Leadfeather

The trip went well. The airline travel was REALLY hard as I was always with Christine and she was always so excited to travel. So all the memories of her smiling at the airports kept going through my head as I was sitting there for hours and hours, layover suck. I had a lot of time to think as I was biking and I came to the conclusion that I want to move the relationship with A. forward, I do not want to date multiple people despite what some have suggested on the board and in person, that is just not where I am at and I do not want her to date others either.

We had a great date last night. Went to dinner and saw P!nk in concert. had a wonderful time. Twice that evening complete strangers walked up to us and said we made a cute couple. That was strange but great PR. One of them asked if we were married. I joked with her that I paid both strangers 20 bucks each to do it. Back to my place for some deep conversation and more. It was her first time at my house and it felt very natural.

It feels like things are moving in the right direction, but there is still uncertainty on her part which leads to feelings of worry on mine (I am a worrier, it is my nature, it sucks, and I am working on it). Had another conversation by phone today. She says that she feels safe with me and that she trusts me. She also is still very afraid of giving love to someone and being hurt again. Every relationship she has had has ended in her being rejected and she is gun shy. In some ways as a widower and a divorcee we are coming at this dating thing from such different directions. We discussed that a bit also. One thing I like about her is that she is completely honest about where she is feeling and coming from, even when I don't like to hear where that is, truthfulness is a quality that is so important to me.

Conversation went on and at some point she mentioned once dating a guy who never let her know where he stood. I said, alright I want to be very clear here is where I stand. I want to be exclusive with you, I do not want to date other people and I do not want you to date other people I think we have enough between us that it deserves our full attention. (yeah I know some here have suggesting not doing that but it came up and I went with it). She is not there yet, and I think it is mainly fear of being hurt, again.

Lets see what else. Last night when we were together she mentioned not being able to replace Christine. I told her that I am not trying to replace Christine, a person can not be replaced. I am not trying to replace the relationship I had with Christine. What I want is to build a new relationship with her (A.). I also tried to explain to her how I can still feel love for Christine AND feel love for a new partner. That my love for Christine is a crystallized past love. It no longer is a living growing thing because Christine is dead she can not love me back, our relationship is a beautiful piece of wooden furniture not a living growing tree. I think I got that across.

We are seeing each other on Wednesday, we were going to see each other tonight but we were both way to tired after last nights concert and not getting to sleep until 1 and 2 am then getting up for work at 6 am. Getting older sucks also. My inner voice wonders if she is seeing someone else on Tuesday, I told that little voice to shut the hell up because that actually does not matter at this point and it is not worth worrying about.

I am hoping to take her to Chicago this weekend for Museums and possibly seeing Hamilton. The Hamilton part is a surprise. She will know if her schedule allows her to go by Wednesday.

All of this rambling can probably be shortened to "it is going pretty well, not as good as want it to be, but the chart is trending upwards".

Almost but not quite feel like I get to move to the budding thread soon. Maybe. Possibly. Or not. ???

Lf.

This leads me to wonder; do WOMEN ever try and have (or expect) sex with someone they don't know?! I don't think I wouldn't go out with him again based on this, but it does give me pause.

Yes.

The first date I went on, actually the meet and greet spend an hour getting to see if this person was someone worth dating not an actual date. At the end of the hour she suggested we get a hotel room.

The second date also a meet and greet, with a different woman in a town one over from mine. She suggested we go back to her office.

I stopped dating for a while after those two dates, my wife's death was still to raw to deal with it.

Yesterday I was thinking about my expectations in dating and/or new relationships and how they are so inextricably linked to what was a happy marriage. How I define partnership and how I understand men is all based on a fully functional and healthy 18-year relationship. This is not necessarily helpful in finding happiness now.

I agree that at the early stages of dating it is not always helpful. Those early stages are winnowing out the chaff from the grain and I have not had to do that for a long time and I do not like dealing with chaff.

I am hoping that in the later stages when building a new relationship with someone who I have found worthy of my full attention that knowledge of what makes a good partnership will come in handy. Because I was in a fully functional and healthy relationship, I know how compromise, sacrifice, respect, trust etc. are the framework needed to build a healthy relationship. Something that can be forgotten in the early stages of infatuation.

I am so sorry you have to be here. February was rough on me with her birthday, our anniversary and Valentines day all in the same week. Let the pain wash over and through you. You will get to the other side.

One day I am up and feel like I can do this I can rebuild my life. The next I am down and doubting everything. It seems to me that when my wife died the pillars of love and trust I built my life on came crashing down and ever since I have fought feelings of unease and insecurity. Somedays I win and somedays I lose. Today I am just keeping my head above the water and telling that little critical voice in my head that whispers to me that life will never be good again to shut the hell up.

There is a woman I have been seeing. She lives about an hour away and has young children. We talk by phone almost every day. We text many times throughout the day. And we see each other as often as our schedules allow. Somedays I feel pretty secure in where this is going, other days I feel the opposite. I want more, but the more will only come with time, or maybe it won’t, and the doubt creeps in and sets up shop in my head. My expectations are still calibrated to a long married relationship and my responses and readings of this new relationship are messed up by that calibration. Going back to a relationship that is just starting out after having lived in one that was strong and vibrant is hard.

I miss my wife. I miss the stability of a 25 year relationship. I wish she was still here. I want to wake up next to the person I care about, I want to fall asleep listening to their breath. At the same time the dirty little secret that I have not shared is that I am enjoying my time with a new person. I have the chance to experience falling in love for a second time in my life. Maybe a third if this does not work out. A new first kiss. The little half smile on her lips. The smell of her hair.

Still reaching for that new normal.

This thread needs to be revived. So...

1. My youngest is home from college for the first part of his spring break and we just had a nice lunch together where he was animated and engaged in good conversation with me.

2. Trust is growing between the lady I have been dating and myself. It is starting to feel that given time it might grow into something more.

3. I have created a life goals map for 2018 and feel a bit more focused and less adrift.

Pretty much what Portside said. Sounds like a ploy to me.

He is a jerk. you need friends who build you up not tear you down.

"You have the right and responsibility to surround yourself with people who are good for the best part of you."

Jordan B Peterson - Good Friend vs. Bad Friend

Treaty

Leonard Cohen

I've seen you change the water into wine

I've seen you change it back to water too

I sit at your table every night

I try but I just don’t get high with you

I wish there was a treaty we could sign

I do not care who takes this bloody hill

I’m angry and I’m tired all the time

I wish there was a treaty

I wish there was a treaty

Between your love and mine

They’re dancing in the street, it’s Jubilee

We sold ourselves for love but now we’re free

I’m sorry for the ghost I made you be

Only one of us was real and that was me

I haven’t said a word since you’ve been gone

That any liar couldn’t say as well

I just can’t believe the static coming on

You were my ground, my safe and sound

You were my aerial

The fields are crying out, it’s Jubilee

We sold ourselves for love but now we’re free

I’m sorry for the ghost I made you be

Only one of us was real and that was me

I heard the snake was baffled by his sin

He shed his scales to find the snake within

But born again is born without a skin

The poison enters into everything

And I wish there was a treaty we could sign

I do not care who takes this bloody hill

I’m angry and I’m tired all the time

I wish there was a treaty

I wish there was a treaty

Between your love and mine

Yes it is. Been there. Still go there on occasion. At one point I actually liked being numb because it was better than feeling all the feelings I was feelling. Accept it, process it, and you will eventually move through it.

It is hard letting go of our dreams, isn't it?

I think this is the heart of it. It is not the things, they are just things; it is not even the memories, I have those no matter what I do with the things; it is the realization that there will never be a chance to make new memories with that person who was so integral to the life we expected to have. Purging is a reminder of that. Every time an object stirs up old memories it is a reminder that new ones can not be made with her/him.

I started purging last summer in preparation for a move next year. The easy stuff. Filled a dumpster with scrap lumber, old furniture, every single box from every single thing we ever purchased. (Not sure why we had to save all that stuff anyway.) I actually threw the lumber away twice, once when she was alive, she explained that it was useful and pulled it out of the dumpster and once after she had passed. I looked up, metaphorically, and explained to her that yes I was right this lumber is not worth saving.

Now comes the harder stuff to purge. She kept a shoebox for every year of her life since middle school. Each one labeled and filled with memories, photos, menus, ticket stubs etc. All of it is priceless and valueless at the same time. The boxes take up a closet worth of space. And in them are memories of our times together and our sons lives. I am both looking forward to sorting through them and dreading it but someday it will need to be done. If only to set aside the things worth saving for the boys and the things that have no value to anyone but her. I have no desire to read the letters from her high school sweetheart and at the same time it feels wrong to just throw them in a dumpster. Wedding dress, pressed flowers, ticket stubs to our first concert. Sometime this summer I will invite her best friend, or my sister, or someone over just to sit with me as I start the process. But it is going to be a sunny day, with the window open and a breeze blowing in brining the smell of green leaves and flowers before I even think about going through all of that.

I have made the Death Valley trip. It was good. Very hard to travel there and travel back. Sad again at home. Airports bring back memories of us happy and together. I will go into more detail about the trip at a later date. One of the other riders lost his first wife at 40, he is now 70. Talking to him was nice. The one takeaway he wanted to me to remember was that even when you it does not feel like it will ever get better, it will get better.

Attached should be two photographs I have processed so far.

we did not know

when you woke me

red lips on skin

that the breath

escaping into my ear

was almost your last

my mouth

on your shoulder

and down

joined

lost together

one last time

at dusk my shadow

alternating red and blue

strobes against our home

family and strangers

come and go

I understand

you had fled

and discarded yourself

for me to find

Thank you everyone. I will keep putting my thoughts up here as they come. And pictures if i have cell reception. Sitting At the airport alone for the first time in well... ever. She would have been here and been so excited. I live here in Beer City USA so there is a nice microbrew pub at the airport. Of course the first song they play is over the sound system when i sit down is the Flaming Lips “Do You Realize”.

Do you realize that you have the most beautiful face

Do you realize we're floating in space,

Do you realize that happiness makes you cry

Do you realize that everyone you know someday will die

Yep I do realize that. Thanks.

Today I will be flying to Vegas. Tomorrow I will be taking a shuttle to Pahrump, Nevada, and from there I will be cycling to Death Valley. The trip begins. I was really nervous the last few days; our anniversary and her birthday in the past week coupled with the reality of taking a trip without Christine allowed my mind to spin out some pretty crappy feelings. But this morning I woke up at peace. Not happy but peaceful, which I will take. If the past 15 months have taught be anything, it is tto ride out the emotions as they come.

Is there any reason you could not set up a household together with an private suite for his mom? My sister an her husband converted my mother's walkout basement into an apartment and live there with her. Two separate households divided only by an indoor stairwell.

My advice to save you a lot of emotional energy and heartache would be to cut ties with this woman and move on. It's spectacular when you meet someone who is in the same place as you are.

 

Enjoy your cycling trip, each revolution of the pedal bringing healing and a new adventure.

 

abl

Thank you. Writing out my issues and reading other responses does help me to process. I do not think I am at the point where I want to cut ties. As I mentioned we still enjoy time together, I do wish it was more, but an evening or two a week where I forget my sorrow and just enjoy someones company is still something good. As is talking on the phone and texting. In the arithmetic of relationships the good feelings being with her engender are still greater than the bad. Actually I think most of the bad feelings are still caused by my own insecurities, ones that arose after my wife's death, not necessarily from the new persons actions but rather it is from the disparity between what I had, what I have now, and what I wish I had. If however, I find that ratio of good to bad feelings ever reverses then I will reassess.

As to the trip. I am going and the exercise and sun will probably do their job.

We have been dating semi-casually for three months. Last night it became obvious after a very heartfelt honest discussion that we are in different places. Shortly before we started dating, a long term relationship she was in ended. She described her mindset last night as back to where it was after she got divorced; shut down, hurt, unable to feel. We do enjoy spending time together. We did have a enjoyable evening before and after the discussion. I know she is attracted to me physically, and she has told me I am very romantic.

I know over time she will heal, I also know that that timeframe is unknown and even after she does heal there is no promise she or I will still be dating.

So at this point I am back to online dating, I do hate "shopping" and texting, and all that is involved with it. But it can lead to good things. She is aware I am back online. We are still dating. I would so prefer to not be dating multiple women. But for my own mental health I can not wait in the wings hoping she heals quickly. Dating for me is strangely an acknowledgement of a future. It is hope. At the same time there are many qualities I see in her that are worth waiting for. . .

I am glad we had the talk because now I know where things stand and I can move forward. But I wish the talk had gone differently.

Someone on these forums mentioned that when their spouse died they also lost their sense of place and home. I so relate. I am tired and want to be home again, but my home at this time only exists in the past.

Friday I fly out to Death Valley for a week long bicycling tour. I am meeting 13 strangers there. I will be my second trip without my late wife, my first alone. It seems more like a chore than a trip at this point. Something I have to do so that I do not lose my ability to travel and enjoy life now that she is gone. Something I have to push through.

This started out as a dating vent and morphed into something else.

Matthew

Catharsis.

I have started packing for my trip next week. One of the items I packed was a small amount of Christine’s ashes. As I look at them in their small plastic baggie, is it seems so strange that these grains of grey ash and white bone once housed her consciousness. With this base material she once watched a sunset, gave birth to our sons, held my hand, ate ice cream, sunbathed, and painted murals.

These atoms are now just atoms, she no longer animates them. She like Dante’s Beatrice has “turned back to the eternal fountain” through which all things were made. Leaving behind the memory of a relationship that, like this ash, is no longer alive and growing. This would have been the week of our anniversary. The week of her birthday. This is the second time these dates have come and gone since her death, the second time the earth has revolved around the sun. The second time I have had to face them, the first time I have done so when I am not in shock.

I mourn but I am also grateful. Grateful that God gave me the opportunity to have Christine in my life for whatever period of time He chose. Grateful that He has given me the strength to keep going. Grateful that even when we suffer, life can still be good.

Life is a gift. Enjoy the sunsets, and the ice cream, and the people who pass through yours.

This is not the end.

upload pics direct link

I have had this same feeling. At first I missed her with all my being. Now 15 months out, I miss her but I miss what we built together as much or more. The trust and love that moved between us as we lived our average lives.

Helpful thread. I find myself with many of the same questions. My LW was remodeling our master bedroom and bath as well as creating a half bath. Doing the work herself. Most everything was finished except for a few of the more cosmetic details and one doorway she was in the process of widening to put in a glass door she had rescued from a clients home.  She had a talent for construction and interior design, one I never developed since she was so good at it. My plan is to have a trusted realtor come in, give me an idea of the value of my home as well as tell me which things I should finish and which I can let slide.

My hope is that the value of the home is within my sisters price range, as she has expressed interest in buying the house. I am willing to lose some of the value to sell it to her as it would be nice to keep it in the family. Nice to still have holidays celebrated there and have little children once again fill it with life and laughter. Starting to get off track.

I feel the same way about signs. But I hadsomething similar happen. At our wedding she walked down the aisle to Vivaldi's Four Seasons. So that song has always held a special place in my heart. Last year when I was depositing the life insurance (which she insisted we get) paying off the house, and removing her name from the accounts;  Vivaldi’s Four Seasons started at playing over the bank’s speakers. That song was like a bookend to our marriage. It was like she was saying goodbye and telling me I would be alright because she had taken care of us financially.

One of the gifts of grief, for me, has been a return to reading / appreciating poetry.

I have found that in myself also.

I have a friend whose 14 year old daughter is threatening suicide. She is getting counseling. Are there any books for teen girls or their parents for that matter that you would recommend?