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Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ... between budding and fully committed ...


arneal
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Funny stuff sharing space. Our last couple weeks with no kids has been fun and not realistic.  He asked me to stay over at his place last night for reciprocity.  He had no food, no coffee, and the house is a play room for his kids except his room.  I wonder if he will pack his bag more often 😉.  I make dinner, breakfast, and HOST him in a way.  I have a home for 5,  and his home is big enough but a child's play room and man cave.  He can enjoy that! 

 

He has been at my home with my son a lot.  So, he is understanding our routine, and my son is comfortable enough to share his teen attitude, also. 😳 I don't see his kids enough to really be more than just a gf.  He does not want his kids to tell others they spend all their time with me and my son, so we don't.  AND that was part of the discussion.  I am not to be hidden away or not even be touched in front of his sons.  He says it is temporary until court, but it is so dysfunctional.  So unnatural.   Sitting by me or holding my hand is too PDA?  wow  He heard my concerns of this unrealistic expectation of interaction.  I have shared his kids have no one but elderly grandparents then to show how a couple interacts and he feels they are part of the divorce problem and they are. Anyway.

 

I was married by 21 yrs. old so, Arneal, though we were comfortable staying at my parents or my LH's mother's, I was a grown married woman.  So, I don't know what it will be like with adult children and visiting as I was a true adult then.  Their home was not mine.  So  maybe not an only child thing?  My 3 brothers and I were all gone by 22, college degrees and careers started. I know that is not the norm at all now. 

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Sharing space - not a problem to have DD here for the summer, I like having her here.  Adore my son but the dynamics are different - we start butting heads after 3 days together.  It's been okay so far having BF here with DD here too.  They get along well, she seems to enjoy having a man around the house and he's making an effort to include her in on some of our activities.  About sharing space with BF - it's getting more difficult having him here a lot as I do host him when he's here, he expects to be served and it can be exhausting.   We've gotten into a routine of cooking dinner at my house, and I pretty much do everything while he relaxes from his day. Last nights' comments about being tired and in pain were ignored.  He's a great guy, if asked he would help out but lately I'm not asking as I don't feel heard.  How do I get a point across when I'm not heard, and not feel like I'm nagging?  He brings flowers to me weekly - lovely gesture and appreciated.  But the flowers that he brings are always lilies, and I'm allergic to them.  I've told him twice, and yet the lilies keep coming.  I end up taking them outside to the patio, and he comments on how nice they look outside. 🙄 He wonders why I buy a spring bouquet for inside while his lilies are on the patio.  High class problem and trivial example, maybe - but how to be really heard?  I'd love to get a guys perspective on this too ......

 

Something's gotta give - I'm taking a few days off to help my Mom out as she starts chemo treatment.  Sad that my time to relax is when I can be caregiver for somebody else.  

 

tybec  There are some unrealistic expectations, NG has obvious great interest in keeping things straight with the court case but it is unnatural.  I attend court cases advocating for children in foster care, and what is presented at times are extreme examples of abuse and neglect.  I don't know his specifics, but generally speaking a paramour, PDA and beer in the fridge isn't even a blip on the radar.  Maybe he can somehow be made aware of this?

 

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Well, lots to unpack here. From my biased guy perspective:

 

He expects to be served? Are you sure it's that or simply a case of him not wanting to be in the way/your place, your way/etc.? If he truly wants to be served, that's bullshit. Perhaps involve him in some helpful activity - set the table, help cook, something. . . . Yeah, I'm pooped too after working all day but the fam needs fed. Drag your (NG) sorry butt off the coach and help.

 

Allergic to lilies - You asked him what, twice, to stop it? Have you considered screaming in his face "I'M ALLERGIC TO LILIES YOU DOLT!! I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES!! " Okay, not a good move but this is also bullshit. Take both of his hands into yours, look into his eyes and, one more time, tell him you get sick from those flowers. Do you hear me?

 

If you want a guy to to do, you must ask specifically for that help. Not, "would you help with the food, please?" but rather, "please get drinks for everyone." We are like that you know. :)

 

I hate to tell you this but this may be the best he ever acts. You are still new into this relationship and that's when we are on our best behavior.

 

Sad but true.

 

Good luck - Mike

 

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Thanks T2B and :Portside. 

 

Good insight. 

T2B - Yes, you are right.  I am a child sexual trauma treatment specialist (1997 started) , and I know more than the average bear. I took a break when my LH died in a car accident, my own trauma.   I knew the family court judges personally. I have been here in my  new town 6 months and learning the ropes of the new family court judges.  I tell NG those things are trivial, but he says it is different in a custody battle. His ex  brings up stuff like PG-13 movies are not allowed, and I am dealing with kids who saw murders of their family members. BUT the judges have great power.  His attorney already told him his judge is conservative and does not like sleepovers. It is a voted position but much power once there. Local attorneys don't debate as they have to live and make a living here. I know a judge who did shock probation for a sexual offender which is the against the law. Nobody questioned it. You go to church with the same people!  I understand. I am volunteering for a foster care review board now.  I was a therapist for a time for Therapeutic Foster Care agency.  I don't know how the judge does not pull his hair out hearing about brushing teeth twice a day when I know he hears my client's cases next.  Ugghhhh...

 

Portside makes a point. NG is direct, needs to be told (as Portside stated) , and responds well if I am  not over the top emotional or exaggerating things. I did call him on the lack of physical touch, and he commented, "I was courting you then."  I told him he is never to stop courting me.  🙄😃 He really is a good guy, but has told me he can be "obtuse."

 

Take good care of your mom, T2B. Tough stuff, taking care of aging parents and having your own kids. The sandwich generation is for real.  Hope she responds well. 

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Happy Monday all!

 

Mike -- love every word right there 😂

 

We all react differently to stress. For some, not feeling capable of doing more at home is sometimes a coping thing. My BF is like that. He is quite helpful at times and at others seems not so much. When I traveled for work, I came home to a sink with dirty dishes in it, something he says he dislikes. I didn't do them; since he had been off work that same week and I said I'd spring for dinner when he picked me up for the airport, I didn't fuss. I didn't go to my volunteer Saturday to give myself time to recoup after the trip; I mentioned that I was wiped out, describing my week. He took care of the kitchen. I ordinarily do that and the house chores because I work from home and as Mike said, I think it's still a my house/my way thing since he's only been here since February. Plus, my dogs live all over the house except for the master bedroom so he is outnumbered in the mess-maker department 🤔lol.

 

trying2 -- what tybec said ... and take care of yourself as well! And be sure to let BF know there better not be any lilies in the house when you get back from your mom!

 

tybec -- good for you, having the conversation. The whole judge and power thing is tough. My LH plainly told his ex that he and I were together and that she would have to get over herself. He did not hide the fact that we were a thing but we lived in a small town where more people knew him than knew her so there's that. Keep doing what you are doing -- {{{hugs}}}

 

We took a weekend away to celebrate BFs birthday early since it falls during the week and it looks like he won't be here because of work. It was a nice trip, wish it had been longer! I gave him his present today and he liked it. I plan to do minimal cooking while he's gone, back to how I did things before he moved in. Funny that the house feels empty without him here. Even the dogs feel it ...

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I think sometimes problems occur when women treat men as if they are other women, when really they are much simpler beings; this can be used to one’s benefit once one accepts this fact. They like/need specific direction-  hints or suggestions are just not good enough.  They are usually quite terrible at ‘reading a room’. In the beginning of my own relationship, I noticed a tendency to ‘date like a wife’. So, when I saw a feeling of resentment creeping in over something, I had to force myself to use my words and advocate for myself- explain in a loving and calm way exactly what I needed from him, or what I would no longer be willing to do and why. It has gotten easier to do this over time and I feel like I’m in a much healthier relationship than my marriage because I’ve learned from my past mistakes. It feels like a much more equal partnership. 

 

I have a widow friend who stews to me about her new husband’s lack of help around the house, but can’t figure out why her passive/aggressive approach to him on the matter just isn’t working! It’s funny, at work she is in charge of many men, but at home can’t seem to spell out to her mate exactly what she is needing. Of course, he’s perfectly content- who wouldn’t want to come home and not lift a finger to cook or clean? Sign me up for that! 

 

He does seem rather dense on the flower thing, though. Perhaps, every time he brings them, you could say something like; ‘honey, I love that you bring me flowers, it makes me feel so cherished. I just wish you would choose ones that I wasn’t allergic to so I could enjoy them inside the house.’ Repeat this Every Single Time until he finally hears you and corrects the behavior. I would definitely start asking for help with preparing meals: could you please set the table for us, please make us a salad, please open that bottle of wine and pour me a glass, could you help me with these dirty dishes so we can both sit back and relax?

 

Most men I know love to feel like a hero to the people they care about- but you have to (lovingly/patiently/compassionately) tell them how because they are really, really crappy mind-readers! 

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Appreciate the responses, all of them good.  I've taken a few days off from seeing him, resentment was setting in and I needed a break.  He's aware that something is going on, next time we're together we'll have a conversation.  He's not a bad guy, at times he's self absorbed and I think that's why he doesn't hear me.  He does help out occasionally, taking on the responsibility of lighting the grill 😄 and then I do everything else.  It is difficult to spell out exactly what I need, at times I look at him incredulous that he doesn't pitch in and help. This routine is gonna end, it's so frustrating to see him sitting there enjoying his beer while I do it all.   Lol - "You dolt, don't bring me any more lilies!" 😂  At least he's bringing me flowers ...... 

 

Obviously the indirect polite method doesn't work with him, so I'll try the more direct approach.  Update to follow.  Thanks again for the responses, appreciate all of the comments.

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tybec  How frustrating for you to deal with NG's attempt at being the perfect image of a parent while knowing full well the extent of family abuse and trauma.  I too don't know how these judges do it.  And the power and politics of it certainly bear on the case as well, who knows what is deemed important in a certain judge's courtroom.  I hope for you that the custody hearing is scheduled soon?    

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Thank you T2B.

  I have always felt I have somehow gotten through this tragedy better since I know children who live with so much more loss, pain and trauma than I have ever had.  I lost my half, but had a great love story. Many kids I see start out with great loss for their foundation.  It helps me to put things in perspective when I feel really sorry for myself.

 

The custody hearing was delayed until Aug. when school starts. NG was happy for the timing as we are in the state where they passed 50/50 parenting presumptive law. He was a great role in that.  It is a landmark law.  He hopes it will make a difference but suspects the judge will take things very slow, no knee jerk decisions because there is a new law.  The power thing, again.

 

Please take good care of you and your momma.   You wrote her treatments start today.  Healing prayers and thoughts your way.

Edited by tybec
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I didn't have prior experience as an advocate, sought this position after DH died.  You are right, this work takes me out of my sorry story and put things into perspective in a way that nothing else has.  I think that losing DH has made me a better advocate, too.  I can see where NG is walking a tight line in trying to make the best possible case for himself.   Nobody knows how this will play out, a tough position to be in.

 

Thank you for the kind words - Mom starts a stronger second treatment today, so far she's doing okay.  Interesting that at this time I need more sleep, time for introspection, time away from NG as he demands too much of me right now.  This has just began for her,  and I'm already feeling an emotional toll as her daughter and caregiver.

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T2B, Thanks for being an advocate!  CASA?  

 

Yes, knowing others and especially children, live through such trials and tragedies certainly puts me in perspective of things I take for granted.  

 

NG ends his week today with his kids. We have had  no adult time, of course, but his mother has been great in asking for my son to hang out with his sons, and pick him up while I work.  They get along well. My son is a teen but has already talked about being a camp counselor, so he does exceptionally well with his younger boys. I am truly amazed at how he handles them.  And they think he is pretty cool, too. It helps his mother out, too, as he can be the swimming guy or whatever, and she gets a break as she is 71!

 

So, a week now with NG and my son.  First one this summer. Not sure how we will manage our time.  Vacation in a week!  Lots coming up.  Feast or famine.  Make or break!  Breathing!

 

 

 

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Sounds like some deep real life, tybec. Those are the moments when we realize if this is 'it' ...

 

Anyone with plans for the 4th? I am thinking of asking BF to spring for some meat and to clean the grill since he's mentioned wanting to cook out. I am usually on stove duty so it would be nice to have him do it. 

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tybec  Yes, CASA/Guardian ad Litem.  Most fulfilling, best volunteer position, ever.   That's fantastic that your son is hanging with his sons, and the relationship with his mother is working out well.  Hope your time together goes well - yes, keep breathing!

 

Update on BF - had the conversation with him on expectations and helping out.  He was understanding, asked questions and offered to change things up a bit to improve the situation.  The conversation went as I expected, he's always been willing to communicate and been accommodating to whatever we discuss.  I let him know that the added demands of caring for my mother leaves me less available to the relationship.  We'll see how this plays out - he did mention that he doesn't read cues well and needs a direct approach.   I feel like we're graduating to a new level in the relationship, honesty at the forefront and it feels good.  I haven't yet talked about the lilies 😆 that's next.  I expect that he'll take that conversation well, too.  

 

July 4th - strange to have one day in the middle of the week.  Grilling is part of our lifestyle 😁 and it's BF's job usually to manage that, so we'll see what ideas he comes up with. I'm hoping for decent weather here to see fireworks, it's been so rainy here lately.  Happy 4th!

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Meh on the 4th.  NG didn't have his kids.  DIdn't last yr. either, as it is how the calendar falls.  He was depressed, anxious and out of sorts. We had no plans.  My memories on FB popped up.  from 2008 to now.  LOTS of fun activities on the 4th. Blah.  Last minute invite by my son's friend to his house to watch their own bought ones. NG went. Low key.  Okay. He said we leave for vacation on Sat., so we will have lots of fun, then.  He is right.

 

Our last family vacation was the 4th of July in the mountains, 7 yrs. ago.  Well,.  my DH had hacked my phone and wrote  on FB about Me stating I had the best husband ever, and I was the luckiest woman in the world and worshiped the ground my husband walked on.  And that we had the best family vacation ever.  Gosh, this new love life is challenging. I smiled at my LH's joke.  It was so HIM, my class clown guy. And NG is wonderful and special in his own way.  Have to make new memories.  Hoping for the next week to be amazing. 

 

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So sorry to hear that your NG had a struggle, tybec. It is always hard when such difficult situations create inner turmoil, no matter what. 

 

That is interesting about the memory pop ups on FB. I don't get any pop ups related to my LH, maybe because I have no relationship status anymore. I got rid of widowed and have no status at all. Hm.

 

Ah, vacations. With work, we haven't done like a whole week or anything, but since being in this relationship, I try hard to get a weekend away with BF every so often. And thankfully I get paid time off now, so occasionally take a day all to myself 😊

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Can't do it.  This must be why at closing in on ten years, I'm still not recoupled.  I understand there needs to be compromise and understanding and all that good stuff.  I mean I was married before so I do get it.  But, I also see a pattern with people  where they are more than willing to put up with....well.....bad treatment.  Communication problem? Maybe.  More like passive aggressive behavior.  Are you lonely?  Yep.  Are you desperate for companionship?  I think a little bit with some people.  And I get it.  I really do. I miss it too. I fell hard for a man after DH.  Started out great, then slowly but surely lowered my expectations.  Huge chemical reaction when I'm around him.  Ran into him months ago and wound up in bed with him.  Guess what?  Nothing has changed.  So I walked away hurt with feelings of being used.  I was crazy about this guy.  Am still not able to shake him.  So I blocked him.  Stay away from places he might be.  Did all the right things and guess what?  I ran into him anyway in the middle of nowhere.  Was it painful?  Yep.  Did I want to grab him and run off with him?  Yep.  He realized I'd blocked him so he contacted me on Facebook (we're not even friends on there).  So I blocked that.  I deserve more.  Is there a perfect man?  Of course not.  But if it's in the cards for me, I will wait for one that treats me with love and respect.  So in the meantime, I fill my life with friends and family.  Does it compare to love and romance and sex and companionship?  Absolutely not.  But it can't be at the cost of my heart and self respect anymore.  Just can't do it. 

 

Much love to all that are struggling with this new life and relationships.

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Hugs SW! You should never have to lower your standards and you deserve all the basic rites to a good relationship. I know your feeling and I have felt it but maintaining patience and maybe even stop looking and that right person for you just might drop into your lap. I wouldn't have believed that had it not happened to me. 

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Well-said, Julester. I took a break, re-evaluated what and who I was looking for, and went back out there. Feel very fortunate to have found someone who, as you said StillWidowed, I can find a good place of compromise and understanding with.

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Hi folks,

 

I have been holding out on you for awhile.  I jumped into the "deeper waters" thing and proposed to the woman I have been dating for more than a year and a half.  It's happening!

 

We took this slow, waiting from October to March to say we were exclusive, and getting to know each other and each others' families over time.  I was not fully sure until Christmas, which we spent with her family, and we all got along very well.  On June 29, we went up to a scenic overlook with a blanket to watch the sunset, and I did the "ask".  She was happy :-)  Pic in the online dating thread.

 

Take care,

Rob T

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SW   You do deserve more, you're wise to label that guy your Kryptonite. And good for you for continuing to block him.  There are decent people out there, it's not easy making a connection.  For me it's a balance of whether a relationship is worth the time, effort and occasional frustration. LH and I had our share of struggles pre- and post-marriage, and it was work to keep our good relationship going. I remind myself that it's an effort and continued work to commit to a relationship.  If it's what you desire, hope that a good relationship comes along for you soon.

 

tybec   Read the article, his frustration is apparent.  I've not yet seen this in my work, thank you for sharing. 

 

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So ....... NG brought me lilies - AGAIN.  WTF!!   I tried my best to smile, poured water in a vase, put them in it and quickly took them outside to the patio.  And AGAIN said to him, this time looking him in the eyes - "Sweetheart, I'm allergic. I love that you bring flowers but next time, please try something else".  

I think he heard me this time - I think? 🤔😜

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Oh, trying2!!! What did he say in response??? I think at this point, I would have handed them back, suggested he return them and never buy them again BECAUSE YOU ARE ALLERGIC (in all caps because you might need to shout it lol). You might also try dropping major hints, like buying yourself your favorite flowers, putting them in your best vase, and putting that in the middle of the dining table (or wherever he will see it when you both are together and having conversation), then saying 'What do you think of these? They are my favorite! I could put them all over because I AM NOT ALLERGIC TO THEM LIKE I AM LILIES' (lol).

 

I have not been a 'get flowers' sort, even though LH would do so from time to time (he knew I wasn't so into that) and BF got me a rose and balloon at Valentine's day so don't really have another point of reference. 

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