talking about the "process of death" at church women's group

[cmf]

Maybe my widda people can help me make sense of this... I pasted below the text of an email I wrote to the leader of our women's group at church, but haven't sent yet, and maybe won't. The topic of our October meeting is about death and how it can inform our living, or something equally goofy. I'm just wondering if anyone else can relate to how I feel, or if it is me just being sensitive? There is some random church-specific stuff that probably won't make sense. The second paragraph is the main one. I would be interested to hear others' thoughts.

 

I hope you're well. I've not added my voice to the discussion about the re-purposing of women's group previously, and I hesitate to do so now as I don't really have any suggestions for change, but merely comments/concerns about what is, which I recognize as not at all helpful, and possibly annoying. I stopped coming to women's group because of one specific person, and comments she made to me over the course of several months, which weren't made out of malice, but more likely cluelessness. Every month I think I will come back to rejoin the group, and had intentions to do so in October (for at least half the meeting since I do have Peter's journey group the same night), but then I read the topic in Looking Ahead and once again immediately knew that I wouldn't feel comfortable, and I wonder if there are others who might feel the same way.

 

I will keep this brief, but I guess I do have to say it: I don't know of any conversation that can inform the way we die. The description of October's meeting reads to me as though death is a lovely experience surrounded by those we love as we quietly drift off to a sleep from which we will not wake, when the experience of death can more often than not be quite terrifying both for the person actively dying as well as the people standing by helplessly watching, screaming at EMS wondering if oxygen is getting to their loved one's brain, and then sinking to the floor in sheer terror upon the realization that the call to Brackenridge isn't to give advanced warning of a loved one's arrival, but to seek permission from the ER doctor to cease CPR.

 

It isn't a vast array of questions and possibilities. It is just really horrible, and the most terrifying thing that I have ever experienced, and I just don't understand the intellectualizing of death except as a way to put distance between ourselves and our own impending deaths. I suppose one might argue that there is no better place to have such a conversation than in a room full of supportive women in a house of worship, and I could very well be alone with my thoughts, but I guess I wanted you to know that there are reasons much beyond scheduling that have kept me from women's group, and that makes me sad at the start of nearly every month.

 

 

 

 

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VDS 11/8/59-8/22/10

[canadiangirl]

cmf, I found what you wrote to be very powerful, and moving.  If you decide to send the message, you should think about your reasons for doing so and what you would like to achieve.  It is unlikely that the meeting topic will be changed; the meeting is likely to go on without you, right?  I can see that discussing death is a fit topic for a place of worship, and maybe the conversation is meant to be about how faith or belief in the afterlife can make us feel less scared at the end...but I can also see that, depending on how it were framed, one might feel uncomfortable, as you do.  You know from our vast collective experience, don't you, that your message about how terrifying the end of life really can be (and I was terrified with my DH too) might not be particularly welcome?  Maybe you can share the message about how you would have liked to participate and it's not just scheduling, but given your experience you do not feel comfortable coming to the next meeting due to the topic, which in itself might be reframed to be more inclusive of those who have faced sudden loss or loss at a young age.  You say you don't have solutions or ideas but I bet you do have positive ones - like for the next meeting why can't they talk about resilience or getting through great loss, or how faith is affected by tragedy or building the resources at the church to better support the bereaved and you have lots of ideas if anyone wants to listen... 

 

My two cents.  I hope this helps.  ((cmf))

 

 

[Portside]

 

 

I will keep this brief, but I guess I do have to say it: I don't know of any conversation that can inform the way we die. The description of October's meeting reads to me as though death is a lovely experience surrounded by those we love as we quietly drift off to a sleep from which we will not wake, when the experience of death can more often than not be quite terrifying both for the person actively dying as well as the people standing by helplessly watching, screaming at EMS wondering if oxygen is getting to their loved one's brain, and then sinking to the floor in sheer terror upon the realization that the call to Brackenridge isn't to give advanced warning of a loved one's arrival, but to seek permission from the ER doctor to cease CPR..

 

I can only comment on a very small portion of your note. I bolded it. Specifically, the portion concerning how the dying feel. My experience was different than yours. I'm no priest, but it has been my privilege to be the last man many dying folks had contact with as I was a corpsman assigned to a Marine combat unit years ago. By and large, the grievously wounded knew they were dying and, generally, had made their peace with it - even if it was sudden and time was short. To a man, they merely wanted someone there to be with them, holding their hand or stroking their hair. Someone to tell them it would be all be alright even though all knew it wouldn't be alright. While the events leading up to their wounds were violent, their faces and final words were peaceful. A few guys whom I had given up for dead lived - no thanks to me. They lived through their injuries. While most I never saw again after they were medevaced, a few I did visit in the field hospital during their convalescence. I asked them about the experience of their near death. (Combat veterans are a ghoulish lot). Generally, it was a positive, dream like state with no pain or horror. Even the sounds of the battlefield had either been forgotten or never registered. 

 

I fully agree that folks around the dying (EMT's, nurses, bystanders, family, etc.) suffer terribly when present. Impending death can shake the most sturdy of any of us. It is harder on the ones left standing than those whose life is slipping away.

 

I suppose that is just one of those unexplained things.

 

I don't know if my comments add to your concerns about your group at all - I hope not.

 

For me now, death is an easy concept and a very firm reality that doesn't trouble me - it's never far away from any of us. I suppose my age and life experience has put me in that place.

 

A dead wife, a dead son and dozens of dead buddies can quish the horror right out of you. Either that or you go mad.

 

I've made it simple in my little pea brain: you live, you die, you go to heaven (if you are a good guy), or go to hell (if you are a bad guy). Perhaps the discussions of the minutiae of death in your group or the endless talks of (ultimately) meaningless items have made the group hard to take.

 

I hope I helped a bit (or did I just go off the rails completely and blather mindlessly?).

 

Best wishes - Mike

[cmf]

Thank you both! This is why I love our little part of the web here... I can ask anything and get a thoughtful answer.

 

 

 

 

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VDS 11/8/59-8/22/10