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Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...


arneal
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I guess we all come at situations with our own set of experiences to inform us on our opinions. I, personally, have never been with a button-pushing conflict lover (my DH merely had a very shitty temper), but I have witnessed friends navigate these relationships long-term due to a child involved. One finally stopped engaging with the ex except through a mediary. One fully engaged in the conflict until the day he died- he was such a brilliant man, but she was his Achilles Heel. I could never figure out how she managed it, but I keep a wide berth to this day. Another took the kicked helpless puppy approach to her antics until he died. They were all parents wanting relationships with their children but at the mercy of an unbending person, fighting against unreasonableness. 

 

Obviously, an abusive person is beyond concerning themselves with morals, but for the ‘average’ divorce I just don’t get it. Maybe it’s my childlessness that makes me astonished people can’t put aside their differences for their children, it is beyond me using a child as a weapon to get to the ex. It makes no logical sense. 

 

I would not have the patience for it, and I am a Very Patient Woman, generally speaking. My heart goes out to all you blenders ❤️

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I don't know the situation, but what I do know is if folks are not healed, they carry on their wounds and bleed on you.  My friend cautioned me from the get go, stating if my NG had not healed from his divorce, recoupling would not make it disappear. I did not truly understand that.

 

"Maybe this man feels by not going along with this ex he will lose time with his children." This was discussed in my last couples session. It was emotional for my NG. The counselor even asked him if he thought he could be with any woman as she deserved/needed given his great fears with his ex and his kids.  He could not answer but then ended it a week and half later.

 

As a quote states, Trauma creates changes you don't choose. Healing is about creating change you do choose.  Or you tend to relive the same thing over and over again in some form.  And no one can change the person but him/herself.  So, CW, hard calls on your part. What can you live with?  What is he willing to change for a healthy relationship with you?  

 

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Thank you all for the interesting discussion and thoughts...it’s a difficult situation when you are in a relationship with a man who is wonderful in many ways and your kids really bond - yet there is so much drama/noise. He IS very afraid his ex will try and take his son away (she pulled some very awful moves before and during the divorce) which is a key problem  - but I also think he adds fuel to the fire by his actions which creates a very negative feedback loop between them. I actually call him out on some of his actions sometimes, in favor of his ex!  I agree with tybec that if wounds are not healed, they will bleed on you. Ive been encouraging him, his son (and also for him to go with his ex for coparenting) into therapy - it’s more than I can or want to deal with. Bunny - I was trying to be patient at first and I was very communicative about my concerns/issues (so proud of myself as I’m usually quite passive aggressive) but I’m admittedly tired of being the one setting the boundaries and certain things not changing. I also, like you mentioned, cannot stand their childish behaviour and how their behaviour is negatively impacting their son . I’ve taken on some “toddler like” reinforcement actions - which honestly he seems to get more than having a conversation. But I’m honestly getting tired of dealing with this and listening to myself too - complaining about his issues and how they interfere in our relationship. I’ve asked for certain things to change and while I see some improvement, there are certain behaviours that are upsetting me.  As I’m sure you all would agree with - issues can build up over time and then resentment can then really build. I think I need to be more proactive about really thinking about what I want and what is best my son and I for the long term! I might have to admit to myself that some of these issues with NG might never change given the personalities involved and while I’m ok with living seperately etc and I can deal (and have gotten more comfortable) with certain situations with his ex and their coparenting (since it’s best for their son)  I’m not ok being in a relationship with continued drama/noise (which he isn’t taking active responsibility for improving) and coming behind his family, ex, son etc over and over. Thank you all again for letting me vent and this discussion! 

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Thank you for jumping on this thread, CW -- appreciate you more than you know! As we've enter each new year (and go, new decade!), we are encouraged at our church to take stock, to write down what it is we are looking for. I'm reading a book called To Hell with the Hustle and in it, the author distinguishes between goals and formations ... goals are finite, in that they are things we complete and tick off the list; formations are cyclical, in that they are the things we want to incorporate as who we are. He describes how so many people start the year with the 'goal' of running as a 'resolution' but have stopped and likely forgotten about it by February. Instead, a formation would be to say I am a runner; therefore, I will aim to run at least five minutes a day three times a week. If it happens twice, yay! If it happens four times, yay! As long as it's something I do and don't stop doing after a week, month, or year.

 

I share that because your post reminded me of both, the notion of writing down what it is we'd like to see come to fruition this year as well as which things we want to become formations. It sounds like what you want as best for you and your son will be tops on your list of formations! Plus, you and yours are in a position to step back; you've had to care for one another after your being widowed, while your NG and his children still have this person (healthy, toxic, or otherwise) still there. You've had to create a new formation of what 'every day' looks like. While your NG and his children seem to have a different every day all the time because of the ex's antics, you don't. Your new normal, it sounds like, has become a bit of bedrock, while he and his are still on rough seas. How much boat rocking can be part of your and your son's formation? That's what you'll have to truly determine for your own peace. 

 

And it's tough.

 

{{{{hugs}}}}

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New Year is off to a rocky start.  My 88 y/o Dad is in failing health, has been in the hospital this past week and it looks like any day that he will no longer be with us.  It's messy and not peaceful, we're fighting hospital staff to try and keep Dad comfortable.  NG is noticeably absent for everything that I'm going through - not there emotionally but mentioned that he's more than happy to come over and hang up the wind chime that he gifted me for Christmas.   I'm trying to give him leeway on why he's not supportive.  His father had a traumatic brain injury at age 50, mother died young of an illness, his family were all long term caregivers and I know that death of a parent is an emotional thing for him.  That being said - I'm mad that he's not capable of supporting me right now.  Even a "how are you doing?" would be nice right now.  Deal breaker with him?  Not sure ...

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trying2 -- I am so sorry to read of your dad's health challenges. Being a caregiver is always hard and when you have to fight for what your loved one needs in a place that should be taking care of them, well that's a whole 'nother level of stressor. I pray your strength and hope you can get the emotional support you need right now! {{{hugs}}}

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I am sorry T2B.  It’s hard.  My SIL lost her mother last week in hospice.  A short week.    Nothing prepares you for it.  You just get through it.  Glad NG  is trying.  
 

Our human nature is to flee or fight.  Avoid difficulties. Denial.   We have all been there.  😞.  
 

Lifting you up. 

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CW- I get this to an extent. NG youngest is 18- thank God she is a Senior this year (very immature 18 year old, but at least she will be out of school)

 

The crazy ex will always be there. It's something I struggle with, yet its gotten much better since she has a steady sugar daddy. I do sometimes feel like I am behind his  Mother, kids, farm, etc. It gets old. He tries to make a conscious effort, but its still at times aggravating. I don't think I am not moving on because of the ex, its all the other issues. Somedays, not sure we ever will get to that place. For now, I am ok with it. 

 

His ex is still bat shit crazy..bought a car very similar to my old car (so I traded my old one in and got a new one)- Sugar Daddy and her bought a house together. Tiny brick ranch like mine. On New Years we took all of our kids to the mountains ski resort. She goes to the other ski resort. (But has never skied and used to hate the mountains) When I changed my FB profile pic to NG and myself in the mountains..within an hour she changed hers to her and new guy..wearing the same type of hat and scarf I had on. We have a handful of mutual friends who brought it to my attention. It's just bizarre. So I stay away, no contact. In 3 years, I am polite but cool. She's just too crazy for me to get involved in that mess. 

 

Like you, I focus on my kids and I will admit, I no longer focus much on his. It's too much drama/jealousy on the ex's part so I am nice, but my kids are my top priority. Selfish, yes..Self preservation-yes. Staying in my bubble- absolutely. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Welcome to the second month of 2020 (already)! 

 

How is everyone doing? trying2, how are you?

 

I just got back from my first work trip of the year; so far, I have three more booked between now and early June. I keep busy and leave the rest to be as it will :) BF seems amazed at times that I do all the things I do, that I will get on the phone with friends and just laugh until we cry and talk for hours, that I'll watch church service in the bedroom but then go out for tea with my friend from church after, that I'll happily stay in my office and on the computer until after dark, or that I'll stay in bed for 13 hours when given the chance. There are days when it's obvious he's too tightly wound to just let go like that. It's nice that he laughs more; it's been a tough couple years for him but if he sticks around me, we'll have none of that for much longer. 

 

I wonder if it boils down to maturity in a way. After a major loss (or several), many of us just press forward. We can't carry the baggage and want to enjoy our time here. Others get very stuck, afraid they'll lose more than before I suppose if they step out of those old spaces. I don't know ... just early morning musings here.

 

Hoping to hear what's going on for each of you in this new decade so far -- and praying you all are well!

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Happy February - gosh this year is going fast isn't it?   Things are going okay here - it's day to day with my Dad,  he's frail and currently in a rehab facility.  Life revolves around him right now and is taking up much of my time, but I'm grateful that he's still with us and hoping that he can recuperate enough to be content and comfortable.  

 

Good to hear your update, arneal - you do sound busy these days!  I relate to letting the little things go and enjoying life in a different way.  Maybe it's maturity and it's also relative to each of us, our coping skills and personal baggage.  Certainly have those days when I stress the little stuff too, but for the most part realize what deserves attention and what I can let go.  Glad that your NG is witnessing your growth and enjoying it too - maybe some of that will rub off on him too as you say.   

 

Any plans for Valentine's Day?  I found a sweet card for NG today, will most likely just go with that and not a gift.  I've always found it hard to gift my guy on Valentine's Day, I think it's such a contrived holiday that I usually ask that he do nothing big for me either.   

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Hey there, trying2 -- so glad to hear from you and that you all are doing okay in the midst of everything. It's not easy, for sure.

 

Well, since V-day is two days after my birthday, we're doing something whether he's really feeling it or not 🤣. I just got a couple of new dresses, one of which is all slinky and sexy, but we'd need to maybe go to the comedy club and have a meal or something on say Saturday evening for that. The other dress would be good for brunch on Friday or Sunday even. He hasn't seen either of them and I mentioned doing something about two or three weeks ago, but didn't get a response really. I am looking to go out to lunch with one of my church friends as her birthday is a few days before mine. That first and then I'll figure out what to do with this man 😃 Funny you mention gifts. I had ordered this cool thing for his birthday. Last year. Because it was a prototype and they got delayed, it didn't get delivered until just a few days ago. Sigh. He was happy with it though! Since then, he's been occupied with work-related things that I hope will really inspire him to press forward with the business. I've asked God what I can do and the thing is, I can't be more excited about BF's thing than he is. Maybe he is excited and just low-key about it, cautious not to be too positive, you know? However, if he's not pressing forward hard, I certainly can't. After all, I do have a full-time gig and plenty of other things on my plate for the decade, including my writing. I just got a new software program for scriptwriting and am taking a class on scriptreading. No grass growing under these feet 😉

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Thanks arneal - it's good to catch up here every once in awhile.  Hope our other "treaders" are doing well too.   

 

The belated birthday gift to your NG sounds interesting ... glad that he liked it.   My NG is very low-key and cautious too, he's had some great opportunities that he may have turned down that I encouraged him to pursue.  I think I bring an openness and a what do you have to lose mentality that's been a different way of thinking for him.  Part of that widowhood shift in trying to live life in a fuller way with no regrets?  

 

 Posting about gifting and it makes me think about maybe finding something nice for NG.  Yes it's a contrived holiday, and it's a switch from what I normally do but it would be nice to get him a little something.   Any ideas on what to gift your boyfriend for Valentine's Day?   Would appreciate a male perspective on this too 🙂

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trying2 -- if you have a little extra $$, maybe a massage, just for him. Particularly if he's on the stressed side. Or if he's game, a couple's massage? Is he a tinkerer? Maybe something to put together ... 

 

I was just texting my friend and it looks like we're going out on Saturday for a combo birthday lunch. She has to work later but we'll have a couple hours to chat and chew. BF will likely forage for leftovers lol. Depending on how it all looks, I might grab takeout for dinner from the same place. We'll see! I'm still debating on the V-day go-out for he and I. I've never been one to do a lot of going out but since I work from home, I can easily turn feral ... forgetting what it's like to be around other humans (extra-easy when there's two large dogs and a Maine Coon cat who thinks he's more dog than the dogs around all the time). He's such a home-body as well, BF. I at least travel for work about once every month or 1.5 months so I get immersed in people, but he can stay in and to himself better than I can, and that's saying something! Anyway, let us know what you decide on for your guy, trying2 and how he likes it!

 

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Thanks for the ideas, thinking I’m sticking with just the card.  Gifted him a massage for his birthday in October and he still hasn’t cashed it in 😜 It gets to the point where it’s a gift just for the sake of giving a gift, I have a hard time with this so gonna pass on giving this year.  I’m not expecting anything either - being together is enough.
 

arneal  Sounds like you’ve got a lot of energy going, hope your birthday lunch was fun.  Not much leisure time here because of my Dad’s care, and I usually have to light a fire under my guy to get out.  He’s got a bum knee these days so it’s been hard to get out and do much but oh well - this too shall pass. 
 

Hope you enjoy your Birthday! 🎉 

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Hi, trying2! I'm laughing because you can tell I have no clue about gift-giving!!! 

 

Yes, our lunch on Saturday was great. When I came out of the bedroom that morning, BF was like 'where are you going, all dressed up' (I wasn't really dressed up but since I try to stay in my jammies on Saturdays, it was different). He wanted to know where we went and what we had. I'm thinking about going back to the same place on Saturday coming maybe for a Valentine's lunch. I haven't decided yet :)

 

I don't expect to do anything on my birthday since it's a weekday, but that's okay. I am doing more, health-wise ... as it's a new decade, I realize I need to attend to those things. I have a new medical doctor and have been very intentional about keeping my appointments; the new doctor set me up for bloodwork and so on. I am also looking to change my life insurance provider and need to do a medical check for that, which I've scheduled. I've even gotten in with a new dentist. 

 

I'm looking also to maybe take that pottery class I've been thinking about, but with the other things I've taken on it might not be possible yet. 

 

BF has been pretty open these last few days. He tends to keep his feelings in but he has shared a little more here and there. My son sent us a Valentine's Day card and then called. While I was on the phone with him, BF asked me if that was him. When I said yes, he sent a 'hello' back and also read the card. I know it's hard because his daughters are not in his life. My son isn't really in mine much either but we at least keep in 'distance' touch :)

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  • 1 month later...

Nothing new here. Still swimming! NG has this new tendency to dream of more than we can do at this point - cohabitation, getting to sleep with one another every night, see each other every day. I am open to this next step but I’m a scientist. I need to analyze all angles and outcomes. It’s just what I do. I know not to hope too much and just live in the now. I’m always plan for the worst and hope for the best. I do know if this doesn’t work out, I will be okay. I have plenty of friends and family who do care for me and it can be enough. 

 

I was talking to a long time friend and we were talking about what do we do with ourselves when we retire. I said let’s buy a large parcel of land and make our own little village. We can each have our own little cottage and a central  clubhouse for gatherings, classes, and exercise. I can imagine a future without a partner in it but it’s just one possible reality. Before when LH passed, I couldn’t even do that let alone contemplate.

 

I don’t know where NG and I will be but I know I have a plan for myself if it’s just meant to be me. I feel I am flexible to alter my future whatever what may come.

Edited by Julester3
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Hey Jules! I was just thinking about everyone here yesterday ... your post resonates with me so much. BF isn't the dreamer in this duo though; that's me lol. I think it's because BF hasn't ever had anyone who let him or encouraged him to dream. I do it all the time, talking about having a big property and a fabulous kitchen, doing what we want. Right now, BF is doing more to build his business as he has had a few jobs of late, which is great. I'm looking at other work possibilities. I'm not desperate for a new gig, but I feel ready for the change. If it comes, it does and if it doesn't, I like what I do so I'm good with that too.

 

I've been thinking about starting some sort of counseling, just to have that 'disinterested third party' to hear all the things rolling around in my head. I want a virtual option as I don't want to drive to a center or anything. I've been doing more for my health, having found a good doctor (my last one stopped taking my insurance). I've done everything she's asked me to -- bloodwork, mammo, colonoscopy test. I've even gone to the dentist and had a broken tooth removed and the temporary bridge put in, all this in the last month. I'm thinking of getting a passport again; I put in to do a poster presentation at a conference in South Africa and wow, wouldn't that be something to actually go and present it instead of just submitting ... I have more work-related out of town trips this year and will go to visit my mom later this month and am planning for a second visit later in the year.

 

We are comfortable and we'll be what we'll be. And that's okay.

 

Hoping everyone else is doing well!

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Good to get updates, it's been so quiet here lately.  NG and I continue to bumble along, some progress on co-habitating but no solid plan and that's fine with me.  I continue to question whether we should be together, he's a good man but there are some issues lately that have me worried about our future together.  With the recommendation of social distancing may take some time to be apart for a little while and figure things out.  Jules, the retirement village sounds like a great idea!  I also can imagine a future without a partner. 

 

On 3/11/2020 at 11:31 AM, Julester3 said:

I don’t know where NG and I will be but I know I have a plan for myself if it’s just meant to be me. I feel I am flexible to alter my future whatever what may come.

       

              ^^ Yes!

 

 

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Hey there, trying2! Hoping you are doing well. Funny you mention shelter in place ... since I work from a home office and BF has his own business, things are pretty much the same here as they always have been :D He has had more business calls but they've dried up a bit since all the health issues. He had a call on Saturday and it went well but nothing scheduled right now. We'll see. Things press on for me. I work, I write, I make my calls to family, I get calls from family ... what can we do, right? I nudge BF to do a few things around the house that I suspect he's stopped doing over the years because of his own family of origin issues. However, as much as I can sympathize, this is the now: I refuse to do everything while holding down a full-time job, even though it is remote work. Interestingly, he said that his ex was allegedly working from home but work was not particularly evident. He certainly can't say that about me, with all the video conferencing he sees me doing every day. He probably knows a few of my spiels to faculty by heart, since I pretty much say the same thing to every person I supervise LOL! I'd be sad if we didn't continue and grow together, but like being widowed twice, the world doesn't stop and wouldn't if we were to part ways. I don't foresee that at the moment, but in my heart and soul know I could deal if it did.

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arneal   I'm doing okay, good to hear that you are doing well.  I'm glad that life for you goes on with little disruption.  I'm encouraging my 84 y/o mother to slow down and think before she heads out on her usual errands.  She's so stubborn :/  and tells me that she can't stop her life.   We're early on in the process, have to wonder what this will be like in 4 weeks and beyond. 

 

Yup - shelter in place.  Gives me a chance to clear out my space. With DD home from college, she sorted her upstairs bedroom closet and will work on the rest of her bedroom drawers this week.  My Dad's house will be sold soon, and we'll use it to sell some household items there too.  Gives me a bit of an uplift to know that some downtime means that progress can be made to sort, organize and purge some excess stuff.  

 

I'm a few days in not contacting NG, trying to figure out whether to move forward with him. On Sunday my brother had a gathering - my mom, daughter,  NG and his daughter and a few neighbors for a BBQ.  NG's daughter was super quiet and left early, strange.   NG words and actions that afternoon were so different than the man that I know, and very offensive to me.  My mom and daughter both mentioned later that he was slurring his words, and my daughter said that she thought that maybe he was high.  Haven't talked to him about what was going on yet, I'm so po'd about his "impairment".  Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions about his use of pills or weed but going to a family gathering under the influence - WTF!!   This might be IT with him.  I don't know if I should give him a chance to explain.  My boundaries have shifted the past few years but I'm not willing to put up with this kind of s***,  regardless of the explanation. 

 

Sigh..... I'm sad and trying to process a lot right now.  Hope everybody is staying healthy and active as much as possible.  Strange new world that we're in now.   

 

 

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Oh trying2 ... I suppose we all have our ways of escaping but yes. How does one assume it's okay to go to someone's gathering under the influence of anything -- weed, pills, alcohol? If the thing is he doesn't realize he's not in control, that's a whole different conversation that you may not want to have. However, it's only fair to let him know that you had a problem with his behaviors. Maybe his daughter noticed as well and was embarrassed but didn't want to call her dad out. If he's nervous around your people, he should be adult enough to admit it. Then there's the opportunity for open communication.

 

Not that it's even remotely the same thing, but I remember a couple times that I cooked something that BF didn't like. He was vaguely complimentary as he ate it but didn't go back for more (he's usually a multi-helping, eat leftovers sort of person). I can't remember what I said later, but it may not have even been related to that specific meal. I think I asked him how he liked something cooked. He was almost sheepish and told me the thing he didn't like much (which was connected to whatever it was I had cooked). I may have shared this story here some time ago, but he said he was grateful to have someone cook and basically didn't want to screw it up by saying he didn't like it. I reminded him of where I'm from, that my life is one of truth over hurt feelings about things like that ... if you don't tell me what you like or don't, I won't know. No harm no foul -- if I make something and you don't like it, say so or I'm likely to make it again. I've even punctuated the point when he's been slow to eat things or chooses something else. Either I toss what's left (if it's a wee bit), freeze it, or eat it myself and let him cook for himself. 

 

I share that to say if your BF had said he was uncomfortable, you all could have talked it out. Maybe made the decision for him not to go. Something. But to try and 'get rid' of the discomfort in some way is no bueno. 

 

I do hope you have an opportunity to talk with him. Or even better that he speaks up first. Praying that in this down-time you can think of potential ways to share how you feel and also prepare some replies should he speak up. May your decision and process be guided by wisdom, always! {{{hugs}}}

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Thank you, arneal.  You provide words of comfort and wisdom.  It would be great if he spoke up first, but I'm not expecting this.  He knows something is off and  he may not know why.   At the least I owe him an explanation of how I feel.  I don't know why NG would have been uncomfortable - he's been with my family many times over the past few years.  I realize that this is my perspective of his experience.  It was embarrassing - he was visibly and very significantly impaired in front of my family and friends.  And if he's not aware of his level of impairment, well that's a whole 'nother level that I don't know if I can deal with.  

 

I remember your post about BF mentioning how he appreciated somebody cooking for him and didn't want to screw it up.  My DH did the same with my cooking, he would not return for seconds and would be polite in putting the dishes away.  I would realize that maybe it was a dish that he didn't like and he would reluctantly talk about it.   Maybe it's kinder in a man's mind to not be forward about these kinds of things?  I don't know - NG has been fully accepted by my family, I thought he knew this.  To deal with his emotions by getting drunk-high-whatever - in front of family - is not acceptable.  

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