NO, this is NOT the same as divorce

[MauiMermaid]

I've been dealing with the DGI comments for the last 3 years and I'm at my boiling point. NO, this is not the same as your divorce, breakup with your boyfriend, loss of your 90 year-old grandmother, etc etc. I just have no patience for people trying to equate this to any other experience and, at the same time, advise you on what you should/shouldn't be doing. Sorry, just needed to vent. I know their intention is good but I'm just so fed up with it.

 

Thank you to the forum members here, especially WifeLess, for posting and supporting all of us in this journey. Some great reads below:

 

fern,

 

 

But really, where would anyone learn what we need? ... Seems like a mass education campaign is in order.

 

Inspired by your question, I just reposted the How You Can Help Me letter in the Newly Widowed section, since that's where I think it might be needed most:

 

http://widda.org/index.php/topic,1587.0.html

 

This letter, along with several other documents that were previously posted on the old YWBB and have already been reposted here, tries to explain to family and friends what we are feeling and what we may need. Those other writings include:

 

Letter to a Friend

http://widda.org/index.php/topic,7.0.html

 

Unique and Devastating Loss

http://widda.org/index.php/topic,8.0.html

 

Bill of Rights for Grief

http://widda.org/index.php/topic,13.0.html

 

And an edited version of Saying Olin to Say Goodbye

http://widda.org/index.php/topic,1000.0.html

 

Perhaps these can be of help in the "mass education campaign" that you mention.

 

--- WifeLess

[Guest TalksToAngels]

Agree. I can't help but have noticed your quote from Mark Twain. I believe I read that He lost everything, his family, and small children to a deadly disease (typhoid fever as I recall). He found his greatest joys with his children and family and his story (if you research it), was of devastation and loss. Yet he tried to outwardly remain strong.

Hats off to his memory I wish I could do the same.

[Torn]

Ya know, this us very true...

    Being people don't know what loosing a spouce is like, but compairing their midlife crisis divorce to true loss of life..well that's ignorant.

  Deep breaths my friend

[hikermom]

Hi MM!! I don't come on all that often but was so happy to see you here when I popped back in!

 

I am so grateful I don't hear this much anymore. By far the worst thing anyone said to me was from a board member who was also an attorney: "I have been representing a woman in a divorce recently. Her husband left her for another woman. At least your husband didn't leave you for someone else...that is really bad." This was within a month of my husband's death. I could have punched him but was so shocked, I just stared.

 

Amazing what some people think is comforting. But that is just plain stupid.

[Freelancing]

I don't get that from people anymore, thank goodness. They probably figure I now know what I'm doing!

At one point, I asked an acquaintance if she had a specific person in mind when she advised to start dating. Her response was in regards to a friend of her mother's who remarried a couple of years after being widowed. Prince Charming as she made him out to sound cured her of grief. Aha. I just let her know we are two separate individuals who obviously think differently. A huff and a puff and off she went muttering "I was just trying to help!"

Not talking would've been much more helpful! 

[soloact]

I wonder if a widow ever approached a divorced person and said " I know exactly how you feel. My husband is dead".

 

I doubt it.

 

I will sign on to the death is same as divorce theory the first time a deceased spouse rises from the dead and remarries the widow(er). Until then they are just blowing smoke.  :

[hachi]

At the risk of sounding polly-anna-ish (I know it's not a word) this is a story about my DH and I from a long time ago.

 

Once in a while, in the company of our friends or family, DH would say "Beer, Wench!" and I would trot off to the kitchen, cooler, where ever there happened to be the beverage of his choice and bring to him. It was a silly kind of joke, and would often bring out some indignation in my sisters or women friends. Even some of the guys would raise their eyebrows.

 

Finally one time, my sister couldn't stand it and said, "How can you let them talk to you that way?" I batted my eyes and said "oh that's easy. I know he says "Beer, Wench!" but what I hear is "Darling, love of my life, would you be so kind as to find me a beer? You know how lazy I am and how much I appreciate the way you wait on me, oh and by the way, I just love you like crazy!"  She just rolled her eyes, made vomiting noises and walked away in a huff. My DH and I just laughed our heads off.

 

Since then, I really do filter things this way. When someone says they know how I feel, I translate it this way....

 

"I don't know exactly how you feel, but I do know something about loss, and I am sorry for yours." Especially easy for me to do if I think the person is genuine, and is trying. I will admit that it took some practice.

[Guest TalksToAngels]

At least he used wench and not the other tch word.

 

[Guaruj]

I wonder if a widow ever approached a divorced person and said " I know exactly how you feel. My husband is dead".

 

I doubt it.

 

I doubt it, too, and I would also object to someone insinuating that my widowhood is similar to their divorce. I believe the root cause of equating widowhood with divorce is that, at least among people under 70, divorce is presently more common than widowhood.

 

In earlier times, when life expectancy was shorter and divorce was scandalous, you may have seen more widows than divorcees - especially during and immediately after wartime. Is it possible that a widow might have commiserated with a divorcee by equating their circumstances? Maybe, though we should also remember that the stigma that was then attached to divorce might have prevented such an encounter.

 

Stigmatizing or not, I am certain that divorce is awful in ways I would never care to experience. I think that, in modern times, people may have an easier time comprehending the consequences of divorce than they do widowhood.

[MauiMermaid]

 

Since then, I really do filter things this way. When someone says they know how I feel, I translate it this way....

 

"I don't know exactly how you feel, but I do know something about loss, and I am sorry for yours." Especially easy for me to do if I think the person is genuine, and is trying. I will admit that it took some practice.

 

Hi Hachi. Cute story. Thanks for sharing it, made me smile.

 

I would love to be as optimistic but when people have been saying this to me lately it's usually them analyzing why it's taking me so long to "move on". They don't understand why I still cry every day, why I still think of him every minute, why I still feel utterly broken and confused. There are only a few I confide these feelings to anymore. It just really hurts when they seem shocked that the pain is still so central in my life... and then there goes the comparisons to how divorcees they know have "coped" with their "loss" as a means of "advice" on how I can too "move on". It's really hurtful and insulting. *Sigh*, breathing deep and just filtering it as ignorance to a devastation they have no hope of understanding. 

[MauiMermaid]

Hi MM!! I don't come on all that often but was so happy to see you here when I popped back in!

 

 

Likewise!! (((Hugs to you!)))

[WifeLess]

MauiMermaid,

 

Inappropriate comparisons between divorce and death have frustrated many of us who have been widowed. Over the years I have read a good number of posts about this issue both on the old YWBB and now here. So, a while back I tried putting together a list of some of the numerous differences I saw between being divorced and being widowed, although I never posted it since I have never gone through a divorce and consequently don't feel sufficiently qualified to speak on this issue. But, for what it's worth, here's what I came up with:

 

---

 

Divorce vs. Death: 12 Differences (by WifeLess)

 

1. In a divorce at least one spouse is no longer in love with the other. And perhaps both no longer are. A widow(er) and their deceased spouse were both in love with each other to the end.

 

2. In a divorce spouses become emotionally more distant as the marriage ends. A widow(er) and their deceased spouse were likely drawn much closer together emotionally towards the end if death was expected.

 

3. In a divorce at least one spouse chose to end the marriage. And perhaps both did. Neither the widow(er) nor their deceased spouse chose to end their marriage.

 

4. In a divorce at least one spouse knows that the other is not their "soul mate". And perhaps both do. A widow(er) continues to believe their deceased spouse is their "soul mate" long after their death.

 

5. In a divorce at least one spouse does not want to be reunited with the other. And perhaps both feel that way. A widow(er) wants above all else to be reunited with their deceased spouse and firmly believes their spouse would feel that way too.

 

6. A divorced person may find comfort in the thought of possibly reuniting with their former spouse someday. A widow(er) is greatly distressed by knowing with certainty there is no possibility of ever reuniting with their deceased spouse, at least not during their lifetime.

 

7. A divorced person may grieve the loss of their relationship. A widow(er) grieves, not only the loss of their relationship, but also the tragic loss of life. The life of the one person in the world who was most important to them.

 

8. A divorced person likely knows the exact whereabouts of their former spouse, as well as their present life situation. A widow(er) frequently wonders about the fate and present circumstances of their deceased spouse, or at least of their soul or spirit.

 

9. A divorced person likely still communicates with their former spouse, although they may not want to. A widow(er) cannot ever communicate with their deceased spouse, even though they desperately want to.

 

10. A divorced person likely shares parental responsibilities and expenses with their former spouse. A widow(er) bears the entire burden of caring for and raising their children.

 

11. A divorced person may relieve anger and frustration about their plight by placing the blame on their former spouse and venting to them. A widow(er) rarely blames their deceased spouse for dying and cannot vent any anger or frustration to them. But they do often blame themself for not saving their spouse.

 

12. A divorced person often wishes their former spouse dead. A widow(er)'s greatest wish above all else is for their deceased spouse to be alive and well.

[Freelancing]

So true, Wifeless.

However, the idea that divorce and death are the same comes from somewhere. People don't just have these ideas pop up out of nowhere. Its their life experiences or information they've gathered to form their opinions.

This is going to get touchy, but the fact is the majority of people are not aware remarried people still grieve; they believe they're over it. By some appearances, the remarried tend to give off that impression and its taken at face value - a lasting impression burned into their memory. Dating or remarrying after a short period of time makes a very strong impression that grief is temporary, easily fixed through recoupling and does not merit time out. There's also the possibility they have met someone widowed who honestly did not like their spouse. We do not know who or what they are referencing. And it could be the closest painful life experience they can relate with.

I had a very difficult time getting through this one. I wanted people to know DH's death was not going to make me go off the deep end by running out silly nilly doing things I would never have considered beforehand. I also wanted to make certain my kids and others knew of his importance to me, that our marriage was of value enough to take the time to grieve and rebuild my life with purpose. I wanted "us" to still matter. Incredibly, family and friends really didn't know me at all. They thought I'd be out dating in a nano second, they thought I was terribly dependent there was no way I could get through life without someone at my side.

In my desire to remain single, the impact on those who knew us has made quite a difference. Now they know who and what I'm made of. I'm treated with far more respect than I ever have by these people. Quite the surprise. Many have admit they wouldn't be able to tolerate being alone. I'm not alone, I'm single.

As in all things we have to be careful of what we project to others. I just happened to gain respect from wanting to stay single; it was not intentional, but it did make me aware of what others value most as well as its importance to me.

I had a good marriage, its over, now I want to do the things I had planned to do in my retirement years.  8)

We get so hung up on things that just cause more anger, but in grief, sensitivity to almost all things takes precedence we seemingly have no control over, as it is it the motions must be gone through to learn how to deal with them. Its yet anotherthing to contend with, however, I found it was best for me to desensitize myself to eliminate triggers from the shit list to move on with healing.

[soloact]

I wonder if a widow ever approached a divorced person and said " I know exactly how you feel. My husband is dead".

 

I doubt it.

 

I doubt it, too, and I would also object to someone insinuating that my widowhood is similar to their divorce. I believe the root cause of equating widowhood with divorce is that, at least among people under 70, divorce is presently more common than widowhood.

 

 

The people who initiated this foolish comparison to me gave two primary reasons.

 

1. No property division so I was very luck to walk away with all the marbles.

 

2. I knew where my husband was. I didn't have to worry about him being with another woman.

 

 

Item 1 was usually men. Item 2 women.

 

I wrote them all off as crazies

 

 

[soloact]

This is another way death is totally different from divorce. I wish it was the same but it not in so many ways.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabrielle-selz/emergency-contact_1_b_8755700.html?utm_hp_ref=divorce&ir=Divorce

 

 

[Freelancing]

 

 

The people who initiated this foolish comparison to me gave two primary reasons.

 

1. No property division so I was very luck to walk away with all the marbles.

 

2. I knew where my husband was. I didn't have to worry about him being with another woman.

 

 

Item 1 was usually men. Item 2 women.

 

I wrote them all off as crazies

 

OMG! ;D

Its been such a long time I'd forgotten how ridiculous and materialistic people can be when it comes to widowhood.

No maliciousness intended, but all I can do is laugh about it now. I think I may still have my bat somewhere if anyone needs it.

[pms1954]

Five days after my husband passed away suddenly, a woman I work with sat down next to me and said "you know Pete, I understand what you're feeling because I went through such a nasty divorce, but the way you handle this is completely up to you. You can wallow in it or move forward".

[Freelancing]

Ha, ha, ha --- thanks for the advice. Bitch!

 

I get it. On the day of DH's funeral, my ex-MIL announced to family and friends they need not worry about me because I'd find someone else within a year. Got to hand it to her, she consistently maintains genuine psychopathic tendencies regardless of present company or at her own son's funeral whom she liked very little.

 

People, people, people, what can you do but flip them off then forgive yourself for an oops of the fingers. 

[MrsMisterman]

About 6 months into my widowhood, I had this co -worker unload on me. I didn't really know her. She was hired to run another division while I was out on family medical leave then bereavement leave.

 

So anyhoo, her spouse of 25 years, lost his "shit". According to her, he literally came home from work, said I want a divorce, never spoke to her thereafter, and moved into the basement.

 

In her mind, I had it easier! Weird, hurtful shit came out of her mouth, like in a daze. I was so wounded, but blindsided, I was speechless. She told me how my tears were "pure", and how much easier I had it financially, socially.

 

I just walked away. Stunned. But committed to confronting her in the future.

 

Widows here, especially Bunny, helped me deal. See her side. I had the fairy tale. Binding love. Till death do you part.....and there beyond. Nobody left nobody here. There was a lot of fight.

 

It made me understand this woman's fantasy version of my deep pain.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest TooSoon]

Admittedly, I have not gone back and read this whole thread and what I am going to say is going to be unpopular and I know that but will offer it for point of perspective nonetheless. 

 

I was speaking with my aunt today.  Her son, my cousin, committed suicide last February, devastating us all.  Her stories of grief mirrored ours in an eerily familiar way.  Only the grieving can know grief, know this sort of loss.  So, yes, it is not like a divorce. 

 

I've found some comfort, though, in the finality of it all.  There are no negotiations I have to make with an ex or feelings of guilt/insecurity/failure that a divorced person might feel and have to live over and over again due to children or legalities and having to maintain a relationship.  I wasn't slighted or betrayed; we fulfilled our promise to one another.  I am grateful for that; I am sad for them. 

 

From the get go, people with problems have come to me since Scott died.  People have been inappropriately open with me about their sexless marriages or their eating disorders or secrets they can't tell anyone else.  I think it is because they are hurting with nowhere to go and I seem like a safe place because they assume that in my grief I will empathize and I do.  I do not always welcome it, but I get it.  I do not envy them, and I do not envy divorced people either.  Quite frankly, I think negotiating that long term would be far worse. 

[Quixote]

TooSoon, you have a point. My wife and I loved each other desparately until she died. Heck, I still do. Losing that love-- the one thing that was central to both of our lives-- I can't bear to think of that. It IS hard for my friends who deal with it. Is their pain greater than mine?  Probably not, and it certainly is a different sort of anguish. But it's not a contest either.

[widowat33]

I have had this conversation with others as well. I used to take comfort in knowing that he didn't leave me because he didn't love me anymore. I couldn't imagine hating someone I love so much, because sadly that sometimes is what happens when people get divorced.

Is our pain worse than theirs? Why does it matter? It's still painful for people to make comparisons, there is no comparison, as I'm sure someone going through a divorce would feel the same.

Emotional pain cannot be measured, nor should it be compared.

 

Edited all my grammatical errors..I think?

[lcoxwell]

Emotional pain cannot be measured, nor should it be compared.

 

I love this quote, and find there is a great truth in the words. I may steal this from you, for future reference.

[widowat33]

Steal away