Mizpah

Before I say anything about your topic, Maureen, I don't think we should be discouraging people from talking about ANYTHING. There's nothing wrong with people working through their new relationships, and if there's not a topic going on that fits your needs, create one. Navigating life post-widowhood is hard, and new relationships can be part of that. Judging people for leaning on one another during those challenges... it's no good. I remember being a new widow, and the social/relationship part was always very busy - I rarely read or commented because it wasn't where I was at. So what? No harm to me to have other people talk about what they were facing. We're all in this together. Or should be. We should be free to talk about whatever's going on in our widowed lives. This place is for support, am I right? Ok, Maureen. I'm so sorry. A few things that came to mind as I read. Many of us often bristle at being called strong. I've never really minded it. He11 yeah, we're strong! We've had to be. We've had no choice! I think we have this conception that being strong cannot happen while we are emotional, or hurting, or feeling need, or feeling lost. To me, the strength is in grappling with these things - with the events in our lives and in processing them and in making whatever each of us will of them. Another thing I think: don't underestimate the mental impact of not working. I had a period of not working in my life, and it threw me for a loop (I also was crashing with my parents for a bit). You feel outside the world a bit. You lose a routine that keeps you in some kind of momentum outside yourself. And don't underestimate the difficulty of living with aging parents, especially where you feel such a cultural not just disconnect but tension/difficulty. You are in a really hard time. You're ready, but still waiting. I've been there. It's so hard. And for me, when things are hard in my current life, it makes the loss of my past life hurt that much more. I'm thinking of you, and hoping for some movement for you in a good direction. Sending big hugs.

I think you know what you need to do, you know what's right for you and, maybe most importantly, for your partner. It sounds like he's really suffering from getting less than he needs, less than he deserves - and it seems like your problem with giving it has nothing to do with him and isn't personal. If it IS personal, and maybe he's great but you're just not into him enough, that's another story, but it doesn't seem to be what you're saying. I've been on the other side of this, been the one emotionally tortured by having a partner who is unwilling and/or unable to deal with his "stuff" (he's a widower too). (So I guess I'm biased, and I'm sure that will come out in my "opinion.") It's not fair to your partner. With my partner, the nagging thing for me was this - "If he truly cares about me, how can he inflict suffering like this when it is purely voluntary and doesn't need to be, when he could choose not to? How is this love? This isn't love. It's not supposed to hurt like this. He's supposed to love and protect me, be my haven from suffering and the world, instead he's my biggest source of pain." I constantly had to go through the same internal process: hurt by something he did or didn't do --> being distraught --> realizing, through this pain, that it wasn't personal --> feeling a bit better because I know it's about his limitations and not an expression of his love for me. We've had major improvement. But it's been at a cost. And very often, for a long period of time, the situation simply was that he had a partner and I didn't, because he wasn't truly available to me. All that being said, I will say that I have been on your side of it, too, dealing with a loved one's illness absolutely horribly in my case, total fight or flight and I fled, because it was too upsetting to even contemplate what was happening and what could be the eventuality. I hope you can get yourself where you need to get to be able to enjoy this relationship and this person fully. Think - if you do end up losing him to death one day, you will not only have the pain of losing him (which I don't think we can buffer ourselves from by being emotionally protective, honestly), and also the regret and guilt and sadness of not having allowed the relationship to be what it could have been. As for me, I delved deep into my grief. I left no stone unturned. I didn't shy away from anything. And while I'm certainly not over anything or any of that garbage, I call my heart a starfish - I feel fully regenerated and totally available to love NG. I won't say without fear, because (I'm also an accident widow) every time he's late, I jump to death as the only explanation and panic. But I do love him without reserving any of myself away for protection. Yeah, it hurts. And if anything happens to him before me, it will HURT. But I'm not going to give myself or him the short shrift (is that the phrase?) while we're alive and able to live and love. Is this the most preachy, obnoxious response ever? I'm sorry. Feel free to disregard. Like I said, I'm biased from my own experience. I hate to see widows and widowers less happy because of the aftershocks of grief. Haven't we suffered enough? The gift that keeps on f'ing giving. Go to therapy! Maybe bring your guy with you? F*ck death. What an @$$hole it is.

This is it right here. The best thing we can all do is float over the waves, let them ripple smaller till they're gone (or till the next ones), and not add fuel to the fire (excuse the mixed metaphor hahaha). I still get a little shot of adrenaline run through me and a tightened stomach every time another thing happens or even really when I think about her, just because I'm now conditioned to anticipate upsetting craziness - my goal is to not only not react on the outside, but to not be affected on the inside. One day, right? Kudos to all of you staying healthy and sane despite this MADNESS! xoxoxo

Thank you for this beauty and perspective

I'm so sorry. I'm thinking of you so much. xoxoxo

So lovely! So happy for you all!

I hate to be all "let's look at the bright side of this," because I hate the positivity cult, but honestly, the good news is that what you're saying is stuff "normal" non-widowed people say when going through breakups. You liked him, he hurt you - you have feelings! And to the extent "rebound" is a thing, you got that out of the way? Breakups are painful because they involve detoxing from someone who gave you the things we all crave. And this one especially because he helped you find comfort and refuge from your grief. It's going to take time, and suffering, to get over him and having someone. We're all here. I'm cheering you on.

Oh gosh. That's huge. Do your parents still live in that town? Wow. Consider yourself listened to. Thinking of little 10-year-old you. How unfair for you. Big shadows over things. Wow. xoxo

DH's boss was walking the line with me and tempting me to cross it (he had a gf) right after DH died. I was extremely vulnerable, extremely emotional, and desperate for comfort and connection. I somehow prevented myself from engaging, but I can see how it easily could've gone the other way. Even without taking part, just the possibility and his attempt was very destabilizing for me back then, so I can only imagine how uncentered and adrift you must be feeling. I know it's painful, but being free from this situation and this individual (I cannot believe the insanity of that three-way phone call), I believe that later, once you are ok, you're going to realize how lucky you are not to be still with this person. I hope that you can re-center soon. Have you been seeing anyone (therapist)? Time doesn't "heal all wounds," but it sure as h*ll helps. I hope you can refocus on yourself and build strength from the inside out. I'm thinking of you. Seriously, F this guy, I'm so glad this episode is in your rearview mirror. Lick your wounds. This guy is not the answer to your pain. I'm so sorry. How terrible.

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!!!

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. Hoping and hoping and hoping with all fingers crossed that everything goes well. Thinking of you. Keep us updated. xoxoxoxoxoxo

Maybe it's time for you two to have a little family meeting (just the two of you), and huddle for a few minutes, look at what's going on, recognize what he needs to do legally this week, recognize what still remains to be done for the wedding, envision a worst case scenario, decide how to handle it if it comes to be, accept that it could come to be, remind yourselves that it's all going to be ok even if she never is, and come up with a plan for the rest of the week (realizing plans can get messed up, but preparing as much as you can for it as you wish it to be, and according to what could happen), so this is not ruined for you. Demand some control, from yourself, from you two as a couple, to the extent possible - realize to what extent you can determine things, and take control of those parts. I say call a couple's huddle. Take just a few minutes to re-focus. And now I'll stop advising and sermonizing! Hugs and love

It's too late, but my only advice, as someone who is in a relationship with someone who has a kid with a very malicious, manipulative ex who does the same to their child: don't get involved. I made the mistake of doing this once, years ago, in response to something she said - and she completely flipped out. It made things much worse, and what I said was FAR more mild than what you said. It is entirely possible that she will attempt to use anything you said against you and NG. NG's ex over here flipped out so crazily that it's the last time I've spoken to or acknowledged her, and she's not permitted in our home, or even really to linger in any way on the property during pickup and dropoff - she used to come in for pickup and dropoff and chat a tad. I've actually threatened to involve law enforcement (and will if I need to), that's how bad she is. So, if she's anything like my NG's ex, brace yourself. It can get much, much worse - believe me. (The day we came home from the hospital with our baby, NG's ex showed up, screaming about various things.... And that's not even close to the worst of it.) When someone is crazy or into drama and manipulation, any involvement or contribution is only fuel to their fire, that's what I've learned. Removing myself from the situation as much as possible has contained things far more than involvement would have. There are of course little flare-ups for me, when NG and she have issues, and it's nothing I'd ever choose into my life, but like I said, it's far less than it would be if I were directly engaged with her. Try not to let her put a shadow over your weekend. That's probably exactly what she wants. Focus on the love you share, the values and principles you embrace, the children - reject her and all she stands for from your mind as much as you can. She won't always be in your life like this. Don't give her too much emotional power. She's truly not worth it. She's to be withstood only - try not to get entangled and give her attention. Good luck. I hope she doesn't respond or that her response isn't nuts and upsetting. And I'm excited for you for your wedding!

By texting NG repeatedly when he's late or doesn't respond, with, "Are you ok?" "Are you ok?" "Hey, can you call me? Are you alright?" Don't be like me. I default to death scenarios, immediately, always. It's no good. Accident widow 6+ years out. Hoping to get better in this regard one day. A girl can dream.

There came a time for me, when I became somewhat socially and emotionally functional again and I began asking myself: "What now?," and, "What next?" I started craving a big change. I started needing more in my life. I think the buds of it came out back when I was at about your stage, and it became unavoidable around two years for me. I wanted a huge change but didn't know what, and I remember thinking that I wished I was married to someone who had to move for work, far away somewhere I'd never thought about wanting to go, so I'd have to undertake a big change that came about through no decision or action of my own. I needed something to look forward to, to know that I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life in the way that I was - a way that was great and fine for that time, but I didn't want it to be forever. I ended up taking a big trip on my own (I didn't have kids) and things that happened on the trip jumpstarted me into life again, both through events and people, but also internally and emotionally. I ended up getting what I wished for soon thereafter - fell into a relationship, became pregnant, moved far away to be with him. My story is a bit extreme. (A bit being an understatement perhaps?) But. I don't believe in stuff like, "If you will it to happen, it will happen," but it kinda did for me. I wanted to know what would happen too. Now I'm 6+ years out, and I know at least part of it. And you know what's strange? I feel a bit nostalgic for that time in between, where I was kind of suspended in a strange state somewhere between full devastation on the one hand and immersed in a new life on the other - a no man's land of sorts. I don't have a real message or lesson here, but thought I'd give you my experience.... I'm thinking of you.

Oh my gosh. I'm a bit overcome thinking of his daughter losing her mother and then him so young, and of him and his Jenny, a story I know only from his posts, so not at all well. I distinctly remember his post about his young daughter asking questions he couldn't answer - it stuck out to me then and now, though I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary in the post. Just truth. He seemed kind and honest and real and interesting to me, and I didn't even ever message with him. Thank you for this beautiful post. I'm so sorry to all of you who were close with him. That little girl.... My heart's breaking.

I'm so jealous. I aspire to this!

When NG is late coming home from work or - worse - from hiking, where he's out of cell service range, I fear the worst until I hear from him. Sometimes it just flits through my mind, and I'm fine. Other times, I'm fixated and terrified. I'd love to stop this sickening kneejerk fear, but years ago on a Friday morning, DH and I left for work, excited for the weekend, and by noon he was in brain surgery, and the weekend was death. I used to think of widowhood as stripping me of some kind of innocence I used to have - innocence of potential outcomes. I can't seem to get back to that innocence. Maybe soon. Over time. More time.

Overthinkers unite! Hahahaha. My initial reactions to things are almost always negative and strong. It's a character flaw, perhaps, I don't know. I frontload concerns and worries and drawbacks. So one of my first reactions to this involved the marriage issue: what am I doing tying myself to someone who doesn't want to marry me? So I said I wanted the mortgage and deed in my name only. He said joint, and offered that he is going to write a will leaving his part to me and our DD. (He'd refused previously, concerned about seeming to disinherit his son.) As soon as he said that, my feelings about marriage changed - because my understanding of his commitment level changed. You are right: him wanting to do this with me means something to me commitment-wise. (On the flip side, he's really really excited about this. But has said many times that if I'm not into it, we're not doing it. The fact that he'd be willing to pass this up for me also means something.) And I also got a harsh a lesson in self-awareness (or a prior lack). As soon as I realized there would be legal protections for me and my daughter, I very suddenly started not caring so much about marriage. I say that with embarrassment, given just how much it had previously seemed to mean to me. I feel humbled for sure. Maybe I'm not as much of a romantic as I'd thought I was.

Thanks! Not sure yet as to timeline, as there are many moving pieces on all sides. I'm hoping for a long, drawn-out process so I can adjust more gradually!

Nothing final yet, but NG and I are buying a house (and land) together! An amazing opportunity came our way and we're going to take it. I moved 5 months after DH died - by necessity, because I couldn't afford our apartment on my own. Then I moved hundreds of miles to be with NG (not so new anymore). Both of them felt like things that happened to me. (And in a way this does too - it just happened, and we took it.) It feels huge to me. In my life individually (I've never owned anything really), and for us together. A project/mission/joint endeavor. I'm excited. And really scared. Things happening to me have brought me suffering, and I'm afraid. But this is GOOD thing happening to me. I think trauma has conditioned me to fear change and things that didn't come about from my own control. I'm trying to allow myself to be excited. I really am. I'm afraid to be. But I am.

I will *never* forget the RabidBadgerWid v. LiveWire blowout. It was INSANE. High drama. One for the ages. (It also made me leave the board, bc I had so little capacity back in the early days for stuff like that. So, yeah, civilized is good!)

Not to Portside, who feels the way he does (and believes I don't belong here), but to any who are coming here who were not married. I was not married. I only had a few far-too-short years with DH - yes, I call him that. We'd worn rings for years, I'd changed my name legally. We were part of each other's families. We had plans to start our own family. We shared a home. We shared a life. We planned a future together. And it was taken. From him. From me. From us. I was torn apart, devastated, reeling. The world made no sense to me. All I could see was his absence. All I could think about was his absence. All I wanted to do was talk to him, and I couldn't. He was my person. What people said here was the only thing that made sense to me. It transcended country and politics and often religion, and it transcended legal status. For me. I was in other relationships before that, at least one far longer. But no prior relationship was as meaningful to me, or to him. He was my person, my "soulmate." We didn't get the chance to have 10 years or wedding pictures or children, and that was part of what I was mourning. Calling it "partner loss" wouldn't have changed anything for me, about the experience in life or on the board. And not being on the board wouldn't have been good for me, and many over the years have PM'ed me to say something I said meant something to them (just like I wrote to many others over the years in gratitude) - we ALL have that power, to light a tiny light for each other, because we know how much it hurts. Differences in religion and custom and legal status, for me, were incidental, and I found comfort and wisdom and empathy in nearly all my fellow mourners, and also felt that, junior though I may have been in my relationship status with DH, what I experienced and thought was at times helpful to some others. To me, that's what matters here - finding comfort, support, a sounding board, and though the words have come to take on a derogatory aspect, a "safe space," where I could be honest about how devastated or hopeless I felt, or about things I felt guilty about, like feeling happy for the first time after he died, etc., etc. I think differences can and should be shared, and openly and honestly - as long as respectfully. I hope this thread will only encourage more comfort here, rather than less. Healing comes from processing and solidarity. We all have something to gain and something to contribute.

Back when I was new, in 2011, people were posting all day every day. It was such a comfort in the early days to read people's thoughts so frequently. It made me feel sane and not alone. I wish it was like that again, especially for those early on who need it most. (Also, if the FB group is the one I'm thinking of, it's not nearly as active as the board was, either, and doesn't seem to include many new widows - seems more veterans, unless I'm wrong.)

See, that's hitting on, and there's nothing wrong with it - good men (and women) *do* do it, all the time. I also completely disagree that widowers can't be in happy, healthy, successful relationships with non-widows (and vice versa). Many here have found just that. Simple point, though, that's really important for this community remaining what it is: this isn't a dating site, and widow get-togethers arranged here are not for the purpose of finding new mates or establishing new romantic relationships. The world is full of actual and on-line forums for that. What the world is NOT full of is safe places for young widows and widowers to find comfort and solidarity, to say whatever they need to say without worrying about the normal pressures and concerns of the outside world, including romantic complexities.