Professional Grieving

[Guest look2thesky]

Just wondering if it disturbs people to see Internet sites or "online" counceling, from people and sources that seem to promise grief resolution for profit. Also book writers, publishing companies, and the like. Memorialize them with a photo frame, statues, or similar items. I remember when I was in desperation of the cancer, and saw how many miracle cures there were out there. None of which I believe would have done a thing. Not trying to portray negativity, but I have always considered these kind of things, very saddening. Anything I may have missed ?

[Guest littlebirdie]

I'm not into it. Profiting off of people's pain is gross. I'm not speaking about people who are trained professionals (grief counselors, therapists, etc), I'm speaking about what is referred to here on the board as "professional widows." Some people don't mind it; I am not one of them. I steer clear.

[Sugarbell]

Yuck!!

 

Another one is the "life coaches"....basically they don't have degrees in counseling or anything...but they can coach your life to success...FB and social media has given these narcissist an outlet. I hope people don't bite-but I am afraid some desperate souls do.

 

And yes grief... It's a biggie. You don't see many online degree counselors...The ones on social media are opportunists using "life experience" to make them the expert. Even though they feel it's a "calling" (puke) and they truly want to "help" others...Bottom line-Ego..money...opportunist. Just about everyone of the "sites" I have seen.

 

I am an ex pageant chick/dancer turned granola gal. I don't know a lot about most things-But I can spot a narcissist/ego maniac

 

(reminds me of the old pageant coaches/store owners).

 

 

 

 

[Needytoo]

I don't think you are portraying negativity at all.  I think it is great we are discussing this.  In the early days I almost fell for it, not now.

[Mangomom]

There are two "professional widows" that I follow online.  One Fit Widow Non Profit and Second Firsts.  Both women have lost husbands and are using their personal experience to help others.  That is what we do here.  It just so happens that these women have gained support from people and organizations outside their circle of friends.  I don't begrudge either of these women for taking a center stage in the grief world.  They both have a huge message to share and are privileged to have such a public forum.  As a matter of fact, our own "Wifeless" was just published on one of their websites as a featured author.  Good for him to be a able to share his beautiful message that we have been blessed to already read and even pass along to other people who are in need of the support.

[Guest look2thesky]

I think I ran across the one person's group. If I remember there was a 50 dollar fee to join. Ok so what did that money (times every member) go to ? I would be hesitent to share too many details of my wife's "journey". To me reading it or blogging it would probably make me more uncomfortable. I know it's a very personal thing. I know also that some people's experiences may help to share light on issues, but honestly to me it would probably draw out more uncomfortable feelings about the whole grief thing. But to each their own..

Also the ones for profit question me.

[Wheelerswife]

I think sometimes we have double standards.  How many of us have been to counselors or grief groups led buy facilitators who haven't been widowed like us, and we wonder why we have this sense of not being understood?  I believe some of us may have a "calling" of sorts to move into a profession that caters to those who are bereaved.  If they can do this and do it well, there may be no harm anywhere.  I'm not inclined to want to go to Camp Widow myself.  I've not gotten much out of grief groups that have topics and agendas for meetings, but some people might find those kinds of things helpful.

 

I know that this topic bothers some more than others.  PM me, anyone, if I'm just too ignorant to see what you have seen.  I may need my eyeglasses replaced.

 

Maureen

[calimom]

I guess I'm confused as to what defines a "professional widow". 

 

Having read maybe a dozen widow autobiographies, I guess you could say since the authors more than likely profited from their books, it would make them professionals.  I recently read at the recommendation of a friend, Catherine Tidd's "Confessions of a Mediocre Widow; Or How I Lost My Husband and My Sanity".  For me, it was one of the best books on the topic I'd come across.  Of course it was very relatable to me in the my husband and the author's husband died the very same day, and also we were both the same age with the same number of children.  Ms. Tidd also hosts a web site that helps grieving widows, so I am guessing that qualifies her for professional status.

 

I also would probably never attend a Soaring Spirits event, but a lot of people get a lot out of it, so what do I know?  The "Stiletto" widow is probably not my cup of tea (or glass of Cosmopolitan) but she seems to have carved out a life for herself post widowhood and is a writer on Huffington Post, so obviously there's something there.  I greatly enjoyed "Saturday Night Widows", but understand not everyone (especially those who are recently widowed) might not feel the same.

 

There are widows who offer their services designing and making memory quilts and the like, I see that as an innovative way to make a living, and people seem to like the results, so hard to think there's much harm or preying on the vulnerable there.

 

I dunno.  I guess I just think everyone's experience is so different, and if they find a book/conference/grief group/coach/memory quilt creator that helps in some way, it doesn't seem like a bad thing.

[anniegirl]

When I was widowed, there was almost nothing to be found on the web for younger widowed. YWBB and Widownet were the most populated forums but there were no widow bloggers really and the whole dead spouse book genre really hadn't taken off yet.

 

I've watched sites and organizations from their inceptions almost. Know many of the earliest bloggers. Watched some of them get book deals and make careers out of speaking and founding non-profits (people get paid to work at non-profits when they get big enough and generate enough cash).

 

The thing that bothered me then, still bothers me. It's the idea that some of these "pros" push that their method of grieving is the right one. The best on. The only one. They pay a bit of lip service to the "everyone's needs are different" but they sell a "system" and if it doesn't work for you, too bad.

 

The early multi-blogger sites censored comments that didn't fit with their visions and actively shut out people who wanted to be part of the fledgling  organizations because they had ideas that the creators simply didn't like. Kind of like the YWBB ignored members who wanted to add new forums or the vintage widows who would flame posters who posted questioning the "old ways".

 

I know some of the pros via blogging. I know a widow memoirist or two. They are lovely people (with a few exceptions though my guess is that those people probably weren't great human beings before being widowed). I know they don't view what they are doing as exploitative or harmful, and in most ways it isn't.

 

I have never been personally comfortable with the monetization of grief because, imo, if you are charging someone to come listen to you tell your story or walk them through your 12-steppish workshop on surviving this or that aspect of widowhood, this is - if not your main way of earning a living - is still a business thing. And being widowed doesn't make you an expert on anything but your own personal situation. Minus some real degree in counseling, you shouldn't set yourself up in a way that gives hurting, searching people the idea that you are anything other than just someone who went through it too. And when you start selling mugs and t-shirts, I think it's time to wonder if maybe you are too far away from the experience to be much use. But that's just me.

 

But widows are not the only ones to use pain and tragedy to find fame and a new job. America is big on this kind of thing as "entertainment". Parents who've lost children. People who've lived through disasters. Mommy-bloggers by the score have all managed to turn their "pain/loss/illnessthing" into a job they really like and maybe even a lucrative career. It's a weird off-ramp of the American Dream.

 

I don't recommend Soaring Spirits or Camp Widow to anyone. If it appeals, they will find it on their own. There are a few books I think are good but mostly, I think widow-booking has limited uses and some are completely unhelpful bs that have introduced misconceptions about grief into society that have been detrimental. People will eventually find books, groups and blogs that suit their own needs and interests anyway. And searching out blogs and reading material is almost part of the process - again, jmo.

 

The professional widow scene though is not some awful ponzi that is bankrupting or turning widowed into cult members though so it could be worse.

[Wheelerswife]

 

The thing that bothered me then, still bothers me. It's the idea that some of these "pros" push that their method of grieving is the right one. The best on. The only one. They pay a bit of lip service to the "everyone's needs are different" but they sell a "system" and if it doesn't work for you, too bad.

 

And being widowed doesn't make you an expert on anything but your own personal situation. Minus some real degree in counseling, you shouldn't set yourself up in a way that gives hurting, searching people the idea that you are anything other than just someone who went through it too.

 

I don't disagree with you here.  I don't follow any specific widow sites, but on some level, if someone finds something that works for them and for some others, I have no issue with sharing that enthusiasm with others.  I'm not religious, for instance, but if some people want to start a prayer group for believers...and it helps those people...I'm not going to object.  If they say that praying to the Almighty Mountain Top is the ONLY way to heal from loss and they guilt others into joining in, lest they are left behind...then, I have a problem.  And if you have to PAY to pray to the Almighty Mountain Top, yeah, I have a problem with that, too.

 

Maureen

[anniegirl]

Maureen, exactly. Asking people to pay admission (and the fact that things like workshops and camps are usually not centrally located, which automatically shuts out those without means), just feels wrong. Widowhood is alienating enough with tiering it further.

 

I ran across an article today on menopause that got me thinking about this professional widow thing again. And I know you are thinking, menopause?

 

But the person writing it was going on and on about what an awesome life-changing thing it was, and how we women should embrace it. Look at the bright side of it. Get all Oprah and find the inspiration. It was wrong to view it as the exhausting and almost endless process that it is. There was deep inner soul altering shit to be learned.

 

That's what professional widow stuff is (a lot of it). It's about "making lemonade when you got lemons". As if every awful. joy-sucking experience has to have a silver lining and that acknowledging the darker aspects - really acknowledging them - and remembering that we don't have to be grateful, positive or have an enlightening "growth experience'.

 

Sometimes experiences are hard and they suck. It's okay to feel that and not learn a damn thing from it.

 

You really don't need a guru. You just need to now that you are normal and not the only one who's facing or has faced this. I am not certain that requires a cottage industry.

 

 

[Linda L]

My personal pet peeve is the widows who solicit money from their fellow widows so they can write a book, etc.  It's one thing to make money once you've written a book, but to solicit your fellow wids to pay you to write it?  No way.  I am another who will never recommend Camp Widow or Soaring Spirits.  I have several issues with that organization, that I would be glad to discuss privately.

[Guest look2thesky]

I remember going to a cancer "rally" with my Wife when She was still alive. A guest speaker, food, band, etc.

After the speaker was done telling Her survival story, she solicitated funds, and was selling a children's book, something regarding children with parents who had cancer. I turned to my Wife and said she's a major writer. Certainly she is well off enough to give everyone here a book, for free. I left feeling awkward.

[OSAAT]

So here is a question, as I am not familar with the details of these professional widows. Did the YWBB shut down because one or some of the old timers are professional widows and simply did not have time for something that did not bring in profit?

[Guest look2thesky]

I think I saw YWBB mugs, tees, and other stuff for sale on an auction site. Please maybe I'm wrong but I wonder too.

[anniegirl]

As far as I know, no one on the YWBB board is a professional widow.

 

Many of the Soaring Spirits folks - the founder, board members and original bloggers are ex-YWBB. Camp Widda was founded by someone who spent time at the YWBB. I can think of at least 2 widowerers who've written books (plural) spent time at the old board.

 

A lot of the older widow blogs (stuff that dates back to the middle or so of the last decade) were alums as well.

 

It seems that you are attracted to that type of widowdom or you aren't. Haven't found too many who are neutral on the subject.

[Guest look2thesky]

I would feel stuck in a rut if I based my widowing experience in a book or detailed blog. I know it possibly could help people early out but writing for profit about death and the impact would make me feel strange. Like I was profiting from my spouses passing. Just would be strange.

 

And just adding that I implied "writing for profit",

and not writing to share experiences.

[OSAAT]

Thank you for clarifying AG! I appreciate it and have a little more understanding now.

[anniegirl]

I think I should add that many of the early bloggers never wrote books or monetized their blogs. Blogging was just something that some of us did and we developed a tiny community and it helped. Some of us have left those blogs up even though we don't blog anymore because people still search and still read what we wrote - despite the fact that there are more books and social media today.

 

Fairly regular my old blogs stats will spike and I know that someone is reading through my story, which I hope is a help.

 

My only issue with the widowed industry is that it's always been about right and wrong ways to think about grief. There's no colouring outside the lines encouraged, which I think means that more people find themselves looking in and wondering what's wrong with them than not. I'm not okay with that.

 

I honestly haven't checked on the Camp Widow or Soaring Spirits offerings in a long while so I can't tell you what they do currently or how Oprah it is or isn't or if it's inclusive or exclusive, but in the beginning, I found it to be little (or a lot) of all of that.

 

And I will admit - complete disclosure - that I was completely banned from posting at the SS blog. Like completely. My comments were eventually never approved. So I am not impartial.

 

But I knew (virtually) Robin, who set up the Camp Wid website, and though we haven't communicated in a few years, I can tell you that her motivation was completely honest and sincere. She was in it to set up a safe place on the Internet in a way that YWBB and Widownet weren't.

[Sugarbell]

My personal pet peeve is the widows who solicit money from their fellow widows so they can write a book, etc.  It's one thing to make money once you've written a book, but to solicit your fellow wids to pay you to write it?  No way.  I am another who will never recommend Camp Widow or Soaring Spirits.  I have several issues with that organization, that I would be glad to discuss privately.

 

Yup.

 

The whole "Go Fund Me" malarkey is shameless.

 

Let's just stand on a street corner with a sign and bucket. Either way you slice it...it's the same. Except people on a street corner are usually homeless and hungry. I would rather give my money to them. At least they aren't wearing a fascade (even if the money doesn't go to food but they use it for drugs-At least they aren't hiding behind the veils of social media)

[Mac]

For me, the most powerful and helpful thing doesn't come from books. It doesn't come from workshops. it doesn't come from someone who says that they have discovered a "new way to do grief."

 

It comes from spending time with other wids and sharing.

[Carey]

Amen Mac.

[anniegirl]

It comes from spending time with other wids and sharing.

 

Exactly and I think that is the thing that professional widow stuff started out with but has steadily moved away from. You can't sell quality time, conversation and the feeling that one isn't all alone. That can't be packaged.