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Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...


arneal
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We are doing well. We went to a theatre type show a few weeks ago and a close friend of his who was in the show commented that we’ve been together for quite some time. NG said something like we’re very committed. I’m curious where we can go next but I’m also comfortable where we are. I liken our relationship as 2 parallel lines that intersect and then separates multiple times. Our lines are not intertwined. 

 

I took him to meet my FIL and his wife. I believe it went well. He was quite nervous. The girls were not getting along so my 16 yo asked to drive us home so that meant NG had to sit in the back. He was doing a sing along with my older daughter all the way home. Lol. 

 

We went to our grief group last week and we met a recoupled widow and widower. She’s 2 1/2 years out and he’s less than a year out. They met on FB and she moved to Chicago from Georgia. They are looking for a good fit group for their family. They talked  much about the hardships of combining households. My daughter said her teenaged son is angry about the move from their breakout session. The younger some seems okay with it. It was interesting to observe since I haven’t met anyone recoupled in person. 

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NG went off on his Mom. The co-dependent needy Mom that he has to pick up every evening, run her all over town for errands..take her with him to Friday night football games.

 

It's so dysfunctional I can't even explain all of it. It's a very unhealthy family- Typical extended Appalachian family..all talk about each other, argue, take sides, fight over land..It's just insane.

 

Anyway, I figure it will be back to the normal unhealthy no boundaries relationship within a few days..but this was a first since we have been dating. They aren't speaking. He really did blow up, but it's been brewing for months now. 

 

(It involved my sons..family land..just a mess. I marked her off a long time ago,- Seriously you wouldn't believe it unless you were there. This type of upbringing is even foreign to me and I have grown up in WV)-

 

Good God.  One of the many reasons I don't see us ever marrying until Momma is gone and my kids are grown.

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Hey there, Sugarbell -- that's pretty huge for NG, it seems. Since I can remember your sharing about his connection to his family, it's always been that they stuck to it. The fact that he blew up at her sounds major. Praying it is an opportunity for them to heal and mature?

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arneal   Thanks for checking in, two years under the same roof?  Wow, time really is flying.   I can't believe NG and I will have been together three years in January.  Things are going alright, we've established a routine and reality has set in.  What will change soon is that his 23 y/o, after Christmas, will be quitting her job and moving down to live with him.   For the past few years she's had a hard time finding her way, career-wise and personally.  NG is nervous, isn't sure how to manage having his daughter around full-time, and fears that it will affect our relationship.  NG describes himself as being "Dad Light" - he's twice divorced and when his daughters were very young, they went through shared custody and didn't have their Dad around a lot. I think that having her here is a good time for him to establish a deeper relationship with her and help to get her on her feet.  Not sure if she's here for awhile or temporarily, time will tell.   Of his two daughters, she is accepting of us so I hope to get to know her better too.    

 

Happy to have fall season here, but again I'm dealing with holiday stress - who goes where, when, and with whom.  My in-laws are still in on the holiday plans and it stresses me out.  Might be time to set some boundaries, and it will be hard to do this.  

 

 

22 hours ago, Julester3 said:

 I’m curious where we can go next but I’m also comfortable where we are. I liken our relationship as 2 parallel lines that intersect and then separates multiple times. Our lines are not intertwined. 

 

 

^  Good way to describe a Chapter 2 relationship, julester.  There are things in common and then a lot that isn't, and never really can be.   

 

sugarbell   My SIL was born in WV, and I witnessed Appalachian culture first hand through her.  What you describe is what my brother dealt with, he is now going through a messy divorce with her.  After 27 years of marriage there sadly wasn't a peaceful moment between them.  That culture seems hard-wired and there may not be a lot you can do to change it.    That's huge that he stood up to his mom, good for him!  

 

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Hey trying2!

 

Interesting, the daughter situation with your BF. I'm in the process of trying to get LH's things packed and sent to his daughter. I decided to try and get a company to pack and ship it all, but since I'm not moving a house, it's getting irritating. I don't answer the phone during the day because of work. I tell the rep's to send me the quotes via email; I have photos of what I'm sending, with measurements. They still want to talk ... lol. The one that got me was the quote I got for over $2300; it was based on a shipment for a multiple bedroom with a package weight of about 2000lb. I messaged back that I wasn't shipping a house and that my load was likely less than 300lb. The guy comes back with 'well, you don't need a mover'. I said, 'you are right -- my husband died and I'm trying to ship some things to his daughter.' I'm just about at a point where I'll tell them to leave off from messaging me. I plan to take off work at the end of the month to pack it all up. I might just load my car and go to the UPS store; I was hoping to get a small pallet and send it all as one thing, but it seems I can't do that ... because the darned load is too small for even an LTL (less-than-load) shipment.

 

I am just ready for this part of the story to be closed. I want LH's daughter to have LH's things. I'm over hoping she'll step up to the responsibility, to pay for it actually. She said her and her mom would help, whatever that meant, but I don't even want to have all the conversation it would take. My plan is to write an encouraging note, wishing her well, when I send it. 

 

If you remember, I considered having her come and live with me three years ago. Her story was in a way similar to your BF's daughter, trying2; LH's daughter is 33 and hasn't found her way quite yet either. I know I couldn't be the one to try and help her find it. It was hard, living with her, when her dad was alive; since she's an adult, I envision her feeling like it would be okay to do whatever ... and that wouldn't work for me. We don't have the same outlook on life and it would be too stressful, for both of us. Easy she'd probably think -- living in California, no rent (she doesn't see why even her mom wanted her to contribute to the mortgage, so why would she do it here?). I just couldn't.

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arneal   It will be a change having his daughter here, no doubt.  I have a heart for young people finding their way and feel like I can offer some support for her, should the opportunity present itself.   Definitely don't want to overstep the boundaries as a mere GF though. As NG is kind of clueless in the ways of kids and young women in particular, I'll most likely give more support to him as he adjusts to her move here.  My 23 y/o son is at home with me now, plans to be on his way in the next 6 months or so.  We can maybe blend a bit with both of our kids and see how it goes.  Of NG's two kids, this daughter is more agreeable and open to her Dad being in a new relationship.  Thank goodness.   :) 

 

I hear you on closing the story and moving forward. Expensive quotes to have LH's things shipped!  Can you move the stuff yourself?  Maybe consider packing those things yourself into a POD type of storage and then having it shipped?    I used a POD for storage for a recent purge of one of my storage units, and it worked well.  Not sure what the price of a move with one of those would be though.  Good luck! 

 

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I looked at POD and some of the competitors -- they are just too large. I'll likely pack, put the boxes in my car and take them off to UPS, and let them ship. I was just hoping to pop them on a small pallet and have one shipment, rather than multiple boxes. Oh, well!

 

I think I just struggle with the adult not finding their way thing. I left home at 18 and that was that. I had four years at college, the last two of which were in an off-campus apartment with a roommate. My parents helped, for which I am grateful. I worked crappy jobs and did what I needed to do. I can't imagine my folks saying it would be okay for me to have come back home at 20-something, to find my way. Different era I supposed; their parents weren't like that so neither were they. I had no expectations for going home, no desire to do so, no matter how dire things seemed. I guess I don't understand the 'not finding their way'. I mean, I do understand difficult circumstances; the man who does my pest control told me that his daughter came home recently. She had married and things went very bad, very quickly. She came home. If she had nowhere else to go in the immediate, I get it. But for LH's daughter, she's had more jobs at 33 than I've had in my life. It's more that she doesn't seem to want to do what's needed to get the jobs she really wants. There seems to be a lack of ability to wait and work toward something ... 

 

I likely sound like a very old woman lol! I don't know. My mom has said to me that she knows I am stubborn and likely dealt with things she can't imagine to survive over the years, instead of asking for help. She knows I'm the stubborn type :)

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1 hour ago, arneal said:

I might just load my car and go to the UPS store; I was hoping to get a small pallet and send it all as one thing, but it seems I can't do that ... because the darned load is too small for even an LTL (less-than-load) shipment.

 

Arneal, if you can palletize your stuff, UPS will pick up and deliver it to wherever. No need to take it to a UPS store. 

 

Go to their website, and drill down to "Find a Shipping Service" for details on the different types of shipping they do. They will pick up almost anything. I've used them to ship appliances and big machine tools - never with a problem.  

 

Good luck, 

Mike

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Thanks, Mike -- our local store isn't quite so up-to-date. I went there to ask questions and was pointed to their freight info online. For my store, there are no services. Sigh. It's honestly likely to not be difficult to get the boxes to the store; a high estimate is eight boxes. I was hunting for the easiest way, whereby I wouldn't have to shuffle her stuff around. I've gotten myself to a place where I'm over that. I'm great at packing, so it will add to the entire catharsis of getting on with life. I'm taking several days off to get it done.

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I'm sorry Arneal, I wasn't clear. Forget the stores - they are useless for unusual shipments. Do it totally online. The local store will not be involved at all if you have an oversized item or items wrapped on a pallet. It will be treated as a LTL shipment and you will deal with UPS freight dispatchers only. MUCH more professional than the stores guys. 

 

Good luck - Mike

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SB,  

Please be aware of the family dynamics. The hopes of change to healthier patterns can delay the inevitable.  I learned the hard way, and I really am not in this section now. But hindsight is 20/20. My former NG had his mother to "help" him with his kids every summer and break 7 years. She has flown in and taken care of the kids every other week in the summer. And any break they had he got them and he could not take off. I felt it was lovely to do, a sacrifice and so good for the kids. But when he got 50/50 custody, she continued to come in every other week. He could not change his system for fear of his ex taking him to court (and she has) . So the morning and after school programs were a no go for his sweet little snowflakes. They did not like being in care elsewhere. They have only been cared for by grandparents and their parents. And they have no friends, no sleepovers and no social skills and are isolated, honestly. But can tell you Betty White is their favorite Golden Girl.  🙄They are boys by the way.   So, post breakup and sharing with a single woman friend, she commented, "so, he lives with his mother half the time, too."   Well, Yes!  WOW!  And she cares for the kids and him!  How did I not see that?   From a widow with a child who also took care of her elderly mother, I was suddenly aware of his dependency. I don't have time for that. I need a grown man.  

So, he dumps me as I want inclusion.  And he can't do it. It will disrupt his flow. And his mom has his ear, too. She told him at some point she was afraid he would give up trying to get his boys and marry me. Well, I never asked for that. I wanted a blended family. It never got going, honestly.  3.5 years. 

I loved him, and we were great together in so many ways. But he was a package deal with lots of poor boundaries on both sides.  So, I haven't thanked him yet for ending it but some day I likely will.  He was not changing.  Even with couples therapy, he could not step out of his dependency and fear.  I am so thankful for my parents, and their appropriate care of me and my siblings. We were very, very fortunate. 

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Hey tybec! So good to 'see' you :)

 

Thank you for sharing -- it's true that the way we are brought up has such an impact, good and bad. I wonder what it is that makes some of us stick with the ways we were raised and others of us walk away from it. I didn't do the sleepover thing either and was raised by my grandmother, who was born in the late 1800s. My parents weren't into having me sleep elsewhere or having others come and sleep in our house. I was an isolated only child and still like my solitude, so am grateful that BF is a lot like that too. LH was all about being with people. It overwhelmed me sometimes; I was thinking about the time we had nearly his entire family at our place for a BBQ/reunion. My jaws clench, even after all these years.

 

To figure out who we are, and then to figure it out again when we are with someone, and then when we lose that someone and connect with someone else to figure it out again ... whew.

 

Thanks again, Mike; I think I need to pack the boxes to see what it really looks like. Nothing is strangely shaped; I can fit everything into a box of some sort. It might not even be enough to palletize, which is what I'm suspecting. Either way, it will work out.

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Arneal,

I hope I didn't offend anyone or you.  There is so much more to the story that I did not and won't share.  I have many grandparents and other relatives rearing children out of need and they are amazing.  The problem is the former NG and his ex have a desire to have children do certain things, sports, theater, clubs, but yet the way they are having them reared by the grandparents has resulted in children who do not want to do those things. They also are delayed in many independent skills and social skills due to being reared by 70 yr old grandparents due to lack of allowing or teaching or experiencing.

YOU are very independent. These kids need a lot to learn basics other children know. And neither parent can see that the choices they are making are leading to dependency.  Peter pan kids. No chores, can't tie their shoes, cannot interact with other children. They are developmentally in a stage to do so, not little guys. But anyway. 

 

Again, can't share it all.  I am happy you had a wonderful grandparent to raise you and teach you independence, too. 

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Oh, no offense at all! My experience is certainly very different than most. I was taught for sure but raised isn't a word I would necessarily use :) I learned a lot on my own, which I wouldn't ever recommend for a little person, but looking back, I realize my own special needs didn't make it easy back then to 'raise' me ...

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You are absolutely correct Tybec. I am sure you have a sense of relief to be away from all of it- Yes, I am sure sadness and shock too, but yet relief. I can't do it. I know this. We will not live together or get married until his Mom is gone. That may never happen. (because my intuition tells me she will outlive him)

 

She never helped in child rearing, she is very very codependent and he has to take care of her. It's just weird.It has definitely made me put on the brakes in our relationship. We are exclusive, but I am very busy during the week, and enjoy the occasional companionship on the weekends. The entire family is so dysfunctional- it's like beyond anything I ever imagined existed. I grew up in this area and had no idea families in this area were this way.

 

He is a wonderful man. But way too much baggage for anything beyond what we have now. 

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sugarbell   Does your guy know how you feel?  Wonder if anything would change, if he knows that you're not moving forward with him, his family situation the way it is.  Does he have siblings that can help care for his Mom?  She sounds very needy!  

 

NG's birthday is this weekend - again I struggle to figure out what to get him.  We talked about having dinner together and that's it, but he's been so generous with me and I didn't want to not gift him anything.  So ended up getting a spa gift card, he can book a massage or whatever he likes.  He's been working so hard lately and it will be appreciated I think.  I have a hard time encouraging gift giving, and I'm not sure why.  In reality, I do like to get a little something - doesn't have to be expensive or anything, just the thought and effort that counts. But I have a hard time saying it.  One of those love language things with me, I guess, but it's hard to express it.

Edited by trying2breathe
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Ooh, trying2, am so right there with you! My love languages are acts of service (primary) and gifts (secondary) and I struggle to ask for both. What are your NG's love languages? Are you still discovering them? I know I have thought about just handing the book to BF and asking him, but I pretty much know what they are. I just struggle to action them ... Sigh. 

 

Hoping everyone has a great weekend!

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21 minutes ago, trying2breathe said:

sugarbell   Does your guy know how you feel?  Wonder if anything would change, if he knows that you're not moving forward with him, his family situation the way it is.  Does he have siblings that can help care for his Mom?  She sounds very needy!  

 

NG's birthday is this weekend - again I struggle to figure out what to get him.  We talked about having dinner together and that's it, but he's been so generous with me and I didn't want to not gift him anything.  So ended up getting a spa gift card, he can book a massage or whatever he likes.  He's been working so hard lately and it will be appreciated I think.  I have a hard time encouraging gift giving, and I'm not sure why.  In reality, I do like to get a little something - doesn't have to be expensive or anything, just the thought and effort that counts. But I have a hard time saying it.  One of those love language things with me, I guess, but it's hard to express it.

I have a hard time with the whole gift giving too. Receiving and giving with NG. 

 

Yes, he knows. I think he was relieved that I wasn't looking for a husband immediately. We had the discussion about two years ago. We are in year 3. He won't ever "leave" out there. If his Mom would pass away, he would be open to living somewhere else and keeping the land (where they all now live) as a hunting camp. It's really not fit for anyone to live out that far in my opinion. LOL..Yes, as a camp- but not as a residence. My excuse is "My 3 kids are so active and so involved and I live 2 minutes from the schools"- He knows exactly how I feel. I think he's scared I am going to just be done with all of it. My kids like him, they don't need any disruptions right now and it works since I am independent and busy..but sometimes well, its really not enough.

 

The pickings are slim here. I didn't move back to my hometown for my social life though. LOL

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NG doesn’t like gifts either. His birthday is in December. So I usually spoil him with home cooked treats and things he likes that I make. For my birthday he bought me earrings. Last year he made me a hat for Christmas. I got flowers for my birthday. So he’s a low key kind of guy. 

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Hi everyone! I made it to where I was headed, but as soon as I parked we realized that my transmission was going, oiy....

Thank goodness I made it before it went!!!!

I know that I will never have anything to do with my sister ever again, and that is sad and heart breaking in a lot of ways but has to be that way. She is so angry and abusive, and no one deserves that.

It was so bad that I waited until she was gone from her house and left under the secret of darkness 😥, scared and alone in the rain, but I did it and I made it!

I'm close to where my son is, and he has no idea I'm in the area, lol

When the time is right I shall show up to meet with him and try to see my grandchildren.

He is another one who is/has always been abusive towards others, and I've never tolerated that with him. He is also a pathalogical liar to the umh degree!

The lies my son has told about me and the family are sooo hurtful and damaging to me and the family. I don't think he even realizes or cares! 

I know there will come a time that even I will be gone and it will be to late for him, the "girl" he is married to won't be enough. I have heard him speak to her with such disrespect that it's sickening. Maybe she likes it, I don't know...

Anyways, I gotta find my charging plug for my laptop :) and I will stay in touch!

 

 

 

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sudnly -- I am so glad you made it to where you were going! I hope you are keeping a journal of all these goings on. As Captain's Wife says, you can't make this stuff up. 

 

Please be careful, even with your son. If he has the abusive streak, you don't want to get caught up. 

 

Does your son hear himself when he speaks to his wife and others? It seems some people need a wake-up call by being reminded of how they want to be treated or spoken to. Sometimes, if they hear something like 'I wonder what my boss would say if I said something that to him?', they think about it.

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4 hours ago, arneal said:

sudnly -- 

Does your son hear himself when he speaks to his wife and others? It seems some people need a wake-up call by being reminded of how they want to be treated or spoken to. Sometimes, if they hear something like 'I wonder what my boss would say if I said something that to him?', they think about it.

Thanks arneal :) 

Yeah my son has heard himself, and he just doesn't care! My dh and I have had that boy in counseling and spent years on trying to set his ass straight!

He has taken so much time from the other kids, from us, the kids at school, and now who ever else.

Ironically, I'm now staying with my ex husband, the biological father of my son (children)😮😏

We always remained somewhat friends , even when my dh adopted the two kids the ex and I had together.

My dh was raised in the same situation so there was a lot of understanding there. The ex had some issues he needed to work through and we were really young, ( I was 15, he 18, together 10 yrs back then).

It's now been 30 years (40 yrs total) and if something comes of this later then it will but for now we are just really good friends :) 

It will take my daughter a little more time but she is good with me being here, she even said the other day that I finally sound happy since dh has passed over 12 years ago, and she 

said I deserve to be happy . That made me feel really good.

So when the time is right, the ex and I will show up at my son's house (son talks to the ex) and see how it goes! Son hasn't spoken to me now going on 11 years...

And you know I will keep you updated on how it goes, LOL...

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I hear you, sudnly; my son hasn't spoken to me since late February or so. Granted, that's nothing like 11 years, but I can empathize. His dad (the first husband) was a very angry and abusive man. I too had my son in counseling early on because I didn't want him to go that way as well, but he did. He has a mean streak for sure.

 

Hoping you and your ex as a united front will help create change for your son!

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sudnly   Sorry to hear that you're dealing with some abusive family members.  Glad you're in a good place with your ex right now, stay safe! 

 

Sunday was NG's birthday,  tried to make it a good day for him and I think he appreciated it.   Gifted him the massage and a hoodie - awkwardly he opened his presents.  Guess receiving gifts isn't one of his love languages??  So I told him that the hoodie was from the dog 😃 he laughed and then he was kind of okay with it.  Made his favorite dinner, watched the Pats game, a relaxing afternoon for the most part.   Then I got a call that my Dad was in the ER - and I left to manage getting him admitted to the hospital.  

 

So it's been a stressful week, my 88 y/o Dad moved yesterday from the hospital into rehab, will have a couple of weeks there and we'll see where he goes then.  I'm glad that he's agreeable so far to what's going on, hasn't always been the case with him.  NG has been supportive, and I'm so grateful.  Also have the help of my brother that lives here, together we're partnering to take care of my Dad's needs.  It's interesting that my children's 4 grandparents are all still with us - all in their mid to late 80's.  And their Dad passed away at age 49.  sigh .....  

 

Got to a street Halloween party last night, sat in a camp chair and greeted trick or treaters.  Had a couple glasses of wine and some chocolate - just what I needed after this week.  

 

TGIF! 

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