemetery, make a memorial to DH,  join in on our annual participation in the Heart Walk.  His way of actively doing something, and not just quietly sitting in it.  It must be frustrating to be a fixer and not have the opportunity to fix.  I have kept him at a distance from all of it, and maybe it's time to invite him in.  More conversations to come and hopefully we can move forward from here.   

Thanks for the conversation, appreciate all of you ~ 

[arneal]

Hi all and happy pre-Friday

 

I saw this in a relationship email and thought to share in light of the recent conversation. The writer (Matthew Hussey, if you've ever watched his Youtube videos on dating) was sharing an occasion where he and the person he was dating had a disagreement. He indicates rather than working to avoid having a disagreement in the first place, figure out what to do if one happens. In his story, his GF was downloading photos from phone to computer and there was a nude one that she had sent to someone she had been dating before him. He mentions that he realizes it is irrational to feel angry about something she did with someone she dated before him, but in recognizing his own anger and realizing he couldn't get past it, he said:

 

I remember ten minutes later still being in this place where I was obsessing about it. I eventually opened up and said, “Listen, I know that I don't have a right to be angry right now but I am, and I need you to help me. I don't know how to get over this right now, I just need you to help me get over it.”

Now, the beautiful thing about this is that you are giving someone a roadmap. Many people in arguments just go into themselves and they don't give people a clue about how they can help, so they are waiting for that person to say the perfect thing. They are waiting for that person to say something that is going to solve it. But they are not actually helping them or giving them guidance.

If you can say to somebody, “Listen, I am just being sensitive right now but I need you to help me. Just be on my side and help me right now,” what you are really doing is being a great teammate. Because you are showing them how to help you overcome your feelings, you are making them a partner in getting over this situation.

 

That 'I need you to help me' works for us independent types too. I've found when I ask BF to help me with something ('hey, whatcha doing? help me bring in the groceries?') works well. It's gotten to the point now that I don't actually have to ask ... I had a small project to do in the family room; he's home from work just now and I said something this morning like, 'Oh, I really need to get that thing done' and he said he'd do it. I went on with my day and next thing I knew, he'd done it. Not saying it works all the time, but asking for help in mundane and more serious situations seems a great way to function.

[Forgottenwife]

Arneal, thank you for sharing this. My fiance is a good communicator, never jumps to anger, very open and easy to talk to. I think this specific approach will help me be even closer to him. I have silly jealous feelings once in a while and I'm going to remember this. 

 

And, happy Friday!

[arneal]

Most welcome, FW. It's weird, isn't it, how those feelings pop up. I find myself with the craziest imaginings every so often. I shake them off quickly but kick myself for having them in the first place. I suppose the root is still from carrying abuse damage from the first marriage; despite the goodness of my second marriage, I go back into self-protection mode. Not a terribly bad thing I guess but when it's weird and unfounded, ugh.

 

Yes -- happy Friday and good weekend to all!

[sudnlysngl]

3 hours ago, arneal said:

Yes -- happy Friday and good weekend to all!

😊 back at ya!

[tybec]

Hey, all.

 

Actually been a bit since I posted.  NG had custody hearing on Thursday .  It was terrible as it is continued and none of us testified after waiting all day, about 7 of us.  He is broken down and can't share the testimony with me.  I did read the notes from the therapist he requested, and she was the one to testify. It is disheartening.  She is a well known person here and worked CPS for years, investigations and such prior to becoming a therapist.  I have so many thoughts on it. She was not hired to do a custody evaluation.  I have 23 years of work experiences to her 7 in therapy, but because of who she is, she has clout.  But I believe she is bias as I read the notes. And she wasn't hired to do a custody recommendation which I bet she did. She is a treatment professional role . I have excellent training and stay my "lane". I never became a forensic interviewer as I did not want to muddy the waters of my expertise, which is treatment. It is very frustrating because it does not matter here.  Small town, I am a newbie.  I don't know if I can help him but he did ask about reporting her to her professional board.  I think he could, honestly.  But I have always been a stickler to ethics, practice what you are trained in, do what you are skilled, etc.   But in rural areas, that is not the case.  Meh.  So, emotional roller coaster and I am along for the ride.

 

I will support him as much as I can. We left the court house and a homeless man was sitting there that he knew.  He does volunteer work for the homeless in this city.  He stopped, talked for a bit and introduced me.  That is who he is.  It is sad to see him so defeated.  And it is not over.

[sudnlysngl]

I'm so sorry to read this Tybec. I will keep you and your ng in my prayers to hold you both up and for the truth to come out and be revealed. (((hugs)))...

[trying2breathe]

Oh tybec, I sense the deep stress and frustration in your post.  It's disheartening to learn how the hearing is going and I hope for continued clarity as the process unfolds.   I know nothing of how custody hearings work in your area, but I do hope that the system will not deny him the deserved custody of his children.  Big big hugs to you -

[Captains wife]

Tybec - I too am so sorry your NG is going through this (with his kids) and you too are having to deal with this. It also makes me angry for you - many of us are just trying to do the best we can as single parents and watching (and going through) this divorce action nonsense is so triggering. (I have had to deal with it to, with NG). I do have some sympathy for how hard divorce is for all parties involved, especially with children, but for some reason it also really frustrates me.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Captains wife

[Trying]

Tybec I am so sorry for how frustrating this whole custody process is.  We went through it last year and it dragged on for months and months, sitting by and having no control of the process is so hard.  As a widowed person its impossible to understand a parent not seeing how important it is for children to have BOTH parents alive and involved and it would make me so angry.  I hope things move quickly from here.

[arneal]

So well-said, Trying.

[tybec]

Thanks for your support.  It has been an emotional week. It throws me back wishing my LH was here and we had our simple little life of us 3 without all these complicated matters I never would have conceived.  AND I do get angry that they fight over the kids who are lucky to have TWO alive and well parents who love them and both do spend time with them. 

 

I got my kid to high school, so I feel good about that.  And he seems well adjusted so far.  

 

At this stage of life, everyone has their history/baggage.  When to say you want to carry it with them, or take separate trips, I don't know.   Keeping busy with my son's new commitments, meeting new people that way and will start small groups back up in Sept. through my church. Trying to make this life fulfilled.  Time will tell. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by tybec

[arneal]

Hey there, tybec -- best on having a high schooler! 

 

Your comment about carrying the history/baggage or taking separate trips is certainly an interesting one. Is it possible to do both? It sounds like that's where you are to an extent. You are there for your BF but have your own things to take care of, which gives your BF space to handle his issues. Just a thought there. {{{hugs}}}

[trying2breathe]

It is complicated to re-partner, the baggage is inevitable.  I like the idea of carrying our own baggage and allowing our SOs to manage their own, and choosing to be together on the same journey.  Easy to say this and tougher to manage, but for me this gives some structure to a difficult situation.  Sigh ..... yes, I long for those simple and uncomplicated days with DH and our small family.   Keep on keeping' on, tybec - good for getting out there and connecting with others.  And best to you on having a high schooler - some of my best friends now I met through my children's high school.