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Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...


arneal
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Hey all!

 

Hoping everyone is doing well out there? I have been under multiple deadlines at work so haven't been as noisy here as usual :)

 

I took on two classes this term (what was I thinking???? Oh yeah: $. LOL) so I have quite a few long days. BF is taking class online and has to go to class once per week. It is interesting to have him here all day. Not bad, just interesting. It certainly gives us a chance to see each other at best and worst, all day, 24-7! I had to laugh because he washed dishes the other day ... you know how we get into our own routine and way of doing things? Well of course he does it differently than I do. It was all I could do not to nudge him away from the sink and say, 'I will do it, dear' 😂 I have been trying to put into practice the things I read in the book we got from church. I went to the 'graduation' ceremony last Saturday -- they did a mass wedding for couples who wanted to marry after the five-week relationship series was done. A total of 15 couples over the course of the day -- 14 at once and then one more later in the day. It was lovely.

 

I have decided that if marriage is in the future, I pray for a sign and if not, let that sign come even quicker. If we aren't meant to be a long-term thing, I pray we part as friends and that it is mutual and positive.

 

So, onward. Happy Wednesday, all!

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It has been quiet here!  Good to hear from you, arneal, sounds like things are busy and going well.  I'm curious about the marriage issue - is it enough to commit to each and live together, or are you most definitely looking for marriage?   Yup, the dishes thing - I have to back off and not give an opinion, there's lots of way of doing things! 

 

NG and I keep on keepin' on - no big news other than a 2 week vacation that we will be taking together soon.  Speaking of all day - 24/7, we will have two weeks of togetherness, and we're both wondering how this will turn out.  He's mentioned that he plans to relax and spend lots of time with a book, I'm gonna need a bit more than that so we will have our separate things going on.  To add some "variety" to our vacation - one of his besties will be staying in the 2 bedroom condo with us, and his brother and SIL will visit for a few days too.   NG grew up with 5 siblings, I had one brother.  He's accustomed to lots of people around, this will be interesting. 😜

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As an only child, I can't imagine, trying2 LOL! It took me going to college and being forced to sleep in the same room with someone and two marriages to get used to having even one other person around 😃 I hope you all have a great time! What do you plan to do while your BF reads his book? Hopefully something amazing and fun!

 

Great question on the marriage front. Having been married twice and widowed twice, I feel like there's not much I will gain from having the piece of paper versus not having it. Financially, I am not looking to 'gain' from being so partnered; I own the house, have a car, and all the associated bills lol. I work in education so will never be wealthy. BF is looking to start his business, so he's got to focus on how he uses his $$ as well. He has not had good marriage experiences and I think he is not particularly interested in thinking about it. We've talked around it -- discussed what we think marriage should look like and be about -- but have never had that 'what do you think about us getting married' discussion. He once said that he and his ex were dating for several years before taking the plunge and describes her as being pushy about it. I'm at that stage where I am not going to beg anyone to be with me, you know? That said, we are together (heck, you can't be much more together that living in the same house! I work from home and he is taking most of his class online so is here all day on the computer in a different room -- we pop in on each other and check in during lunch lol) ... I am part of a vibrant faith community and there are very strong feelings about marriage versus living together. I don't talk about my personal relationship much, outside with a few of the women in the group I have visited from time to time.

 

From a practical standpoint, I think marriage would benefit him more than me; I have medical insurance through my job so it would cost less to add him to my plan than for him to pay out of pocket or to buy business insurance, for example.

 

If the opportunity arose to experience the things I never have from being married (I have never had an actual proposal and have never had a honeymoon), yeah, I'd like that :)

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We have no plans for cohabitation or anything like that but NG and I are doing well. I think I have him hooked so he's making honestly more effort to make time for me. With his having joint custody of the kids, they are bouncing back and forth regularly and then you add in work and volunteer and our own individual interests, it's just crazy busy right now. He's admitted going a whole week is too long of a stretch for him. It feels nice to be needed and desired, I can't deny that. I've slept over his house a few times but it's still weird to me. I wake up here and there but I just sit there and think in the dark. I'm at least too lazy to get up. LOL! I'm a natural snuggler but he feels hot at night so I feel that I need to give him space so I don't make him overheat. It's something to work out. I'm interested to see how winter will pan out. I'm pretty cold most of winter so I'm sure I'll want to get right next to him for the heat. I've been good about respecting his space. I want to clean his entire main floor like a crazy person and rearrange his furniture for better flow. I admit to having dust bunnies and tufts of hair from our dog and cats but the main space of my home is always picked up and neat so the carelessly tossed menus, loose napkins, twist ties, abandoned various mail, various sauce packets, receipts, and clutter stuff is getting harder for me to ignore when I go over. I know it's not my space to deal with so I mentally remind myself to just not look at it.

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You are together, arneal, and don't need a marriage certificate to prove it.  I know non-married couples that are more committed to each other than some married couples. It's interesting that you desire that proposal, and the honeymoon.  Sounds like you're a bit of a romantic?  😉  I don't want marriage right now, not sure if I ever will.  I never imagined that I wouldn't want to again be in a marriage, so far my heart says no.  That being said, I do love again and feel that I can be in a happy and committed relationship without being married.

 

Julester  Maybe he's hooked, are you? 🤔 Do you think he'd mind if you tidied up?  You wouldn't want to set yourself up as the cleaning crew, but I find clutter hard to ignore too.

 

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 I admit to having dust bunnies and tufts of hair from our dog and cats but the main space of my home is always picked up and neat so the carelessly tossed menus, loose napkins, twist ties, abandoned various mail, various sauce packets, receipts, and clutter stuff is getting harder for me to ignore when I go over. I know it's not my space to deal with so I mentally remind myself to just not look at it.

 

 

Julestar,

 

I am glad I am not the only one with this ^^^^^^^.

 

NG used to clean his place spotless when I would come over for a date night.  Now over 2 1/2 years, he is just him.  He states I never come over anymore.  Well, I have my own home, and it is picked up with food and relatively clean.  I have stated he has the "man cave" .  And he does.  It is the "Museum a la R"  is what I tease.  Camo bedroom, military paraphernalia all over the walls, and his children's things in the living room, play room/loft, kitchen covering the island, desk and sun room.  You can't get in the garage easily as their stuff is everywhere.  His thought is to leave things as they were so when they return, it is "home."  May be the female being raised by parents who married in 1950, but I can't handle it.  So, my house mostly for visits. 

 

I had not decorated my new home. We had talked summer of 2017 about being under the same roof.  Since that did not happen, I am now decorating how I see fit.  I changed all furniture and colors to start a new life, new home from my LH.   So, gonna keep going.  Bought curtains and hung them today!  😉

 

Did a road trip fall break with dear son.  It was to reconnect with my few years at college when I was on my own and late husband was in the Marines.  Took my son to walk where my side of the family went to college, and for him to get a sense of the world outside of our small little pond. Took a visit to another college where friends took us for a tour.  It was good to remember who I was and my roots. Moving forward  always.

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Ha, trying2 -- no one would ever put me and the word 'romantic' in the same sentence LOL! To be honest, it's more like ticking things off a list. I have no desire for a wedding dress and bridesmaids and all that; someone saying 'hey, let's get married' is enough of a proposal. Spending a weekend at somewhere not at home afterward is enough of a honeymoon. The first marriage was the one where I wondered how bad I'd get hurt if I dropped and rolled out of the car on the way to the church (yeah, we did get married in church ... I still think about that, with all the abuse that occurred in that relationship ...) and the second one, we got married in our living room after living together for four years; it was something we said we'd do, not that either of us asked the other 🤔. Yes, we are together and it's been a short time. But as we've all said, time waits for no one. However, just like with work, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, so why would this be any different? 😁

 

Bottom line, I am grateful as Jules said, to be loved. I was smiling at the desire to pick up comments. I told BF way back when that my house is lived in and I am not a neat freak. It's hard to be with two good-sized dogs who swear they are people too! I do feel like I keep the place June Cleaver clean though with BF here by comparison; he doesn't pick up as much as I do, like wiping off the bathroom mirror or getting all the crumbs off the table after dinner. It is funny the things we notice about others, isn't it? 

 

Hey tybec -- sounds like a great time! Good for you. And doing up your place, your way? Love it! I will not comment on your guy's man cave ... BF made a suggestion for a real office desk where I could put my multiple computer monitors instead of having them propped up on things like I do now; I looked at him like he was nuts and laughed. We both had a good laugh over that one, actually!

 

I decided we would do Indian food tonight. It's the weekend, been a rough work week for me. I hope everyone has a fabulous weekend!

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Sorry to hear of the abusive marriage, arneal.  That must have been really tough to deal with. 

 

Remembering who you are and roots - priceless, tybec.  I didn't realize how important this was until I moved back to my home town.

 

I'm also smiling about clutter and tidiness, NG is tidy but he doesn't come home clean due to his work.  I find his "love prints" everywhere, and I routinely have to clean up the smudges.   I would rather have this, than him not here though.  DH never could hit the hamper with his dirty clothes, used to drive me crazy.  After he died, I remember thinking that I'd give anything to be able to collect his dirty laundry again. 😔  

 

Happy Weekend.  It's Thai takeout here tonite, it's been a long week here too. 

 

 

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Thanks tybec -- I sometimes think the recovery was worse than the experience ...

 

Love prints ... that's perfect :)

 

Enjoy the Thai takeout -- I have had a taste for sushi but figured we'd fill up at the buffet. It will make us tired enough to go to bed at a decent hour as most of this week has been closer to 11 pm. And with get up time between 4 and 5 am, that's been tough.

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Gosh now I want Indian and Thai food! I will this weekend! I deserve it. 

 

I honestly think NG wouldn't like it. So I think I'll leave it alone. I warned him just once if he didn't keep me entertained when I come over, I will start cleaning and organizing. I can only halt my OCD tendencies for so long. 😅

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I had Turkish food at one of the college towns we visited fall break. Laid on the floor on pillows and ate. It was an experience.

 

Forgot to mention. As I go through what I have described as a mid life or identity crisis, NG stated he will wait patiently as he wants no one else.  I really am twisted up about who I am, what I want/need, etc.  I guess that is expected uprooting myself after 22 years in the same town even if I did start dating before I moved.   And learning who I am in a town NO ONE knows me. A psychologist friend stated it must be liberating.  WEll, it would be if I had sought being widowed.  I think she must have compared it to her divorce. Anyway. 

 

Big realization. My son is bonding with NG.  NG does try to relate to him and include him in activities with his boys when he can. He says things to my son I cannot as his mother.  I had not seen it but the last couple weeks, it was undeniable.  My NG told me he knew it, and he did not know why I did not see it.    AND it is more  than about just me. His kids spend little time with me and the oldest always is running to the bathroom, nervous stomach.  He has mental health treatment for many issues, and  I am very familiar as a kid therapist.  NG noted his kid has to learn to adapt to the new environment, and he is sure the ex and family do not help him to do so.  I was glad he noted adapt, not just give up as I was afraid he might in all his pressure. I still have a great fear he will abandon me ,  if his ex found a way to state hitching up to me and my son is damaging to their children.  I wanted to believe this town and professionals involved would not fall for all that, but it is a good old boys network.  I am learning to work in it. I have child welfare cases with the same family court judge.  I am taking my time.  

 

Thanks for the ear.

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Julester -- so funny you mention what your NG would and would not like. I decided I wanted broccoli beef this past weekend; I had all the fixin's to cook it and BF says he doesn't like it. I said, well, I am cooking tandoori chicken as well but will be making broccoli beef and you don't have to eat it 😂 His response: Oh, I didn't say I wouldn't eat some ... I'll just pick the broccoli out. Ha! He hasn't had any yet and I plan to eat my leftovers!

 

That's fabulous, tybec that your guy is willing to be patient as you work on you. And that he connects to your son. If mine were here or spent time with me, I'd hope BF would do the same. His daughters are completely estranged from him now, having fed into a bunch of stuff from their mom's side of the family and also not being able to step out of their own mindsets to understand their dad at all. I mean, he can be stubborn and excitable, but if you know someone, I mean really know them, you learn who they are and how they work ... especially your own parent. Anyway, it's good that you all are connecting and will work such matters out over time ...

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tybec  It must be strange to be in a new city and be experiencing a completely new start.  DH and I moved a lot, in 20 years we moved 8 times that included several moves overseas.  It was somewhat liberating to relocate, heck I could re-create a new self and tweak my first name. Never did this, but it was fun to think about!  With these moves though,  I always had the familiarity and comfort of DH by my side.  You've had A LOT of change in the past few years, it's no wonder that you're seeking identity, who you are and what you want.  I hope that you can begin to find some deep sense of yourself, in whichever way that you can.   I also find that the fear of abandonment is a big issue, and I think that it always will be.  Sounds like you're learning the court system, your reputation is becoming known and hopefully that's a really good thing.  It's amazing and unfortunate that the good old boys network still exists.

 

Food and NG   I'm big on veggies, NG not so much.  He's coming around though, latest conquest spaghetti squash! 😃 

Edited by trying2breathe
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hey guys hadn't been on in a while ...life gets busy. ...I think i just spent 20 minutes reading to get caught up. 😁

Trying2 your holiday sounds good...I think holidaying together is a great way to get to know people.  two weeks of togetherness can be very telling...

 

I laughed at the different descriptions of the state of your guys places. My NG's place when I first met him was half painted, had a couch and a table. He had tidied up dishes but wiping down counters did not occur to him. After a couple of visits a very nice decorative side table and some pretty lights appeared. I found out later his 23 yo daughter had visited him and told him that if he wanted to impress me he should work on making his house more appealing.  Wiping down counters still didn't occur to him.

He is a horrible housekeeper and the bad thing was he had all sorts of people in his life that were enabling him. ( ie  every time his neighbour or daughter dropped in they would load up the dishwasher or whatever)  

 Now I am bit bold and after I knew him better I started to tease/tell him he was a horrible housekeeper.....and I started telling his neighbours etc not to lift a finger when they were visiting....forcing him  to do the cleanup more regularly....you know what he's getting better😀. He even wipes up the coffee spills off the counter sometimes.

 

 

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Well.... I hesitate to tell you all this, since it might sound like some serious bragging... my bf is neat and tidy, an excellent- albeit limited- cook, and has a great eye when it comes to decorating. I mean, perhaps his orderliness comes from his Dutch ancestry? And he has his degree from an Art Institute, so that accounts for his taste.

 

In this case, I’m the one who he feels is too lackadaisical around the house 🤣 And I can find it frustrating at time that he wants to participate so fully in the aesthetic decisions. 

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Feel free to send any of your tidy partners this way, should they get bored or run out of things to do over there 😂 BF cracked me up the other day -- he put a paper towel in front of the coffeemaker to catch inadvertent spills.

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Laughing about the tidiness - NG is organized and tidy, I credit the military to have helped in this area.  My spare electrical cords are wrapped up, tied neatly and organized, junk drawers cleared, garage is the neatest it's ever been.  Funny that it's part of his way of showing his love for me, but to me it doesn't mean a whole lot. Or maybe it's just his thing and he's over here so much.   Oh well, conversation for another time I guess.  Saturday we leave for vacation and two weeks of togetherness begins, coincides that Saturday is also his birthday.  I think I found the perfect birthday gift - tickets to the Patriots game in December,  I think he'll be thrilled. 

 

What's new with all of you?  Hope everybody is well ~

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Trying2breathe,

 

WOW!  I have never gone on vacation for 2 weeks ever. I hope you have an amazing trip and you and NG really grow closer.  😊

 

My developments.  Not complaining, just my real life. NG ran out of all his money at the last custody hearing which was just continued.  Nothing changed.  He refinanced his home to get money for further court and to have money to do things with his kids. He upped his mortgage payment  $400 a month now. He is stating he has to keep going and doing and if this is what it takes, he will do it.  He has military retirement at age 60 and health care, so he is just focusing on that and his kids need him now.

I can't pretend I understand. Maybe I would get it if I was in the same boat.  I am not. I am in the boat of needing to get my son raised and be healthy to enjoy what ever time I am granted.  

 

So, next big family holiday is coming. NG takes his kids to his mother's, flying, and it is a large city, so they do all kinds of fun and expensive things. He feels the need to do so as his mother cares for the kids all summer and long school breaks. He has spent 1000s already for this long weekend.  My plans fell through to go to the  same city where I have family.  My family decided not to host a Thanksgiving time, just lay low.  So,  NG and I are headed in different directions  for the holidays.  No discussion, just is what it is. My MIL is thrilled to have us come visit, already planning and it isn't Nov.!

 

NG spent the weekend with me and escorted me to my son's state band competition.  5 hours in a car and we talked A LOT.  We are very able to discuss difficulties, things that are important to us in our relationship. We really get along so well and are open. And there are the realities.

 

I keep going.  

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Right on the holiday time, tybec -- I've been working seven day work weeks right now as I picked up two classes; if I don't, the grading gets too far behind. Sigh. I haven't been to my volunteer for two Saturdays in a row now, but fortunately, the one class just ended so I should be back to normal with just the one class.

 

Glad to hear that you are able to talk to your guy about all this. What a tough thing! My LH had a troublesome ex and we were in court often; he was already health-challenged and so didn't have assets to sell or whatever for all that. She (and subsequently his daughter) were about the $$$, wanting expensive things in some cases or just spending on what I have always seen as frivolous (hair, nails ... I mean, if you don't work a job that supports all that above and beyond being able to take care of your day to day expenses, then it's out). He did his best to contribute to things like high school trips or prom but never sprung for vacations. He (and then we) worked too hard for too little and didn't vacation at all, really. Even when we moved to CA, we rarely took vacations after a while. We had a time share for a bit but after his health declined even more, that was out. Plus there was less income in the house to support it so it had to go. I can't imagine mortgaging my home for those sorts of things as I'd feel like I was 'buying' my relatives and children. 

 

Not to be overly harsh and I hope it doesn't come off that way ... just describing my mind set. I just had a conversation with my son over the weekend. As I think I've mentioned, he is on the autism spectrum but is 23 years old and lives in semi-independent living now. I had to tell him that if he wants to be treated like a man, he must act like one; if he had issues with me, he was grown and could say so; if he didn't want me in his life or something, he needed to say so. I explained that I love him as my one and only child, but that I wasn't here to be a bother in his life. He panicked and said he loved me and that he definitely wanted me in his life. I don't take any crap from him and despite being my only son, I know he is cared for. His house mom keeps me updated and I know he's safe. I am not going to beg for anything from him, especially as an adult. I made sure he has always known who is the Alpha (parent). I used to tell him that no matter how old he got, I would always be Mom. I know not everyone has that kind of relationship with their children, but as an only child, my parents didn't coddle me in any way. They were tough!!! I guess I got it naturally ... sigh. 

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Greetings on a rainy day here - checking in from vacay - yeah, 2 weeks ..... I've done this once before in my life, the last 2 week trip was with DH and he died a week after we returned home. 😢  DH was a traveler, and insisted that we get out and see the world.   It's a bit of a mind game for me with this trip.  It's a splurge to be here, yet we're keeping it fairly simple.  He's had a time share for a long time and so that's on him.  I sprung for airline tix for us and got a good deal.  I'm fortunate to be able to work from anywhere, so I'm keeping up with that.  There's three of us here - me, BF and Joe, one of BF's besties ... and it's working out okay so far.  Ends up Joe's ex-wife - that he's still married to - died suddenly two days before this trip, and Joe decided to be here anyway.  He's reeling from the news, and we're sharing emotions as he's handling the logistics of her death from here.   Whether Joe will stay for the two weeks, we'll see.  BF and I are doing okay, this time together will be telling on how we progress in the relationship.  Major talk last night about my feeling of being disconnected with him, and his reassurance that he's here for the long haul with me and he wonders if I feel the same.

 

The health and raising of children is priority, at least to me.  Everything else is secondary.  My kids are still dependent on me, NG's two daughters are sprung, as he calls it.  Being a parent, and a solo one at that, puts a different dynamic on the relationship, and I'm happy that NG understands this.  Glad that communication is open and easy with him, tybec - doesn't get any better than that.

 

I have a high functioning Aspie son, and it's been difficult for me to keep a sense of a stable relationship with him.  He thinks differently, brings up aspects of things that I can never imagine, and is sensitive beyond belief.  At times I think that I'm doing everything right with him, and he calls me out on what I think is a minor aspect of something and everything then shifts.  I'm the Alpha parent, yet I can't be tough with him.  We've yelled, cried, ignored each other, it's not easy.  I'm glad that right now we seem to be in a good place.  Hope that the relationship with your son settles, arneal.  It continues to be a learning process for me to understand my son. 

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Thanks, trying2 ... I think my son is in that space; he thinks he is right about everything and that nothing anyone else says means as much as what he thinks. Unfortunately, as I tell him, his actions can get him into trouble. His house mom is interesting in that she's told me to live my life, that I've done my part. She has had young (and not so young!) men with special needs in her care whose family members refuse to have contact; they don't even check in. I can't imagine. I have no problems parenting from a distance. Maybe it's being an only who did the single parent thing when the first husband died (too busy surviving to be soft?) and also having no other children. I struggle because I have such a critical eye. I have a co-worker (also work from anywhere, so I am glad I don't have to be in an office every day with her, sad to say) who has an adult daughter. We have been on conference calls and I hear the daughter in the background. If my adult child ever took that tone with me, the conversation would have gone very differently.

 

Love that you are able to share the way you've done this vacation, trying2. Over our time together, BF and I haven't done too much getting away and the when we have, it's been my idea and plan. Right now, with him in school, the farthest we are going is to the grocery store and that not too often lol! Kidding aside, the time for a commitment conversation is looming. I have no problems helping as he does this; it's good to see him out of the stressful work environ. But I am not going to be one of those people whose partner finds their way and then goes on their way. Of course, I know there are no guarantees in anything. I have had my conversations with God; my prayer is 1) if marriage is in our future, let it be known; 2) if not, let that be known; 3) if we aren't meant to continue walking this path together, let it be a kind parting in which neither of us feels lessened by it.

 

We'll see what transpires. This Thanksgiving will be our third and our first under the same roof. Time sure flies.

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Hi, all!

 

Wow. November -- where has the time gone???

 

It has been nearly nine months since BF moved in. We are settled into a routine for the most part. He seems to see this space as home, even though he doesn't use that term often. He is in school and is more relaxed than I've ever seen him. We are coming up on three years of knowing one another in May 2019. 

 

Come the new year, he will be in good position to start his own business. It's good to see. He is mapping out the things he needs to do in preparation and the school where he is taking his classes helps with a lot of that. Having run a small business with LH, I toss in ideas from time to time of things he'll need to think about and resources he might consider. Since he's doing all this planning, the time draws near to talk about what the future looks like for us ... 

 

Hoping you all are well?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Back from two weeks away - me, NG and Joe - it was good to be away and so very good to get back home again and back to the routine.  NG and I (and Joe!) got along pretty well during the time away, there were a few bumps along the way that weren't too much of a surprise. I don't think that NG and I grew any closer, but there has been clarity on some issues.  The time together solidified for me that he's methodical, a fixer and a thinker, and the idea of doing romantic gestures doesn't come naturally.  Not that he doesn't want to try, it just doesn't occur to him on what to do and how to do it.  To him, if we're fed, provisioned and our surroundings are tidy all is good. 😁  For me to spell out that I needed more from him felt fake, but I did spell it out and he listened and was accommodating.  With Joe there too there was a lot of bro energy, and I was happy to participate like a bro - but I needed the gestures from NG that I was along as his girlfriend.  He listened, is trying and I appreciate it. 

 

Happy November - yes, time flies doesn't it?   Nine months with NG, arneal - where has the time gone? Sounds like a commitment conversation may come soon for you?   I'm happy that the holidays are approaching - it has been my favorite time of the year.  It will be different this year, it feels good to take on a plan on how time will be spent this holiday and how and when to include my in-laws.   It's taken this long to again appreciate the holidays, and to right now not feel an overwhelming sadness that DH is not with us.  Although in-laws are hinting that they want to be included in on our Thanksgiving plans, I'm instead spending time with my family and NG - a first.

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