Rant about the DGI's..... (Don't get it's.....)

[RyanAmysMom]

I read some of your comments recently about the DGI's.... and was amused..... and frustrated....  

And then I had these conversations with NG over the past few days:

 

Friday is our 3rd anniversary without hubby/daddy....

 

 

I asked NG to give us some space for a couple of days.....

"Why?" 

"Because we're having a rough couple of days."

"Why?" 

Seriously? 

 

 

"I can't go to dinner because the kids and I are going to a family therapy session."

"Why?"

Seriously?

 

 

"My son is showing some passive aggressive anger about me dating."

"Why"

"How would you feel if you saw your mom with a new guy?"

"Oh." 

 

 

"I'm going to the cemetery to visit for a few...."

"Can I come along?"

Seriously? 

 

 

At this point, it's a cross between hilarious, sad, and worrysome that he's a non-empathetic psychopath...... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sudnlysngl]

3 hours ago, RyanAmysMom said:

 

At this point, it's a cross between hilarious, sad, and worrysome that he's a non-empathetic psychopath...... 

 



I'm sorry when I read this sentence I almost gasped! I just divorced a non-empathetic psychopath! SERIOUSLY! 

Those questions after 3 years with him don't set well with me, please be careful.... just saying....

 

[Virgo]

How long have you been dating your NG?

[Portside]

 

You are exasperated with your guy, call him derogatory names (DGI) and then complain to strangers about what you think is his poor behavior?

 

Oh, and now some jump onto the "he may be a psychopath!!" bandwagon simply because? Because of what? Please.

 

From this short exchange, we are presented with almost nothing except your guy not being in sync with you. Could it be he wanted to go with you and fam to the cemetery for support? Yes? It's possible.

 

This is why I lose my shit when we all so easily throw the "DGI" slur towards anyone. Are we all here a monolithic block with only one or two lines of thought that are approved? And anyone that strays from that path is shunned, ostracized, pointed at and made fun of? Who gets to decide that anyway? You? Me? No. Even the subset of humans known as widows/widowers have a wide range of what is okay, not okay, acceptable and unacceptable. We are all individuals  

 

You're taking the lazy way - calling him names. If NG is not for you, and truly doesn't get you, unload him. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. If you are out of sync, talk it out and resolve it (or don't). It he takes more from you than he adds to your life, dump him.

 

This isn't hard. 

 

Happy Friday. I need a Snickers.

 

Mike

[RyanAmysMom]

Wow, Mike.. thanks for making this a safe, supportive place to share.......  

 

 

 

FTR.....  Only known this guy 2 months....  He's a grown-ass adult, and _should_ understand that there are family dynamics at work here.  He's experienced loss as well.....  I have been surprised at the amount of explaining I've had to do... I _assumed_ he'd be a little more insightful about relationships, grief, etc......  

 

[sudnlysngl]

RAM, only 2 months and he has experienced loss himself too and is acting this way! Girl , kick that psychopathic ass to the curb, or do what YOU want! 

If you want pm and I will tell you more of the manipulating crap my recent ex pulled on me, cause this guy your dealing with sounds like he might be related to him.

Wishing you the best RAM, keep your chin up. Your a strong woman, listen to your gut instinct .😉

[trying2breathe]

RAM   Maybe NG is trying to further understand what you're going through as a widow?   As I was in the process of getting to know my now BF,  we had a lot of conversations about my being widowed, and he would often offer support in ways that in my opinion wasn't appropriate.  There were lots of questions and some awkwardness in the beginning.  And yes, I would say that he was a DGI at the start.    But if you continue to be out of sync with NG and he just doesn't get you, hmmm ......

 

Mike  I hope you got that Snickers, maybe two 😉  

[Virgo]

That is why I asked how long you two had been dating. I think even under normal circumstances at two months you're still getting to know each other. It sounds like he's trying to get it. Give him a chance. If you're not comfortable sharing that part of your life with him yet then tell him so he doesn't feel like you're shutting him down. 

[tybec]

 

“It is hard to have patience with people who say, ‘There is no death’ or ‘Death doesn’t matter.’ There is death. And whatever is matters. And whatever happens has consequences, and it and they are irrevocable and irreversible. You might as well say that birth doesn’t matter. I look up at the night sky. Is anything more certain than that in all those vast times and spaces, if I were allowed to search them, I should nowhere find her face, her voice, her touch? She died. She is dead. Is the word so difficult to learn?" -C.S. Lewis

 

Sorry NG is being as my “NG” states of himself, sometimes, obtuse. I hear your frustration.  I understand .   Family therapy?  Why?  I would go “really?” also.   My ng is divorced and I get frustrated but then Regroup and try to understand, read, talk to divorced friends to get it.  I vent also.  All good.  Keep on keeping on. 😊

 

portside, I usually appreciate your direct, logical no nonsense responses.  Yup, you need a snickers or something.  Ryansamysmom is expressing something many of us have felt.  Doesn’t mean she is treating her NG terribly, but sharing out loud something she can’t to others irl.  Anyhow. 

[StillWidowed]

The thing I've learned after grief, loss, dating and one screwed up relationship, is that if you get that nagging feeling in your gut, listen to it.  If a man doesn't have some kind of empathy and can't at least admit to not understanding, then give pause. If he's willing to listen to your answers with empathy and understanding, great.  Just tread carefully and LET HIM UNFOLD.  We need to slow down and find out who exactly we're dating before we get our hearts involved.  Just sayin'. 

 

Portside, I think those of us that are further out sometimes forget how it was in the beginning and the patience we lacked when we were still grieving.  At two years out, I was still very raw.  But I dig your responses whether I agree or not. 

 

BTW, I love C.S. Lewis.

[fairlanegirl]

People don't experience loss in the same way though; he may be genuinely befuddled. Going to the cemetery with you - maybe he thought it would help? I don't tell my bloke when I am going, he doesn't ask, I realise that is not possible for everyone. He is perfectly comfortable about my widowed status though.

SW you make a good point: those of us further out do tend to be more tolerant, if that's the word, than those raw earlier times.

Without knowing any more, I wouldn't write the poor bugger off as a psychopath!

[canadiangirl]

DGI is not a slur and calling it that is ridiculous. It makes it falsely and egregiously equivalent with true slurs that diminish society. Portside, your belittling posts like these are a reason I rarely visit anymore. It is not okay. You need to stop. RAM, I am glad he is at least asking questions to try to understand- I hope things get better. 

[BrokenHeart2]

Well said CG!  I hope you come back more often. 

RAM, hugs to you and I hope it works out for you.  BTW.... rant away, most of us get it! 

[Portside]

Good morning Canadiangirl!  

 

As always, I am interested in dissenting viewpoints from my own. It gives me a chance to reflect and ponder my advice and thoughts that I put forth here. I've given your comments the weight they deserve and have decided to reject them in their entirety.

 

Using the term *DGI* is, and remains, to me, a slur because it takes the form as all other slurs do: it reduces a group of people to a monolithic block that insults them or attempts to minimize any contribution they might make based simply on the fact that the group has not experienced the same events, and does not think the way some others think they should. The rules of this forum value diversity of all types and diversity of thought is one of the most basic. When someone tars another with the DGI label, they shut down any possible dialog with that person with the resultant consequence of no possible common ground. I'm sure we can all agree that the pursuit of common ground is a fine step to take to resolve any conflict or misunderstanding. 

 

One of the true beauties of this forum is the owners and moderators commitment to all voices being heard. Because of that commitment, there is sure to be disagreement among the posters now and then as we all have our individual ideas, approach and tone. Mature folks know that a dissenting voice is not automatically a lack of support. I too hope that RAMs issues with NG are resolved easily and happily. One can consider dissent an invitation to reflect and review ones own approach to a specific problem. Is that not one of the primary purposes of this forum?

 

What I have to say, whether it meets with someone's approval here or not, is okay as long as it falls within the rules of the forum. I will not stop.  

 

Btw, scolding isn't very effective if you want to reach me. Point out a logic mistake or a new way to view something, or add facts to support your case and I'm your guy. :)

 

I pray you have a great day - be well, Mike

 

 

[Captains wife]

RAM - I skipped over the interim posts as I don't like negative banter on here. But I am glad you came here to rant - which is what you needed to do, and its understandable given the lack of empathy you received. Sometime when my NG says certain things or does certain things its sooo triggering.

[hachi]

5 hours ago, Portside said:

Using the term *DGI* is, and remains, to me, a slur because it takes the form as all other slurs do: it reduces a group of people to a monolithic block that insults them or attempts to minimize any contribution they might make based simply on the fact that the group has not experienced the same events, and does not think the way some others think they should.

 

In my opinion, DGI is not necessarily a slur. Most people who "don't get it" are not shut down in the way you say. Most of us don't exclaim "you just don't get it!" and stop talking. Even in the OP's post, when he didn't get it, she explained. And her post was entitled "rant".  In the spirit of helping you with your reflection, I would gently advise you to consider the context before you "lose your shit" and accuse someone of taking the "the lazy way". 

 

Hope you got your snickers bar, you did sound a little cranky!

 

 

[RyanAmysMom]

I am grateful for all of the opinions here...  My darling NG and I have had many discussions over the past few days about the things that he just doesn't seem to "get."  And some things, he truly doesn't understand, so we've talked.... some things, he just doesn't perceive the same way that I do (or doesn't think they should be "issues").... and we've talked.....  I am left still feeling like he's lacking in the empathy department, but he's willing to listen, and so am I..... 

 

My biggest peeve with this situation was that I was in the midst of my anniversary days, the height of my grief, and having to stop and explain why those days were difficult just added so much more stress......  

[sudnlysngl]

1 hour ago, RyanAmysMom said:

"I am grateful for all of the opinions here...  My darling NG and I have had many discussions over the past few days about the things that he just doesn't seem to "get."  And some things, he truly doesn't understand, so we've talked.... some things, he just doesn't perceive the same way that I do (or doesn't think they should be "issues").... and we've talked.....  I am left still feeling like he's lacking in the empathy department, but he's willing to listen, and so am I..... 

 

My biggest peeve with this situation was that I was in the midst of my anniversary days, the height of my grief, and having to stop and explain why those days were difficult just added so much more stress......  

This reminds me of the days when the saying was out of , "men are from Mars and women are from Venus"...🙄

[SadSue]

There is a lot of truth in the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". In my experience most women tend (not all ) to be emotional thinkers in matters of the heart etc. Most men tend ( not all ) to be logical thinkers.  Give the guy a chance to see where it goes. Everyone handlers grief in different ways. He may only need to be shone the "light".😃

[faye]

I had Late Husband cremated, in a box in the house for several years. I didn't know what else to do with him. A new cemetery opened near me. Man-friend was the one who pretty much organized the committal service. He goes with me when I go to the cemetery. Name-calling, or labeling someone as a sociopath when a companion offers to come is frankly a little judge-y.  I, too, wince at the DGI label (as I do other derogatory labels)  It's hard to comfort people about loss anyway, especially in Western cultures where talking about death is discouraged.  Each situation is different.  When Mom died, I was frustrated when someone said, "She's in a better place."  When Late Husband died, and someone said exactly the same thing, I prayed they were right. He certainly wasn't happy here. What is comforting to one person might evoke sadness in another. It isn't fair to expect people to be mind-readers.

Edited July 24, 2018 by faye

[canadiangirl]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 9:11 AM, Portside said:

One of the true beauties of this forum is the owners and moderators commitment to all voices being heard. Because of that commitment, there is sure to be disagreement among the posters now and then as we all have our individual ideas, approach and tone. Mature folks know that a dissenting voice is not automatically a lack of support. I too hope that RAMs issues with NG are resolved easily and happily. One can consider dissent an invitation to reflect and review ones own approach to a specific problem. Is that not one of the primary purposes of this forum?

 

What I have to say, whether it meets with someone's approval here or not, is okay as long as it falls within the rules of the forum. I will not stop.  

 

Btw, scolding isn't very effective if you want to reach me. Point out a logic mistake or a new way to view something, or add facts to support your case and I'm your guy.

 

 

OP and mods, sorry for a post that's long and a bit off-topic: 

 

Portside, permit me to speak factually and logically to you.  First, the people we characterize as DGI are not privy to the term and cannot therefore be insulted by it. No harm is caused and therefore it is not a slur. Discussing people who DGI is a way of making us feel that we speak a common language and shared experience post-loss, yet you repeatedly try to sow division on what is really a minor point. Is it worth it? 

More importantly, the OP said here in response to your post that she thought this was supposed to be a safe, supportive place. That should be your clue that you were making the OP feel the opposite way.  It's not a matter of dissent, it's belittling, so no, support cannot be inferred. This is not the first time, hence my scold. It is a fact that, while the vast majority of your posts are supportive, a simple search shows that there was board-related drama b/c of your demeaning posts in May 2016, June 2016, August 2016, September 2016, June 2017, September 2017 and May 2018.  You were legitimately called out on those occasions for the tenor of your posts and you know that people have left the boards or frequented them less often in part b/c of such behaviour (I am one: fact). Yet you have shown no evidence of learning, self-reflection, or acceptance of responsibility. 

On the contrary, you positively defend your right to speak without self-censoring b/c of the rules of the forum ("I will not stop").  But did it never occur to you that other people self-censor here or don't post at all out of fear that you or others will cyber-shame them?  How is that just or inclusive?  The risk is that all voices are NOT being heard.

I support your right to be here without censure/censor from the mods- you help many people and we are all adults- the mods should not have to intervene.  I remember your story and I admire you in many ways.  But most people come here for support and validation, not your version of "tough love".  The truth is, love and its loss has been tough enough on all of us.  We suck it up IRL so should feel free to vent here without feeling policed. And grief is an equalizer - we are not each other’s subordinates, we all have valid experiences. 

Here is my suggestion for you if you really wish to support others' mental health and freedom to speak on these boards: 

Logic-based decision tree for empathetic posting:  

1) Was I asked for advice?    Yes:  post.  No:  don't post (unsolicited advice can be condescending) 

2) Will my post make the OP feel smaller, ashamed or belittled, or is there a risk of it being interpreted like this?   Am I trying to win imaginary points?  Do I need a Snickers?  Yes: don't post.  No:  post away. 

3) Is my post truly supportive of the OP?    Yes:  post.  No:  don't post. 

I would have sent this to you privately instead of risking cyber-shaming you myself, and I apologize to you and others if this appears negative or hypocritical, but I didn't want to let your kind post stand unanswered. I pray that you will accept these remarks in the respectful and constructive spirit in which they are offered. I won’t be here for a while again but I am now going to donate to widda.org, which is a support to many and helped me so much overall.  

Peace to you and all of our fellow wids.  Be well. 

[serpico]

lol

[trying2breathe]

CG   Appreciate your post, and I like the decision tree - specifically #2 will the post make OP (or anybody) feel smaller, ashamed or belittled ....  I hope that portside reads your post and gets something from it.  That being said, I consider myself to be a portside fan.  He does get cranky sometimes, his posts can be brutally honest and not necessarily supportive.  Kind of like the child that yells out that the emperor has no clothes.  I'm sad that others may feel small or belittled by what he puts out there.   What is helpful isn't always necessarily considered to be supportive though.  I don't always like what he puts out there, but he does offer another side and I appreciate him being here.  Keep on keepin' on, portside - just my humble opinion.

[Portside]

Hi all. What's up? Oh, I see.

 

CanadianGirl - thanks for the note. I mean it. You bring up some very good points but in the interest of time, I probably will not address each item of my weaknesses that you mention. I don't think my laptop has that much ink.   I am sorry you feel the need to leave for a time, however short, and that you feel I had a hand in it. Each one of us will eventually run into a person that does not agree with them – both here and in real life. To take your proverbial football home and leave the game because of that doesn’t help anyone - neither the agreer (you) or disagreer (me).  However, I get you feel like you feel but I ask you to please stay. We all will be better off.

 

I'll try to hit the big ones though which, to me is this; a) my delivery and b) my support or lack thereof.  

 

I don’t think I can buy into your decision tree for empathic support either. I guess we disagree in a major way about what is support and what it is not. I’d venture to say maybe most posts here do not ask for advice. The way that I, and I imagine many men, respond to that is to give advice anyway. Most men are fixers. It’s what we do; it’s how we are built. It’s how we see a possible end to a bad situation and make sense of the universe.

 

Your #2 point, while certainly a fine end goal, is, I believe, very difficult to meet all the time. Again, each of us has a differing place where we feel belittled or ashamed. Yes, we all should try to avoid making others feel small but how can I, or anyone, determine what might make you, or another, feel this way? Assuming of course that belittlement is not the goal. Of course there is a line but even in real life, it is difficult to discern. Through the printed word it becomes even more blurred. I think this is where my delivery comes into play. I know I have my moments. But my direct approach has its benefits too. So many times the posters all dance around the real problem and say what amounts to “oh you poor thing, have some tea.” That might make one feel better, but one may not be better. If one is, in my opinion, wrong but all others simply agree and say “there, there”, that, in my mind, is contributing to the problem the poster is experiencing. Even enabling in the worst cases. Not support or validation. To validate any poster’s thoughts or utterances each and every time, whether or not they asked for advice, can be a recipe for disaster in that person’s life. Obviously, you don’t care for my delivery. It’s okay. I’m a big boy and I know I am not everyone’s cup of tea. This forum is a microcosm of, mostly, American widows and, to a much lesser extent, widowers - each with our own brand of speaking and communication. Isn't it wonderful?

 

I went back to reread the post that caused me to start this ruckus. I did hit those little nails the OP mentioned with a pretty big hammer. Too big perhaps. My main point was lost (my fault) that I am very much against the lumping of folks together that don’t see things the way we do, in what I feel is a derogatory manner.

 

Best wishes CG! And you too RAM – I truly hope it all works out.

Happy Tuesday - Mike

[BrokenHeart2]

I still think there's nothing wrong about posting about DGI's here on our site as we all experience the frustration of them in our real lives and have nowhere else to express those feelings.  That's why we're here and why we come here to relate to others that 'get us'!! 

Hugs to all!!