Eureka!

[TheWidowWhisperer]

Yesterday over eggs with a friend that I realized that not only could I get out of a 2nd date with a man who was coming on too strong but the way to do it was by telling him the truth! It felt revelatory. Simply by saying; "Anthony Bourdain's death was a trigger for me, I'm having a hard time" I could scare him away for good. The truth could set me free. 

 

I try not to get any of my widow stuff on men I date. Sure it comes up, and I don't shy from talking about my husband in relationships, but I rarely if ever talk about being sad. Funnily enough I still think these men should demonstrate a little sensitivity and be nicer to me than perhaps they usually are. When the most serious relationship I had (post widowhood) ended, I was stunned when the man told me my widowhood was my problem like his (15 year) divorce was his. I had just told him that lying to a widow about feelings and intentions was not an okay thing to do. Clearly he disagreed.

So back to yesterday. I've wanted out of this 2nd date since I agreed to it. I agreed to it just to shut him up. He was coming on so strong (physically as well as verbally) and I just wanted a clear exit. He's a nice looking man that checks a lot of the boxes but the coming on too strong is a complete and utter turn off. He doesn't see me or have any interest in seeing me. He wants a woman. A partner. A bedmate. A wife. If pawing me all night wasn't indication enough, inviting me to London for our second date was. Still not convinced? He insisted we'd have to share a room. Okay, you wanna chalk that up to "never hurts to ask", fine. What about when I tell him I don't eat pork and he takes me to a (very fancy) restaurant known as a pork restaurant. There was one dish I could eat. Clearly he not only didn't see me but didn't hear me. In the days after the date he asked THREE times if I could see him on Sunday. Twice I told him I was busy. I ran outta steam by the third query. 

So sitting with my friend, talking about how sad I've been the past few days we came up with a plan. It was so simple, so liberating, so freeing. Just tell him the truth. This man will run for the hills. And just like that he texted. You couldn't wish for a better cinematic moment. "How's your weekend going?" "Not great. I've been having a hard time" "Oh, I'm sorry to hear. What's wrong?" "I think Anthony Bourdain was really a trigger for me." "Are you still up for tomorrow?" - TA DA!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you get that ending? I shared that I was having a hard time regarding death and loss and his response is about the date. It was all just so easy. Getting out of it, getting confirmation of who he is...the truth really will set you free!

 

[Portside]

I'm confused WW - why is it/was it so hard to simply break the date as this guy clearly isn't a match for you? You agreed to it "just to shut him up" - As soon as you realized that, couldn't you have called and said "I changed my mind", or something to that effect?

 

Best wishes - Mike

[Abitlost]

WW,

 

I'm sorry you were triggered by the recent celebrity death.

 

A few notes for you to ponder regarding your eureka moment. In my experience, I agree that being honest about your feelings is the best approach. However, from what you wrote, that's not really what you did. You had decided you didn't want to go on a second date long before the recent trigger -- you didn't like that he came on too strong, or that he took you to a restaurant where you had little to choose from, or that he wanted to go to London and share a room for your second date. That's your truth right there. Still, you accepted another date with regrets just to shut him up? My advice to you would be to be more honest with yourself. He didn't take you to a pork restaurant against your will - you agreed to go there knowing your own eating restrictions. That's on you. You didn't like his forwardness yet still made another date. I'm not saying this guy deserves a second date (he wouldn't get one with me either!), but be honest with yourself...I think if you speak up for yourself in real time you might find better matches.

 

Redo: Date: WW, let's go to Pork Restaurant for our first date. WW: I don't eat pork and don't want to go there; how about Restaurant X? 

Redo 2: Date: WW, let's go to London for our second date and share a room! WW: No, I am not interested in going away with someone I just met or sharing a room with him. You are coming on too strongly and I don't like it.

Redo 3: Date: WW, can we have a second date on Sunday? WW: No, you are not the right match for me but I wish you all the best in finding what you are looking for.

 

abl

[fairlanegirl]

Not sure why you need an excuse not to go out with someone? You are obviously not keen on him, let the both of you waste no more of each other's time!

[sudnlysngl]

WW, I think it's fine however YOU choose to go about it. It's obvious the guy wasn't listening or interested in YOU to begin with! Sounds to me he was only thinking with his crotch and nothing else! He must of been a real boar!!! And yes, pun intended....

Sounds like one of those people that thinks NO means Yes, and just doesn't understand boundaries  or others feelings. There is a reason that guy is still alone....

[Love2fish]

Good for you WW.  Seems that you figured what needed to be done pretty quickly.

Looking back now I think that if a few of the ladies I dated had been so astute they might have saved us both some time  

[Bunny]

Im not sure, but maybe the problem WW might be experiencing is something a lot of women can relate to- feeling the need to be nice and polite even when the man does not deserve it. Many girls are taught from a young age to be sweet and to placate boys. I have to say, in my younger years, I  faced some serious hostility from men in response to my  polite yet firm rejection of their overtures. It’s funny- and alarming- how a woman can go from the perceived status of goddess to whore in a matter of seconds to a spurred man’s eyes. A man who refuses to walk away even after its clear this is going nowhere.  

 

What’s that saying? Men are afraid of a woman laughing at them, women are afraid of a man killing them. It’s easy enough to say- just be honest, but some people make that reallllly fuckin’ hard to do. I have had to do some serious talkin’ to get out of a few very scary situations with men. Some of them can be quite aggressive or persistent, and have zero comprehension when it comes to reading a situation. Yes, use your words is good advice, but sometimes the other party remains stubbornly tone-deaf. 

[calimom]

Many people were affect edby Anthony Boudain's death: SOS, garden variety widows, chefs, appreciators of his shows, travelers, et al. He was a force of nature and the loss is astounding. To use this loss as an excuse to get out of a date with a man that you're not physically, emotionally or socially attracted to seems a little …cheap. Ot's ok to tell him that you're just not feeling it and the two of you are not a good fit. Just because he checks some boxes on what you or your friends think is immaterial. As the late, great, Nora Ephron said, "everything is copy", that this experience might be good fodder for your blog, sure. But you don't have to continue to see this guy if you don't want to, and you don't need to use the death of a celebrity to have aTa Da! moment in order to get out of it. Just be honest with him and with yourself.

 

[TheWidowWhisperer]

A minor point but one I feel compelled to make: we had drinks and then walked to a nearby restaurant. After we were seated and I looked at the menu I realized it was a pork place. When I told a girlfriend about it later she said; "yes, they're famous for their pork." Our original destination was a mediterranean restaurant which was a style of food I had expressly requested. I don't know why there was a change in restaurant.

I was willing to try a second date originally because sometimes you need more information. I think I stated above that I did find him attractive and he was interesting.

 

As I became more mired in my sadness over the weekend, the last thing I wanted to do was spend time with a new person. His reaction upon hearing I was sad was all I needed to know about him. There was no empathy whatsoever. 

 

I strongly disagree that I had any obligation whatsoever to tell someone who clearly wasn't showing any empathy towards me anything more than I wasn't up to seeing him. 

 

To those who think I was cheap or cowardly, if you've never felt cornered by a person's strong personality or never felt physically overwhelmed by someone, I envy you. Online dating (or any dating) can be a little creepy and the idea of making an enemy in the dark is not something I embrace. When someone has followed you to the ladies room and is pressed against you saying; "when can I see you? come to San Francisco with me this week? I'll come back early to see you? I don't want to wait to see you!" what exactly would you say? Please don't think of it theoretically, empathize; put yourself in that situation. It's late, you've actually enjoyed his company and there is an attraction. What would you do?

 

I am surprised and a bit stung by what I sense as some hostility to what I shared. Mr. Bourdain's death struck very close to home. And the realization that I actually did not have to keep my grief hidden from people who potentially want to have a relationship with me was stunning. I have been dating for about 3 years and have never wanted to burden anyone with my loss and continued sadness. It was equally stunning to realize that sharing the lows would actually go far in helping who was worthy of the highs.

 

I appreciate those posts who sound supportive and understanding, but it hurts a bit to read those that sound chastising and angry.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by TheWidowWhisperer

[sudnlysngl]

10 hours ago, Bunny said:

Im not sure, but maybe the problem WW might be experiencing is something a lot of women can relate to- feeling the need to be nice and polite even when the man does not deserve it. Many girls are taught from a young age to be sweet and to placate boys. I have to say, in my younger years, I  faced some serious hostility from men in response to my  polite yet firm rejection of their overtures. It’s funny- and alarming- how a woman can go from the perceived status of goddess to whore in a matter of seconds to a spurred man’s eyes. A man who refuses to walk away even after its clear this is going nowhere.  

 

What’s that saying? Men are afraid of a woman laughing at them, women are afraid of a man killing them. It’s easy enough to say- just be honest, but some people make that reallllly fuckin’ hard to do. I have had to do some serious talkin’ to get out of a few very scary situations with men. Some of them can be quite aggressive or persistent, and have zero comprehension when it comes to reading a situation. Yes, use your words is good advice, but sometimes the other party remains stubbornly tone-deaf. 

This says it all!  Some people are just plain mean and psychotic, and clearly this man WAS NOT listening to her nor did he give a damn what she said or thought! So to those of you who made some rather nasty comments about her using someone else's death as a way to "get out" of  the date with this person, REALLY?

Have YOU taken a moment to think about what makes YOU stop and think about your dh/dw? What is that pull for you?

My goodness is there no compassion anymore???

Besides, did WW date affect any of us? Not me, but I'm glad she has this place to come to....

Type on WW....

[Trying]

There was no reason for anyone to be so critical of you and I'm sorry you were hurt by some of the responses.  I for one am not perfect and more times than I can count I look back on uncomfortable interactions and second guess things I said or didn't say.   Dating at this stage in life whether it's as a widow/er or a divorced person is complicated and there is probably something to learn from each encounter.  Who are any of us to judge what your "ta da" moment was?

[Portside]

The beauty of any open forum such as this to be exposed to ideas and reactions different from that of our own for a given situation. A alternative view is not necessarily angry - tone is notoriously difficult to convey in text only.  

 

WW, honestly not taking shots at you. As I said, I was confused by your path. I still am kind of but, I am certainly trying to get your POV. That's how I learn.

 

Thanks for expanding on your initial post.

 

Best wishes - Mike

 

 

[Abitlost]

WW,

 

I’m sorry if you took offense to my post. I specifically stated that from what you had written, it seemed that you were not being honest.

 

Your original post read that you had a list of reasons why you didn’t want to see him again, but agreed anyway to “shut him up”, and then Anthony Bourdain’s death triggered you, so your plan was to “scare him away for good”/get him to “run for the hills” by telling him the truth, but instead of telling him the truth you had expressed here of why you didn’t want to see him again (“…coming on too strong is a complete and utter turn off. He doesn't see me or have any interest in seeing me. He wants a woman. A partner. A bedmate. A wife. If pawing me all night wasn't indication enough, inviting me to London for our second date was. Still not convinced? He insisted we'd have to share a room. Okay, you wanna chalk that up to "never hurts to ask", fine. What about when I tell him I don't eat pork and he takes me to a (very fancy) restaurant known as a pork restaurant. There was one dish I could eat. Clearly he not only didn't see me but didn't hear me.”, ), you told him you were sad. Yet instead of scaring him away, he still asked to see you. I am not debating whether you find him empathetic or not, or if you should see him again, but I’m not sure you see the inconsistencies in your statements…leading to my advice that you be honest with yourself.

 

Minor example: this statement from your original post, “I’ve wanted out of this 2nd date since I agreed to it. I agreed to it just to shut him up.” conflicts with this sentiment from your second post “I was willing to try a second date originally because sometimes you need more information.” It’s okay to change your mind, but don’t be surprised when members of the board react to what you have written. This is a forum where nuances are hard to interpret and details often omitted. All we have to go off of it what you have written. My advice stands that you just be honest with yourself. If you had already decided you didn’t want to see him, if it were me, I would just tell him that and move on. You don’t need an excuse or to justify yourself to him or anyone else. Just be true to yourself.

 

Edited to add:

Your second post seems to indicate that your revelation was more geared toward sharing your grief with potential suitors, "the realization that I actually did not have to keep my grief hidden from people who potentially want to have a relationship with me was stunning. I have been dating for about 3 years and have never wanted to burden anyone with my loss and continued sadness. It was equally stunning to realize that sharing the lows would actually go far in helping who was worthy of the highs." WW, perhaps you can see how from what was written originally that this revelation seems to be an afterthought to your original intention, where you described that you had already decided that you didn't want to see him again and that sharing your sadness was designed to send him running for the hills. I'm all in favor of sharing feelings and honesty, but hopefully you can see where the confusion and reaction came from.

 

abl

Edited June 12, 2018 by Abitlost