Off topic- Hate and violence

[Trying]

I don't pretend to understand the fear that minorities live with worrying that a person with authority and a gun can end their life without cause.  Being a white, middle class woman I don't worry if I am pulled over for a traffic violation that I could be shot.  Prejudice and disparity is still a very real thing.

 

I also can't comprehend shooting innocent police officers because of the act of a very small percentage.  Isn't that prejudice also?  How are we going to attract good men and women to become police officers with the very real fear of being shot down regardless of how you conduct yourself on and off the job? 

 

Where is the out rage on the horrific numbers of black on black shootings, particularly in Chicago?  Don't those black lives matters too?

 

Terrorism and radicals threaten our safety in this country and around the world every day because of ignorance and prejudice, we should be coming together not further dividing ourselves into "us" and "them" by race, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, or police vs citizens.

 

I don't normally comment on such things publicly and I held back from commenting on many divisive FB posts this morning.  I don't have answers or solutions, what I have is profound sadness.  My children are living in such a different world than I grew up in and I can not protect them from the harsh realities.

 

[daysofelijah]

It is scary. I don't like to talk or think much about it either. My husband was a HUGE news watcher and always pondering conspiracies and the end of the world, etc. So I prefer to live w/o that now.

 

It does hit too close to home though. I live in MN and my brother is a police officer in the twin cities. It's horrible that these things are tearing our country apart. Between this and the school and public place mass shootings, it is a strange, scary world our children are growing up in.

[Taurus]

Trump won't make it any better with his divisive politics. Brexit has shown what happens when complacency allows the restless to win. Hope the chaos in the UK should be a wake-up call to the American voters, because the same socio-economic who voted for Brexit are responsible for getting Trump to where he is - white, unemployed, anti-globalisation xenophobes.

[mmg19]

Well stated Trying.  I share your concern.  I wonder what has happened to "We are the World" and love of all humankind.  Just working really hard in my little spot in this world to see some good and praying my 2 boys will help bring about the civility and values needed for their generation. 

[TofinoMan]

I fear police.

They are the one and only group that scares me.

I've witnessed their brutality and rampant corruptness.

Gangs other than the police gang do not cause me any concerns, because I do not partake of the lifestyle, so I am not a worry to them, so that they have no desire to harm me.

But police in Canada are so extremely corrupt, and held unaccountable for their actions.

Want to get away with beatings, rape, murder, robbery, drug use, just becom3 a cop and you're exempt from following the law.

When it should be that they lead the cleanest lifestyle of all, and lead by example.

My last witnessing of their corruption was in my very own neighborhood just last summer.

It is vial what they do, and never held accountable.

If cops were kind and nice, and did their job to serve and protect as they should. ....people would like and respect them then.

They are hated because of their own actions.

And they just cover for each other.....its called  The Blue Wall internally.

See a fellow officer break the law, you not only don't report it, but you lie to cover their ass.

I see a few Hells Angels and feel zero fear.

I see a cop and i wonder if i am the next victim to suffer their sadistic ways.

[Jess]

Hope the chaos in the UK should be a wake-up call to the American voters, because the same socio-economic who voted for Brexit are responsible for getting Trump to where he is - white, unemployed, anti-globalisation xenophobes.

 

I have to put on my moderator hat for moment as this statement was brought to our attention. Politics are a tricky thing in a forum like this so we want to keep in mind that anyone needing support from all viewpoints and backgrounds need to feel welcome here. Although I do not believe there was any ill will intended against any member nor do I want to discourage open discussion from any member, making characterizations based on political leanings can have that effect for those that may have the leaning being described. Debate, thoughts, opinions are welcome but just make sure to mind that line. Thank you. Please return to your regularly scheduled thread.

[TofinoMan]

Hope the chaos in the UK should be a wake-up call to the American voters, because the same socio-economic who voted for Brexit are responsible for getting Trump to where he is - white, unemployed, anti-globalisation xenophobes.

 

I have to put on my moderator hat for moment as this statement was brought to our attention. Politics are a tricky thing in a forum like this so we want to keep in mind that anyone needing support from all viewpoints and backgrounds need to feel welcome here. Although I do not believe there was any ill will intended against any member nor do I want to discourage open discussion from any member, making characterizations based on political leanings can have that effect for those that may have the leaning being described. Debate, thoughts, opinions are welcome but just make sure to mind that line. Thank you. Please return to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

I would not report the comment or let it bother me because it doesn't personally affect me or cause harm in any way.

But i will say that i disagree when i read it as well.

So thanks Jess ☺

[calimom]

You know why we don't hear about incidents that have happened in Dallas, Orlando, Minneapolis in say, Australia or Canada? Because those countries don't encourage mentally unbalanced former military veterans to have access to ANY guns, let alone submachine instruments of death.

 

Yes, we get it, we get it, that in the US there are constitutional laws in place that allow guns. But seriously, AK-15s? AK-47s? The mentally ill can simply walk into a gun store and buy these? Do we want to continue on this path of death and destruction?

 

You'd think after Sandy Hook our elected officials would have put some reasonable controls in place. But no. Insanity (and the NRA) wins again.

[Virgo]

I had a long reply, but deleted it. There are so many factors that contribute to the violence. I just don't understand how anyone can just focus on one. No one wants to be held accountable for their actions.

[Portside]

Because those countries don't encourage mentally unbalanced former military veterans to have access to ANY guns, let alone submachine instruments of death.

 

Yes, we get it, we get it, that in the US there are constitutional laws in place that allow guns. But seriously, AK-15s? AK-47s? The mentally ill can simply walk into a gun store and buy these? Do we want to continue on this path of death and destruction?

 

You'd think after Sandy Hook our elected officials would have put some reasonable controls in place. But no. Insanity (and the NRA) wins again.

 

Heavy sigh. Oh my - so much mis-information.

 

I know of no country, state, empire, city or other political subdivision that encourages "mentally unbalanced former military veterans to have access to ANY guns, let alone submachine instruments of death." Nowhere in the US can anyone buy (or use) submachine guns. You simply can not buy or use them without a very expensive and very rare license from the ATF. Even Police departments cannot own them. Submachine guns were not used in any of the murders previously mentioned.

 

No, folks known to have serious mental instability cannot legally own firearms. But having said that, who decides when a person is deemed to be "mentally ill". Me? You? An psychiatrist? Ok, how do we get a person we suspect of mental instability to see an MD? By force? Lots of issues here for which I dare say none of us have workable answers yet.

 

"Insanity and the NRA win again". You may not be aware, the NRA accepts no monies from weapon manufactures, lobbyists or any business entities for that matter. They are funded solely by dues from their individual members - who are your neighbors, relatives, workmates, and folks just walking down the street that you walk by every day. Truly the NRA is a club whose members are just like you except they hold a different viewpoint as to the need and application of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

 

Moreover, the claim on many lips that “guns” are the issue is correct only in the most abstract sense. To blame inanimate objects for Dallas, Orlando, or San Bernardino, is to deprive both the victims and their executioners of their fundamental humanity. The Dallas gunmen may be evil beyond comprehension, but it is their actions, not their weapons, that must be of principal concern to decent people. The killers, and not just the killing, must be condemned without equivocation. Far too few people are willing to do this. So, guns are an easy out.

 

Enough of that. Back to the topic of this thread that Trying wanted to point out: Hatred - Mankind is tribal by nature. If someone thinks differently, they are not a careful reader of history and have not been paying attention. We are all members of the tribes we are born into and those that we join throughout our lives. Every one of us should do as much as we can to reach out to those unlike us and build the bridges to groups that are not of our own with great understanding and love.

 

It is the only way.

 

Best wishes, Mike

 

[Trying]

As I said, I don't normally comment on these types of things on social media because strong and differing opinions can further divide us. This is not a simple one dimensional issues.  While I am all for sensible gun control, I don't think guns are the issue.  Hate is the issue.  It was not guns that killed and maimed people at the Boston Marathon.  Suicide bombers are not using guns.  Hate, ignorance, and intolerance are the problem and taking away the guns will only mean a different weapon will be used. I don't have an answer for how we end hatred and stop violence as a means of expressing opposition.  The problem is not simple and neither is the solution. 

 

 

[calimom]

(Big sigh) for Mike. Let's separate emotion from the facts.

 

Guns and mentally unstable not the problem? Here are just a few examples:

 

* Virginia Tech 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, a student with documented mental issues gains easy access to guns shoots and kills 32, injures 17 more.

 

* Sandy Hook 2012: Adam Lanza kills 20 children, 6 teachers, as well as his mother. He had severe mental issues yet he was allowed to stockpile an arsenal.

 

* Aurora Colorado 2012: James Holmes kills 12 people and injures 70 others. During the trial, Mr. Holmes pled guilty by reason of insanity. He was thought to be mentally ill by those around him, yet he was able to stockpile multiple firearms and hand grenades.

 

* Orlando 2016, Pulse Nightclub: Omar Mateen kills 49 and injures 53 others. There were documented reports of his reported desire to kill people. He was able to obtain somewhat high security positions, yet many close to him believed him to be mentally unstable. He was able to purchase assault rifles.

 

The above is just a sampling of the horrible gun attacks against innocent citizens in the past few years. Agree that it's complicated to identify and treat every individual who is disturbed, and we sometimes do a good job with that, and quite often not. But let's at least stop handing them guns. We certainly can't control hate, but we can mitigate the violence with some political will.

 

Oh and Mike, those NRA membership fees? Sure they go to a little hunter safety courses and such. But millions are funneled to members of Congress in lobbying efforts.

 

 

[Guest TooSoon]

While it was certainly, categorically not the OP's intent, I fear this thread isn't going to lead to anything productive.  I almost posted something to the same effect yesterday but deleted it.  Just like everyone else, I have strong opinions on these things based on my own life experiences but I'm not here to share them.  I'm here because my husband died and left me with a small child to raise and a whole new life to negotiate.  I think we can all agree that the world is more than a bit mad, scary and incomprehensible right now and that it is universally disturbing no matter where your opinions fall on the spectrum.  It would be disconcerting to me if a new member saw this thread before all of the others.  It is going to be a long four months in this country until the election (and probably for some time after).  Maybe we should try to stick to what we're here for and focus on supporting one another through the widowed journey. 

 

As my grandmother always said when the conversation got dicey (which was often) and she wanted to diffuse it, "So, how are the Phillies doing this season?"  Let's try not to stir it up. 

[Jess]

I am going to go ahead and lock this thread.