Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...

[arneal]

Happy Monday all:

 

I wonder if some of this goes back to communication. I mean, might our signif's struggle to say what's on their heart too? It's got to be hard to be on the 'receiving end' of a widow or widower. Not knowing what to say sometimes, not realizing perhaps that the thing they take for granted is something that we struggle with ... 

 

Not that it's anything as big as spending time or marriage, but BF and I once had a conversation about something I'd cooked that he didn't like. He made this sort of suggestion about it and I said straight out for him to tell me if he didn't like it and I wouldn't make it again. No muss, no fuss for me -- I just need to know. He replied that he was so thankful to have someone cook for him that he didn't want to mess it up 😂 

 

Bottom line, how can we be clear, how can we invite our signif to be clear, and get to a place where it works? Nothing in life is perfect. No one should expect to get everything they want. Relationship must involve a meeting of the hearts and minds. Call it compromise but in the end, it's agreeing to what is optimal for all, especially where children are involved.

 

On the family issue. I think about LH. He had a big ol' family. Our agreeing what was optimal was that we'd host the family get-together at our house because we had the biggest yard at the time in a centrally located spot. The house was teeny and I was about to loose all my cookies around all those people, many of whom had never met me. Some of them lived nearby so we did see them much more than I ever saw my family. To top it off, LH had to work that night, which meant I got 'stuck' there with everybody! His aunties and cousins helped me clean up and many people were still there when he got home around 12:30am. He was overjoyed while I was wiped out. But it was okay. I got used to being around them -- and dealing with the ones I didn't like so much and who didn't like me. My son had a family where he likely wouldn't have otherwise. If we'd had a chance to live on one of their properties, had they had it like that, I likely would have agreed to make LH happy. So my son would have had some land to roam on and 'cousins' to learn from. Would I have grown to love it? Nope. I'm an only child and appreciate not being around a lot of family. Reunions freak me out because it's too many people LOL. But the benefits for my son and husband would have outweighed my discomfort, particularly if it was the deciding factor in us being able to be together. However, I always had boundaries with his family, which is why some of them didn't deal with me, even when we were right there together.

[sudnlysngl]

AAhhh Arneal you have a way with words! I will only use one that works in every relationship,  

COMPRIMISE , it works when both people use it and think of the other with love and kindness....

[Bunny]

For me- If he is actually able to completely forsake all his family obligations in order to be ‘all in’ with sugarbell I would seriously walk away from him- and quickly! We are all adults with complicated pasts/presents and expecting someone to pretend they’re strings-free 20 yr olds again is not realistic or even fair.

 

I’m not understanding why people need to be married and living together in order for a relationship to be considered successful and working. I do understand that some people require this and I support their need for it and walking away from relationships that are not emotionally fulfilling, but it’s not for everyone and, in my eyes, that is also perfectly fine. What i I need in a relationship now is not what I needed when I got married 22 years ago. I mean, as long as the pros out-weigh the cons...

[arneal]

Thanks, sudnly

 

And yes, Bunny -- like I shared about my mom and her companion; they are very happy in their own spaces, spending time together and going to their own when they annoy each other LOL. It's more than booty call as well. There is commitment and certainly a ton of compromise!

[arneal]

How timely -- Just got an email for this TED talk about healthy and unhealthy love ... 

[sudnlysngl]

3 hours ago, arneal said:

How timely -- Just got an email for this TED talk about healthy and unhealthy love ... 

IRONY, lol

[StillWidowed]

Yeah, I want a man to be “all in” with me. Does it look the same as when we were in our 20’s?  Of course not, but do we still know when the other person is all in?  You bet we do. Feelings are considered, compromises are made.  I see many women that want all in and are settling for part time. It’s sad. 

[Sugarbell]

His family obligations are much more complicated than mine. Bunny- I agree not sure the hang up with marriage/living together to be successful either. Actually I enjoy the space, just do get annoyed with how much is on his plate (driving his elderly Mother around everyday, taking her to dinner, being the doormat for his siblings, doing everything on the family farm)- As far as kids, ex (even thought she is certifiably nuts)-that is to be expected in mid life. All the other stuff, it's almost foreign to me.

 

I don't think I will want "all in" for many years.. Hell maybe never.  I like the feeling of raising my kids totally on my own. I don't want to have another person parenting them or making decisions. If I needed a husband, I could find one. As could most of us. (At my 4 year mark, I felt I needed to be married. My rock bottom was my 3 month marriage post widowhood.)

 

Sorry, Just not a co-dependent type. Some people need it. Some of us don't. It's more enjoyable being the exclusive girlfriend. 

 

[Julester3]

I’m far from co-dependent. I was always quite independent but I do like the collaborative efforts you have with a good partner and the sharing of burdens and having someone to bounce thoughts off of. I don’t require all the collaborative efforts but I miss them. My LH and I were very in sync so we could intuitively help one another when needed regardless if it was said aloud or not. I know that takes years to  achieve so I’m not expecting that level. I do get a good listener with NG and I won’t let him fix things for me. I feel I need to do it because I know he can’t be around all the time. I need to self sufficient always. He’s caring and touched base with me all the time. He is invested in our relationship. 

[tybec]

Interdependence involves a balance of self and other within the relationship, recognizing that both partners are working to be present and meet each other's physical and emotional needs in appropriate and meaningful ways.

 

Codependency is associated with patterns of a relationship that keep unhealthy behaviors going.  Termed in late 80s and hot topic in 90s surrounding addictions.  “Codependency is a behavioral condition in a relationship where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. Among the core characteristics of codependency is an excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity.”

 

You want an interdependent relationship.  Safe boundaries, keep your identity, yet support each other.  

Edited May 22, 2019 by tybec
Added

[StillWidowed]

8 hours ago, tybec said:

Interdependence involves a balance of self and other within the relationship, recognizing that both partners are working to be present and meet each other's physical and emotional needs in appropriate and meaningful ways.

 

And there it is.  And unfortunately, many women are NOT in interdependent relationships.  A lot are in co-dependent relationships.  Case in point.  My girlfriend's boyfriend wasn't spending much time with her, so she went over to his house and cut his grass so she could get a couple hours with him.  Ladies, it's ok to be alone until the right one comes along.  Really it is!

[arneal]

Quote

 ... so she went over to his house and cut his grass so she could get a couple hours with him.

Wow. Not 'she went over to cook dinner at his house so they could spend some time together' -- everyone has to eat, right? But cut his grass? No way. 

 

When BF was moving, he was still working for someone else. He gave me a key to the apartment; I had a much more flexible schedule so I went over a couple times and did some packing and cleaning before he got there after work. He would bring takeout, we would work into the evening, and would talk through the day. I think that's the closest I got to 'cutting his grass' ... but most of that time was mine. Since I had a key, I came and went as I pleased, did as much or as little as I felt, or didn't go at all. 

[MrsDan]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:24 PM, trying2breathe said:

tybec   Meh is right - so sorry that the summer with NG isn't aligning so that you can be together.  Summers with kids and the routine changes so much.  It seems though that you and NG are both digging your heels in and not willing to compromise to be together.  Almost like sabotaging the relationship, now that summer is here.  If you really want time together with him,  can you work together to make it happen?  Kids can stay for a weekend with a friend, and you (or your son?) can miss a band practice or two.  What's NG doing on the weekends when he doesn't have his kids?  It's easy for me to type out a solution, and of course I don't know the details of what you're dealing with.   But it seems that you and NG are two head strong people unwilling to give an inch, in order to be together.   I've been there for almost all of my kids' activities, concerts, games, awards, etc.  But I've missed a few, when I had something else important going on.  For me, it's important that my kids know that I'm there for them, to support their activities and achievements.  But I also want them to know that I prioritize myself or my relationship sometimes too.  

 

I think it's hard to overemphasize the restrictions the court in a custody situation puts you under. The time you get is what you get and there is no compromise. The rules a super specific and unless the other parent is willing to compromise (never happens in our case) you are stuck working around what the court has put in place, and walking around eggshells trying to keep them from taking more time away. When one person is dealing with the court, the other person is the only one able to compromise. And that gets tiresome, and it means you are asking yourself and your child to make all the sacrifices. Why should her kid miss band (I was a band kid, it's a bigger deal than you might think) just because the court is dragging it's feet (3 months?! That is outrageous!) 

 

To answer the other question about needing a relationship where the other person is "all in" well sure i would like that but (see the above court stuff)  that is something that is not completely in his control. What  I do get is someone who understands that i will always love and grieve Dan, who understands that Dan will always be integrated into our lives, who gets along with Dan's family, is even willing to go on vacation with them, who is so supportive through my chronic pain condition, who is someone who argues fairly and constructively. The list goes on. There are things i wish were different, but you can't have everything, and with him i get a whole lot. I don't believe people should settle by any means but i don't think I'm settling either. 

[StillWidowed]

I agree Mrs. Dan (and it's wonderful to see you again).  My concern is for the women that are in relationships where the man is not as invested emotionally as she is.  That's when hearts get broken and self esteem damaged.  It can become a game of am I good enough, am I  doing enough, what can I do to make him want me more?  I see it all too much and was even there myself.  Love, romance, dating, relationships, all of that was very different for me after the death of my husband.  There was a vulnerability that I never had before.  Ten years later, I'm in a much healthier place and don't have those feelings of being lost anymore.  I've been doing life alone for quite some time now, therefore I know I don't have to settle.  I can wait for the real deal.

[tybec]

Well, it is Memorial Day weekend and quiet here. I guess that means many of you are having great weekends.  I am not with NG and his kids. He had family church camp, and my son had obligations to band for graduation. We went out with friends for dinner Friday night and then were also invited to a minor league baseball game with work friends in a suite. So, not bad.  But today is lonely.  NG is back, and his mom came in.  I am waiting to see if they want to get together but all are tired.  She flew in. and they have been outside in the heat.   

Mrs. Dan and Stillwidowed have nailed how I feel. Both sides.  I try to be accepting of his situation, and it gets tiresome being the one to sacrifice, attend events by myself as he has his own activities, his own church, etc. And I have gone through the "am I good enough, doing enough" questions.  It is so good and so hard.  I am working through my feelings/thoughts. I am not perfect and NG has identified some things about myself I don't particularly care to know. It is complicated. 

He has agreed to go to couple counseling, which is recommended when I read about blending families. There is so much involved, truly. Kudos to those that make it work. 

Happy weekend!

[sudnlysngl]

Hi Tybec, sorry about being left out. My daughter and her family have kicked me to the curb again cause they have been fussing. Somehow my daughter thinks it's ok even in her 30's to blame mom when she is being the witch in her family or to me. So now even with her knowing what I've gone through this past year she will do what she can to punish me. Hmmm, sound familiar arneal?

Oh, and my doggie passed away 2.5 weeks ago so I am totally alone right now.

I am trying to decide if I just want to pack up and move out of state with out saying anything to anyone. 

We are worth it, and it's great that you and your guy are going to do counseling. Best of luck to both of you....

Edited May 26, 2019 by sudnlysngl

[Julester3]

Lonely day here too. NG’s ex was out of town all week for a convention or something so he’s been with his kids since last Sunday and he also had some family obligations. So it’s been well over a week since I have seen him though we talk daily. I had friends over last night and we had lunch with my brother and his family since his daughter had 8th grade promotion this weekend. 

[arneal]

sudnlysngl -- I am so sorry about what you are going through! The loss of a beloved family member -- a four legged, loyal one! -- on top of a bratty adult kid? {{{hugs}}}

 

I can't remember if I posted here about my son; he sent me a letter early in March which was actually designed to get my attention just before his birthday. He does crap like that every year at birthday and Christmas. However this time, he slid in a bit of what he would probably identify as a reprimand. I was reminding him about good behaviors and things he shouldn't do, and the fact that I'd been fussing about the same crap since he was about 12 (he turned 24 this year) and he tuned me out. In the letter, he mentioned how 'he was being taught' (at his care mom's) to not respond to people who yell; he indicated he wasn't being disrespectful, but since I was yelling, he just didn't respond. I was so irritated. I wrote back and in no uncertain terms reminded him of the years we'd tried to teach him how to handle his anger and that I hadn't been yelling -- that I'd been reminding him of how he should have been conducting himself out in the world. I let him know it was okay though and wished him well. I then had a text conversation with his care mom; told her I wasn't going to reach out to him for his birthday since that was the whole motive behind his contact anyway, that I'd send something later on. I waited and he didn't call or write again. Mother's Day came and went, nothing. I sent his care mom a store debit card for him, told her to please use it for his needs as she saw fit, and she didn't even need to tell him I'd sent it. I mentioned the coldness of him not calling on Mother's Day and that it spoke volumes. She told me that he'd said he had called, so on top of everything, he lied about it. I am so done with that young man. I pray the best for him but am weary of his shenanigans. I told him the last time we actually talked that he could be honest and tell me if he didn't want to deal with me. He of course said it was nothing like that, but his actions speak volumes. I keep in contact with his care mom to make sure he's doing okay, but beyond that, I stay away.

 

I am the one in this relationship that has all her own 'stuff' -- I get all sorts of boxes in the mail since I belong to several monthly services (if you like notebooks and pens, Scribedelivery is marvelous!! I just tried Trunk Club as well, after being a StitchFix fan for a few years). I am on the phone here and there with friends or 'family' (beyond my mom, the 'family' are actually LHs cousins -- the two who stay in touch), like a gentleman who used to shop in the music store where LH worked when we lived back east; he still calls to check on me around each holiday. He called this morning. I go to church and serve there on different ministries. I chat with people in the local stores because I've lived here long enough to know them in a friendly way (LH would be so glad to see me doing that since I would never talk to people when we were out -- that was always his thing). I go to my gym. I stand outside and talk to the neighbors. I built a life before BF and since we are here, rather than me having moved to where he was and not knowing anyone or something like that, or us having moved somewhere where neither of us knew anyone ... I'm gonna keep on keeping on. I don't expect him to come or do what I do. If he chooses to, great! If not, his loss  

 

Today is the third anniversary of BF and my first date. Amazing how time flies. I've spent the last couple days, doing next to nothing, since I need to rest my arm a bit (subcutaneous cyst near a nerve ... considering that I work online, I have to get some rest in there when I can). No plans for the day, other than to cook some ribs, watch TV, and play video games. We just had a good laugh about anniversary flowers; he was going to buy me a bouquet but came to tell me instead because of a joke we've had over these years about flowers. He's doing his thing and I'm doing mine. And that's okay.

 

I hope you all have a wonderful day and week!

[sudnlysngl]

Thanks arneal, and hugs to you too. What is it with bratty grown kids? My daughter has been thinking it's ok to try to parent me, and blame me for everything she does in her life since her dad died! She has become such a bully to me, and right now I don't have "friends" so to speak of. My best friend died within a year of my dh, all of my siblings stopped talking to me cause I guess I had the death bug around me. I actually just read an interesting article about how hard it is to make new friends at my age which is dare I say mid fifties now. I feel too young to be old and too old to be young, I'm in that really weird area of life right now. Oh and let me tell you, there is discrimination when it comes to getting a new job for me right now.

So just having a hard time of it, but being grateful and thankful that I have enough savings to get by on for at least 2 to 3 years if I'm careful. Damn I don't see that as being negative as I continue to look for a job, learn to live all alone for the first time in my life, put up with a bitch of a daughter , having to sell my house after 26 years, my dog dying 2 weeks ago. Oh yeah my lovely daughter called me a week and a half ago thought I was dying, I was passing 2 kidney stones, I only have 1 kidney, she didn't even come over, or call back for 3 or 4 days....Did I say OIY, lol 

I think my point was my daughter says I'm negative!, Heck, I'm not just the crap I'm being handed is, LOL

So I will get through this new transition of my life or die trying, what else can I say?

Best to all of you...

Edited May 28, 2019 by sudnlysngl

[arneal]

Totally get it, sudnly. 

 

I think something that just jumped out at me as I read your post and in thinking about the latest bit of thread here on 'what is enough' (as in, are people getting what they need out of current connections? are people settling?) is that we must be reminded to take care of ourselves.

 

Yes, signif's are great. Companionship is great. But in the end, are we caring for ourselves? Do we know what that means? 

 

After LH died, it was me, two dogs, one cat, and some fish in this house. Every time I went to the store, one of the dogs acted like it was the end of everything -- she was afraid like the other humans, I too would leave and not come back. I spent most of my time, trying to reassure her as I navigated the otherwise empty-of-humans life. If you all remember, I was considering having LHs daughter come and live with me. I can only imagine how difficult that would have been! I haven't heard from her in more than a year or so. Her junk is still in my garage cabinet. I've put in my end-of-life paperwork that she is to get her dad's drums should she still want them. However, if life takes me and BF in a new direction and I sell this house, I will probably let her know I will donate his drums to the church and that the stuff she left is getting tossed. I'll send her a box with some smaller items (that I can afford to send) and that will be that.

 

We likely have all been in position to comfort others while we ourselves need comforting. To be the strong ones. Your comment about 'having the death bug' made me think about that. I mean, if we've experienced the death of a close loved one -- and if we've been a caregiver on top of that -- what other bug are we to have? It's like we can't win: either we've moved on too quickly or we're stuck in 'death bug' mode. There's no middle ground for those on the outside. 

 

It's hard to get off that train and we often end up on the outs with everyone who doesn't think like we do, but for me, it's been a peace of mind to do so ...

[Sugarbell]

SS I am really sorry you are having a rough time, bitchy daughter, dog dying and kidney stones (ugh) would make me feel real negative! It;s a jungle out there. 

 

My Memorial Weekend was with two of my kids.(My 16 year old had to work at a his new summer job so he stayed with my parents) We went to the mountains, family cemetaries, kayaked, hiked, ziplined. It was a fun time. NG always has his Memorial Day family cookout. We have gone for the past two Memorial day weekends (We used to always go to the mountains on Memorial Day- and went to his cook out instead the past two years)- This year my kids said "No way!"- They don't enjoy it. His extended family is very nice to me..But lets just say they are different. My kids don't enjoy the company. So I wasn't going to push it this year. It's not fair to them. So we went back to our traditions and he did his. (He has to do ALL THE WORK for this cook out thing. Mow a hundred acres, get all the food ready, the smoker griller...He plants over a hundred flowers at the family cemetary where his brother and Dad are buried- Well they are buried on the family farm. It's really kinda like the Hatfield and McCoy's days. And the family all talks about each other, lots of kids with different Dads... Usually some relative just got out of jail, or is on home confinement..in rehab. It's always something. My kids just can't deal with it and I don't want them around it) NG I think was very disappointed we didn't go. I just told him we are going back to our own traditions and my kids don't want to go anymore. Yeah- it's kinda a mess.

 

He did however, come over Memorial Day when we got home and took me for dinner and drinks just the two of us. However, mid life...it's not longer about just the two of us dating. It's all the other stuff that makes it complicated. 

s 

[arneal]

Hey there Sugarbell -- sounds like if you haven't had the conversation about family dynamic, it may be time. Maybe NG doesn't realize how different life is for other people. Our norms are just that, aren't they. Hard to see other ways of life sometimes unless it's presented to us.

 

My son never interacted with BF's children and since they are not dealing with BF at all right now (talk about a mess), it's a non-issue. Emotionally complicated but without the human element ... sigh. 

[Sugarbell]

Never thought I would go back to the town I was raised in and have such a cultural divide in a relationship. 

 

That places this widda journey has taken me.

[tybec]

I ended my relationship with NG today.  Over 3 yrs.  It will be 3 weeks tomorrow, and we have spent less than 48 hours together in this time frame.  Same as when I lived 1 1/2 hours away in the beginning of the relationship.  I have been alone as my son is on a missions trip.  He has his kids every other week now.  I don't talk to him on weekends, generally, and he calls when he commutes to work.  That has been about the extent of 2 of the weeks. I have had a lot of time to think.  I have tried to keep busy.  I decided he could not meet my needs and he needed to raise his kids how he sees fit, but I was not going to be alone most of the time while he did it.  He found out the judge was issuing orders for custody now from Sept of last yr.  9 months back up?  I am not willing to wait 9 months more and  "SEE" where things go. 

I feel a little numb, a little tearful.  SAD.  I have never ended a relationship.  

I didn't discuss it all with him.  No point. Been there.  We have a few loose strings to tie up but we can make arrangements via text and exchange what is needed.  

So, new thread for me.

It is hard but NOTHING like I have been through.  I am surprised.  I am afraid to be alone, as I build my new life in a new city, but I am strong, stronger than I know.  Thank you for the "ears." 

[arneal]

tybec.

 

...

 

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

 

You have been there, in that city, for a bit. You got this. No need for fear. However, fear is normal. This house had been home for several years (nearly seven) before LH died. After he died, I was afraid. I was afraid to go outside, afraid that I'd die out there, that no one would know, that my dogs would be alone.

 

But then I got myself in check. I know that my Creator did not give me a spirit of fear, but a sound mind. You have that too. Of all the things you've shared with us here, one thing stands out: you are strong. 

 

Have a good cry. Maybe buy yourself something nice to eat -- hell, go out to dinner. Or a show. Or a show and dinner. Dress up and whistle at yourself in the mirror before you go out.

 

And then take care of yourself.

 

You.

 

Got.

 

This.

 

And we are here for you.