Love and Logic strategies

[RobFTC]

It seems like time is a big issue in your house, you like things on a pretty strict schedule and your daughter is a little looser with time.  What if you acknowledge your different approaches to timliness and compromise that you will allow some wiggle room of 5.45-6:15 to be acceptable for dinner on the table?

 

Oh heck yeah, I figure anyone can be 10 minutes late, and really do not mind.  But a half-hour is too common, and I've had attitude that suggests this isn't always just an accident.  I have also said that I would happily eat at 5:30 if the error went in that direction, of course that has *never* happened :-)

 

Take care,

Rob T

[RobFTC]

I've tried the "Natural Consequences" too, but sometimes it ends up biting me in the butt.  Like my son (15) running late in the mornings when he needs to catch the bus.  I've been told to just let him miss the bus.  But, without the nagging...hurry up, you have 5 minutes, you have 3 minutes...hurry up!, he'd drag his feet and never make it.  My problem is, if he misses the bus, I end up driving him to school, so this "Natural Consequence" takes it's toll on me, not him.  He still makes it to school.  No way will I let him just stay home because he missed the bus.  I guess I need to figure out which things need to be the "Natural Consequences" lesson? 

 

Hi SR, I would suggest "energy drain" or something related.  "Gosh, son, I used up all my driving energy taking you to school when you missed the bus.  I don't think I have any to spare to take you to your friend's house to play."  Or maybe he has to think up chores he can do to restore your energy.  It DOES have an impact on you, so you have to get him to address that.  My girls missed the bus once; I do stand in the living room to say goodbye and may happen to note that it's 6:45 if I don't see them by then.  I think they got to get dinner on the table an extra day each when I had to drive them.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[RobFTC]

This isn't what you asked so forgive me if I'm out of line but I had some thoughts on some of the struggles you've mentioned. A while back, I think you posted that one of your girls has ADHD; is that R?

 

No, that's Sarah.  Rebecca is just affected by the usual hormones :-)  I do account for Sarah's organizational skills and executive functioning when she's late or having issues, for sure.

 

Take care,

Rob T

 

[RobFTC]

Rob  Your DD is bucking your system, for whatever reason.  I think there's a deeper issue going on, it seems that whatever your rules she is resisting them.  Stricter discipline with her is having the opposite effect than what you would like. 

 

This sounds very true.  I have absolutely been adding fuel to her oppositional energy by reacting with anger and adding consequences.  The other night I was on her for starting a shower late again, and she said, "Can you please wait until I'm late getting out of the shower to get on me about this?"  And she took a short shower to get out at the time we'd talked about, which I thought her incapable of doing.  So last night when she seemed to be running late, I said, "You're welcome to use this shower if you're out by 9pm."  And she made it.  So yes, I think backing off some of my reactions is very helpful right now.  If there's another late shower, I think I will make a sign about her being welcome to use this bathroom again on such-and-such a date.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[RobFTC]

Today, she's cooking, and she said it would take a half-hour.  She was in the bathroom until 6, so she's for sure going to be late.  She hasn't communicated.

 

I should follow up.  Dinner was ready just before I hit "Post" on this message.  When I sat down, Rebecca apologized and said she had had legitimate needs in the bathroom, so I accepted that with grace and we had a good meal together.  Sometimes I misdiagnose things, too.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[SimiRed]

Rob, never heard the terminology "energy drain"...does it work?  He might just give me the "yeah, right" look.  Since we're new to this area, he hasn't established the kind of friendship when they go over to play, or come here yet. 

 

Abitlost, Liking the idea of taking the phone til he hits the door to walk down to the bus, I may do that.  The bus was coming as soon as he walked out this morning, so he cuts it close every single time!  If the bus driver is ever one or two minutes early, he's running.  You'd think a part of them would not like the in a hurry all the time.

 

Sounds like Rebecca is trying with dinner, at least sometimes.  Glad she apologized, it shows she knew she was late. 

[RobFTC]

Rob, never heard the terminology "energy drain"...does it work?  He might just give me the "yeah, right" look.  Since we're new to this area, he hasn't established the kind of friendship when they go over to play, or come here yet. 

 

It can.  If you have something that he relies on, making it unavailable with more of a "this is so sad" tone rather than an angry tone can encourage thoughts on his actions and not yours.  Some stuff I have taught the girls to own with this kind of thing.  They tend to ask, "would you be willing to drive me there" instead of saying I have to do it.

 

Abitlost, Liking the idea of taking the phone til he hits the door to walk down to the bus, I may do that.  The bus was coming as soon as he walked out this morning, so he cuts it close every single time!  If the bus driver is ever one or two minutes early, he's running.  You'd think a part of them would not like the in a hurry all the time.

 

Another idea from L&L is "no sense both of us worrying about this", i.e. if you're giving reminders, he doesn't have to pay attention to time since you're the ultimate smart clock/calendar.  If you were to stop serving that role, he's got to pick it up.  Of course, you need to work out what happens when he misses the bus - it should be just a little uncomfortable :-)

 

Sounds like Rebecca is trying with dinner, at least sometimes.  Glad she apologized, it shows she knew she was late.

 

She did - it was nice.  And I am glad that went down without issues.  She got Spotify Premium back on her birthday yesterday because I've felt less pushback :-)

 

Take care,

Rob T

[SimiRed]

I really liked what you said about me being his "clock", so, I took your advice this morning.  I will admit, I was biting my nails, biting my tongue and holding my breath, but I did not tell him what time it was.  I did tell him while he was eating breakfast that he has two clocks downstairs and it was time that he become accountable.  Of course he told me that he pays attention to the time and I just annoy him by reminding him of it.

 

Well, happy dance, he actually made it to the bus.  And I was tortuously ready to drive him to school...

 

Thanks Rob!  Looking forward to more positive ways to get though these teen years!

[Wheelerswife]

SimiRed...next time you have to drive him to school, make sure your hair is a mess, you haven't showered, and you are wearing pajamas and a bathrobe. Get out of the car and kiss him goodbye!

 

I can picture J right now...the eyeroll and the look that would kill!

 

(And in all seriousness, I'm not advocating embarrassing anyone's kids or yourselves.  I've met some of these kids and I know what great kids they are.  I just hope that someone cracked a smile at the suggestion!)

 

Maureen

 

 

[RobFTC]

I'm not advocating embarrassing anyone's kids or yourselves.

 

I advocate embarrassing your kids!  It's one of the best things about being a parent! :-)

 

Take care,

Rob T

[SimiRed]

Maureen... Next time you visit and he misses the bus, we'll both go in our pajamas and engulf him in girl hugs...ewwwwww!!!

 

Bwaaahaaaaa, I bet he will never be late again!

 

Seriously, I think I should just plop some curlers in my hair, that's be a much better look!

[Abitlost]

Negotiators...how do you deal with that? Mine are very logical and argue valid points which I know are good traits but it can be exhausting especially when it's two-on-one; sometimes the answer has to be a non-negotiable "because I said so" in order to stay consistent with "say what you mean and mean what you say". Tips?

 

abl

[trying2breathe]

abl    Ah yes, the expert negotiators.  Both my kids are masters at this, so exasperating!  I find that they detail out the smallest points and want answers to everything.  No big advice to offer for this, although I will say that if I take the time to sit down and really listen, rather than communicate on the fly, things go way better.  My kids feel like they are heard, and I can more easily get my point across. 

 

My kids have the uncanny ability to try and negotiate at a bad time, probably thinking that they'll have the advantage  8)

if possible I'll postpone the conversation for later. 

[SimiRed]

I agree with trying2breathe, "postpone the conversation".  I found that my son will negotiate for hours, and eventually we give up and give in.  I will just tell him that it's "non-negotiable" at this time.  If your attitude changes, or circumstances change, we can discuss at a later time.  Or, I'll tell him that the conversation is over, since we are not achieving anything and just keep going in circles.  Give him a time-frame, I need a break from this conversation at the moment, we can talk about it again after dinner.

[Abitlost]

abl    Ah yes, the expert negotiators.  Both my kids are masters at this, so exasperating!  I find that they detail out the smallest points and want answers to everything.  No big advice to offer for this, although I will say that if I take the time to sit down and really listen, rather than communicate on the fly, things go way better.  My kids feel like they are heard, and I can more easily get my point across. 

 

My kids have the uncanny ability to try and negotiate at a bad time, probably thinking that they'll have the advantage  8)

if possible I'll postpone the conversation for later.

 

I agree that when I can take the time to have that sit-down talk things go smoother, but at least for me, life as an only-living parent results in the majority of communications on the fly. My youngest has taken to e-mailing me things that require contemplation which is going rather well.

[Abitlost]

I agree with trying2breathe, "postpone the conversation".  I found that my son will negotiate for hours, and eventually we give up and give in.  I will just tell him that it's "non-negotiable" at this time.  If your attitude changes, or circumstances change, we can discuss at a later time.  Or, I'll tell him that the conversation is over, since we are not achieving anything and just keep going in circles.  Give him a time-frame, I need a break from this conversation at the moment, we can talk about it again after dinner.

 

I also get the negotiation for hours, but I never give in lest I encourage more extended sessions. Recently both of them were negotiating the same point and not making any headway so I used my best Mufasa voice to say "I have spoken." That resulted in silence, a rare occurrence. I'm going to have to stock that one for the future!

[RobFTC]

I used my best Mufasa voice to say "I have spoken."

 

Slick - I may have to try that! :-)

 

So I read a decent bit of "Parenting Teens With Love And Logic" on the plane today (I'm in Austin for a quick work meeting).  I am remembering just why my parenting norms of late are not working, and after the tears, it's a good thing.  Never too late to change.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[Abitlost]

Rob, for those of us who have not yet cracked our books, please share the tidbits that stand out to you!

 

abl

[RobFTC]

I think the best couple of ideas so far:

 

- your best value to your child is to be a consultant - asking questions and offering advice, but letting kids make lots of decisions (in contrast to helicopter parents who rescue kids from all bad things and drill sergeants who give lots of orders)

 

- asking the child what they think and how they will decide is a great thing for teens, especially

 

The book so far has focused on the basics and bent them only slightly towards teens, but it's been a good refresher.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[RobFTC]

Hi folks,

 

In the spirit of shouting about good things when they happen, a cool thing happened yesterday.  We were talking about their future mates, and I said, "hey, I will try to find good things to like in whoever you bring home, like my parents did and like my sister does all the time."  Rebecca said, "I know, I think I got my 'liking most people' from you."  What?  My tough-ass kid saying something good about me?  You could have knocked me over with a feather! :-)  Maybe this parenting deal is going to work out OK after all!!!

 

I am 25% through the "Parenting Teens with L&L" now.  I am internalizing some things, but I am going to have to go through the book again while taking notes on areas of particular focus.  I think I have consequences plotted out for Rebecca's late dinners and late showers, but I will offer her a chance at input before just imposing stuff.  I am really liking the consultant model; what's botched it for me recently was that if they didn't make what I thought was the right decision, I would prod them about it.  Gotta stop THAT right now.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[SimiRed]

It is nice when our kids say something nice about us, glad your daughter gave you that bit of information and made you feel good about the values you are teaching her.

 

Like you, if my son didn't make a good decision, I would jump on him for it.  I like in the book where it mentions to give them choices when we want something done.  An example from the book is, "Would you rather wash the car this morning or this afternoon?"  It puts them in a situation where he/she can't say no, but rather have a choice to make.  Making the choice makes them more responsible to get the task done.  Try not to make the choice a threat, don't use the "do this or else I'll do that" technique. 

 

Good reading and does make you think differently.

[trying2breathe]

I'm looking for ideas on how to instill some financial responsibility into my 17 y/o DD's life. 

 

DD is a good student, plays volleyball and has plenty of what I consider downtime to get a part-time job.  She applied for a position to a local supermarket, but never followed up because she "doesn't feel like working".  She recently started to drive, and got a car (paid by me); I let her know that gas and minor car maintenance is on her. 

 

I'm trying to teach her how to balance a checkbook, and how a budget works.  With her Christmas money, she quickly spent most everything and now has $44 left.  I'm thinking that when she can't fill her car with gas, having her car sit idle in the garage until she can fill it again.       

 

I realize that families manage things differently - what do you pay for, and what is expected of your teen?  Does anybody have suggestions on how to teach a teenager about money?

 

Thanks -

 

 

[Trying]

I bought my son a used car when he got his license because frankly it was a huge help to me that he drive himself.  I pay for the insurance and maintenance.  He was responsible for gas until we moved, it now takes him 40 mins each way to and from school so I got him a gas card.  I bought myself my first car and was responsible for everything when I was 17 but my parents did take over paying my insurance when I was in college so I feel a little conflicted about handing him everything.  Honestly, it's mostly selfish because I have school, work and an 11 year old so I really need him to be able to get himself to and fro. 

 

As far as teaching them about money, I seem to have failed miserably with 19 year old but my 17 year old is doing slightly better.  Money tends to burn a hole in his pocket taking the girl friend out. All 3 of my kids have saving accounts that they have no access to, money from first communion, confirmation, gifts etc.  they have to have a good reason to get me to tap into that for them, so far only my 19 year old has and that's when he was away at college and not working.

[RobFTC]

Does anybody have suggestions on how to teach a teenager about money?

 

Here's what I am currently doing.  This is a recent change, so data about effectiveness is scant.

 

For many years, we used to pay them their age in dollars per week, e.g. through November last year my 14-year-olds got $14/week for allowance.  That was a failure for a long time, as I would never have the cash and change to actually pay them weekly.  I was just the Bank of Dad, and they would ask me to pay for stuff and I would try to track it in a note in my phone so I could deduct it.  I'd pay them a check sort-of-regularly, and they would put it in their savings accounts.  I would also just pay for their clothes and school supplies.

 

Fast forward to now: they have their old savings accounts, but now have debit cards tied to their new checking accounts.  I worked with them to figure out their needs, and wrote out a budget with the categories entertainment, clothing, school supplies and gifts and came up with an amount that I hoped would cover it.  I have their accounts linked to mine, so I will transfer money in every quarter, in March/June/Sept/Dec.  They can get cash or use their debit cards (no checks yet).  I want them to pay for everything that comes up that doesn't involve all of us.  Sarah needs a fee for art supplies and a protractor, so we're going to the ATM and then Target after dinner.  Getting to "I'm paying you X and the rest is your problem" is the great simplifying thing I have wanted to do for awhile.  I want it to be enough to have a little fun, but for it to be clear that bigger-ticket stuff like a car will require them to earn more income.

 

For a car, we're not there yet and I am thinking about it.  I will probably pick up insurance at their initial baseline and expect them to pay extra if they raise our rates will accidents.  I will probably subsidize their first car - probably shared - and expect them to pay for gas and such (splitting that could be tricky).  I will absolutely let the car sit idle if they run out of gas money, unless they come up with a "Shark Tank" quality pitch as to why I should help more.

 

One more thing: they have some chores that are just theirs, and they do not get paid for them, it's just their family obligation.  Taking out trash, keeping their areas clean and hitting their bathroom every so often, and unloading and reloading the dishwasher are on their list.  I would consider paying them for extra work that I am doing or that isn't done enough now.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[trying2breathe]

Thank you for the responses.  This makes me realize how much work I need to put into this!  When I talk to my daughter about finances, I get a blank stare and no response.  We'll see what happens if her car sits without gas in the garage for awhile! 

 

Rob  I tried the allowance thing too and didn't keep up, your method sounds very familiar.  It didn't seem to work to tie in certain chores with allowance, I do agree that as a member of the household there should be responsibilities that DD can manage.  DD is lazy - after 1-1/2 years living in the same house, she still doesn't remember trash days.    :-\ :  Or to unload the dishwasher, or run a load of laundry.  I'm being played, I realize, not sure how to break this cycle though. 

 

Other than a college fund, DD has no savings.  She has a credit card and a gas card both linked to mine, and a debit card, but doesn?t really know the difference between them.  Not a good idea to have her in possession of credit cards, she has very little concept of credit.  I put full blame on myself that my kids are not more financially responsible.  It wasn?t something that we focused on after DH died.    I think that it will take some hard lessons for DD to start to get it.  This should be interesting ?