Drawing the line with the x?

[daysofelijah]

Since I've moved and we got engaged it seems as though NG's x has stepped up her communication with him. Some of it's about their kids which I am completely okay with. She suddenly decided to quit her job and is not going to work, so they have to figure out insurance for the kids.

 

NG is also in the beginning stages of cleaning out his place to eventually move to my place. Now she is starting to request lots of things from the house (that was theirs, but he took over the house in the divorce). Things like raspberry bushes, bird bath, flower barrels, etc. NG gives in to some stuff, and some stuff says I want it for our new house.

 

Then last night while we were out to dinner she starts texting him asking him to fix something on her car for her. This ended in a huge fight between him and I. I told him no, that was something he should not be doing. He says he is just trying to keep the peace for the kids. He is also the kind of guy that has a hard time saying no to anyone who asks for a favor. So after my big blow up he made an excuse to her about his air compressor not working so he couldn't do it. Learning how she is, I know there will be more requests for favors in the future though.

 

I've never dealt with the x before. All their communication is by text. I only saw her once or twice in passing at their house (when she was getting more stuff). They've been divorced for 5-6 years now so it's not like it's recent.

 

Ugh, learning how to deal with this stuff and not overreact is hard. I don't want to end up being the bitchy new wife, but I also want to make my boundaries about what is okay clear now, before we get married.

[arneal]

So been there! LH and his ex were legally separated when we met and eventually moved in together. I think I was finally a real threat; he had dated and lived with other women during all the years they were apart (he admitted that the reason there had been no divorce was he wanted her to cough up half the cost since their being apart was because of her in the first place). Before his health got really too bad to keep it up, he taught an African Dance class. She and his daughter danced. I tried it and it made me cry because I am so not coordinated enough; the only reason I did it was to be in class too. However, I got over myself She would come to class in these tight leggings and fawn all over him; he would look at her and be like, What are you doing? I didn't say a word and he told me that she had was acting like that because she knew he was happy and was trying to cause problems. From that conversation on, I ignored her. They finally got divorced and as soon as the paperwork came through that it was final, he and I were 'engaged' (we had lived together for about four years by then); of course she got angry when she found out (daughter told her that her dad had given me a ring; actually, he told me to buy the ring I wanted since he had no clue about what I might like as I have strange and always changing tastes lol) -- called him up and asked him if he couldn't wait until the ink was dry on the divorce. He told her that it should even be a thing since they had been legally separated for like 12 or 13 years or something. After he died, she was suddenly like a sister-wife or something, telling me that she loves me and all this.  : Even now if LH's daughter calls me she's often in the background, saying that she's here for me if I need someone to talk to. As if. I keep it kind because in her own wacky way, she loved him as well. She is the mother of his only child. She carries his last name. But we ain't gonna be best buddies.

 

The difference here is that LH stood up to her. If there is a way that your NG can come to an understanding that he is allowing her to use the children as weapons, that being nice to her is not going to change that, maybe it will be ugly for a minute but then life goes on. It is a tough place to be in. My NG is estranged from his eldest daughter (24? 25?) because the mom did a great job of brainwashing her into thinking he was the worst person on the planet. His youngest (23?) navigates them both and lives with him. They have a decent relationship. But the eldest won't come around at all, having swallowed all the crap that was fed to her. Yes, it's tough to accept, but the kids are their own people. If he keeps steady, doesn't talk bad or treat their mom bad but creates and maintains boundaries, they will see it. They may not accept it, they may fully accept it. There is no telling. But giving in to her? That doesn't help them. It keeps the ex in a place of power.

[daysofelijah]

Thanks for sharing your experience Arneal. You made good points. NG thinks that this is all about trust and that I don't trust him to make good choices with other women. But it's not really that. There's so much more to it. I don't want her to have a part of our lives other than the necessary part as the mother of his kids. And his kids are 17 and 19, so it's not like they should need to be in any sort of constant contact.

 

She's manipulative and knows how to get what she wants. And I'm afraid if she wants to still have a place of power in his life, she will do her best to get it. That's why I want him to stand up now and put up the boundaries that need to be in place for me to feel secure and respected.

 

Unfortunately I blew up and it ended up taking a whole direction I didn't want to go in. Everything seems okay this morning, we had our usual morning texts and chats before his work. But I think we need to talk again tonight more calmly about it.

[arneal]

{{{hugs}}} Yes, open communication will be key in this situation. Feel free to share my story or parts of it if it might help. You could always start off with 'I know this woman whose former husband's ex ...' so as not to get too deep in where you got the story

[Portside]

 

Ugh, learning how to deal with this stuff and not overreact is hard. I don't want to end up being the bitchy new wife, but I also want to make my boundaries about what is okay clear now, before we get married.

 

Yeah, it is hard. But, try to look at it from his viewpoint (as he should also look at it from yours) too. After yesterday's blow up, I'll bet he feels he has two cranky women to deal with. Not just one. And one of them (that's you ) is supposed to help him navigate all the ups and downs, the betters and for worsts.

 

Peeing in the corners to mark out territory and boundaries will only work if you include him in the decision process and not establish it by edict. If you do not, you will be a very unhappy woman sooner or later.

 

Here's the thing - all of you are navigating new territory - even the ex. Try to take a step back and help him work out a scheme that everyone can live with without a hassle.  I'm not saying roll over and give in to everything. Simply try to find common ground when it presents itself and be as reasonable as you can when it doesn't.

 

The kids always get caught in no-mans-land in a war. I'm sure you don't want that.

 

Good luck - Mike

[Trying]

Dealing with an ex is a whole new thing for me too and I find it very difficult even if the reasons are different than yours. I'm learning how complicated divorce is and that rational and logical behavior is not a given.  When I get judgemental or too opinionated on how he should be handling things with his ex it doesn't end well.  He gets more than enough grief from her and doesn't need me adding to it.  Having someone you love still involved in a dysfunctional relationship that you have to keep your nose out of is not easy.

[Guest Metv]

Exes suck.

[Sugarbell]

Crazy ex's suck donkey balls.

 

My late husband had a theory...When we started dating..after a few months ex girlfriends started trying to talk, etc to him. He said "Suddenly the guy is more attractive to them when he's with a hot intelligent woman". They feel threatened and want what they lost...it's primitive human biology"

 

So take it as a compliment....she's feeling insecure about you and him getting married. I've learned to totally ignore my guys ex. Seriously I keep my nose in the air and never bad mouth her to anyone publicly. It's like she doesn't exist or is so insignificant it's not worth wasting my breath. I'm this way to new guy too now...we don't discuss her it's always brief and to the point only about their kids (drop offs, vacation, etc)

[Guest Metv]

I don't agree w the make peace w the ex stuff.

It never works. Kid stuff fine. Everything else, nope.

[arneal]

Yes, Sugarbell! Not that anyone would ever label me as hot, but intelligent, certainly  But yes, this is similar to what my LH was getting at. His ex was feeling some type of way about what she'd lost. In recent years, she'd even told their daughter that no one had ever treated her like LH did. She's never remarried or held a long-term relationship from what I understand since they broke up.

[Sugarbell]

Right...if he's with a complete dud...the exs aren't as threatened. He's less appealing. It's what the ex perceives you as...NGs ex is still a crazy pain in the ass...but now I just pity her.

 

 

[calimom]

If you want to engage and fight with this woman over things like car repair and birdbaths, it's absolutely your choice. She may be someone who likes to push buttons and if she realizes her requests and actions bother you, she'll likely continue. She may move on to other things if she finds you don't react. And if your fiancee helps her with her car or gives her a raspberry bush, is it such a terrible thing?

 

I have two ex-wives in my life: my late husband's first wife. They had horrible issues mostly centered around their young child (who I was awarded custody of after his death if that gives you some idea). I'm still in touch with her today, but only at a distance. My long time gentleman friend had a "good" divorce and a pleasant ex. They too have older kids and some financial dealings. He recently drove her to an airport 200 miles away to catch an international flight, and it didn't bother me - mostly because it didn't concern me.

 

If you want to have a hate fest with this woman which will only result in continued stress, it's your call. My advise is to pull back, be friendly and polite in your limited dealings with her. Be Switzerland! Wishing you the best.

 

And one other thing - he shouldn't be involved in lots of petty texting back and forth with anyone while out with you. That's just plain rude.

[arneal]

Well said, calimom -- Switzerland! While there are some points that should be clear (where's the line), for the most part, being out of it is best. I talked with LH and didn't engage with the ex at all during our living together and married years. I spoke civilly when we'd go to her house to take prom pictures of the daughter but stayed in the background. When LH's dad died, the ex wanted to ride in the family car to the funeral. We weren't married then so I drove myself to the church and greeted family and friends who arrived before the 'family'; however, when it was time to process in, LH and I walked together, while his daughter and ex walked in together. Learning to navigate this thing isn't easy, but it can be done with dignity.

[jgib]

I believe if there are boundaries or lines to be drawn it is his responsibility to do so.

He is the one that has a relationship with her and he chooses how to handle it.  Don't let that taint your relationship with him....

[Guest Metv]

If it bothers you and there seems to be a lack of trust, my call is to take a good look at the future. If it bothers me, I speak up. Huge difference between communicating about the kids, and working on her car. Ok fix said car, it shouldn't involve 19 texts and replies. If it involves multi texting I would take it as he's not ready to let go. Still don't agree with what others write about having it not concern you. It already does.

[Sugarbell]

My guy friend would get crazy texts from psycho ex when we first started going out.

 

He never responded..unless it was kid drop off/schedule stuff he ignored her. Some were just ridiculous.

 

After a while she stopped....because she never got a response.

 

He's in the drivers seat as far as handling his ex.

[MrsDan]

 

Yeah, it is hard. But, try to look at it from his viewpoint (as he should also look at it from yours) too. After yesterday's blow up, I'll bet he feels he has two cranky women to deal with.

 

This absolutely hands down one of the most offensive things you've ever posted here, and that's saying a lot. Advocating for your emotional needs and what you think will ensure a healthy relationship is not being cranky. Honestly, it's pretty pathetic to use a grief group as a vehicle for vocalizing an obvious disdain for women. 

 

If there is a way that your NG can come to an understanding that he is allowing her to use the children as weapons, that being nice to her is not going to change that, maybe it will be ugly for a minute but then life goes on. It is a tough place to be in.

 

This hits it; she is using the kids to get to him, and he is encouraging that bad behavior. And anyone who would use their kids as weapons is seriously messed up and is not going to change. I find it interesting that he says he has trouble saying no to people; he certainly has no trouble saying no to daysofelijah, when she is expressing her needs. The relationship with the ex is over. There is no need for him to have any involvement with her that doesn't directly involve her kids.

[Portside]

 

 

Yeah, it is hard. But, try to look at it from his viewpoint (as he should also look at it from yours) too. After yesterday's blow up, I'll bet he feels he has two cranky women to deal with.

 

This absolutely hands down one of the most offensive things you've ever posted here, and that's saying a lot. Advocating for your emotional needs and what you think will ensure a healthy relationship is not being cranky. Honestly, it's pretty pathetic to use a grief group as a vehicle for vocalizing an obvious disdain for women. 

 

 

MrsDan, I know that you will not believe me but I do not post in order to belittle women in general or the OP in this case. Ever.

 

I post in order to offer my take on what a poster is asking. Yes, oft times it is out of step with what many others here have to say. But isn't that the beauty of an open forum? The possibility that someone you have never met may have an insight or view that maybe, just maybe, may be a way out of whatever it is that troubles you?

 

I am under no illusions that my thoughts are equal to Moses bringing them down from the mountain. They are just one guy's ideas. That's all. I could be wrong, I know that.

 

I am primarily interested in the Socializing threads because there seem to be many questions along the line of why is my guy doing this, why did he say that, what do guys want, why is dating a man confusing and the like. There are very few men that post here so I figure I have something valuable to contribute. I had a successful dating and remarriage experience. So, I think I have some standing. 

 

That's all this is. If you disagree with my possible explanation of the OP's issue, that's fine. It doesn't necessarily follow that your disagreement must mean I want to belittle women.

 

Best wishes - Mike

[Guest Metv]

Exes come in an absolute array of differences. Although it is never one size fits all, having contact (appearingly more than meets the eye), and making OP feel uncomfortable, is an absolute no go for me. And I would think most. Been there. More than once I ended a post widowed relationship because the ones I were dating, and involved in a relationship with, were in the "friends" zone too much for my comfort. So I ended it. Best things I ever did. If someone is interested in a future w me, my feelings should matter (more than the exes). You're a bit unclear as to whether you think he's responding to texts on which you feel uncomfortable, or anger / jealousy.

[Forgottenwife]

I think it is a good idea, as you noted, to get your boundaries clear before you get married. Maybe it may be a good idea to decide why this is important to you though. Is it just because she is his ex wife? If it was your sister or a colleague or a neighbor that needed car help, would you object to that? I can't fix cars but I do have some skills in other areas and occasionally a family member or a friend will ask for my help. If it isn't more than an hour or two and I have the time to spare, sometimes I am happy to do it. Honestly, if my partner objected to me doing someone a favor, I think I would be pretty insulted.

 

Just because people are divorced doesn't mean they have to stop being helpful. Your NG helping his ex may mean that she has more resources to help their kids. I have a good friend whos ex husband helps her out sometimes - car repairs, home repairs, surprise situations - he even took care of her mom after surgery for a day once. They don't like each other romantically anymore, but he and I have shared BBQ duties at one of their kids graduation parties. I am kind of impressed that they still have this kind of working relationship. The kids see that Mom or Dad needs something and their other parent steps up. It really does make the kids' lives so much easier.

 

Not saying this is right or wrong for anyone else, it is just their lives. I have also seen situations where people never ever for any reason speak to their exes and under no circumstances would they do anything to help them out. Everyone is different. Maybe your NG is someone that wants to be there for the mom of his kids and try to help her out, therefore helping his kids out, when he can reasonably accommodate her. This is something I would definitely want to know before you move in together. Best of luck in navigating this, these things can be tricky to figure out.

[Trying]

Although I don't want to defend Portside's blunt delivery I do think his male perspective is relevant.  My fiancé, when frustrated by his ex, often gives in just to end the argument and if I start nagging or complaining about how he is handling it he has said to me that he really can't handle two women attacking him.  Not having been divorced I am trying to understand or at least respect his position.  The time leading up to the divorce, the divorce negotiations and the time after were very stressful, emotionally exhausting, with lots of anger on both sides.  He wants desperately for that to be behind them and have a civil relationship for the sake of the kids. 

 

I don't think any of this means that we shouldn't be able to voice our own needs and boundaries in our relationship but I think that trying to understand our partner's motivation can help us approach the topic with less anger and defensiveness so maybe they can hear us better.  I am working at this myself, though too often my own emotions get in the way.

[Guest Metv]

8) 8)

[jgib]

Mike, I think you are dead right and more women should listen when you give feedback. 

Men think differently then women and I think any insight is welcome.  Doesn't mean right or wrong, just more things to ponder....

[fairlanegirl]

Mike, I think you are dead right and more women should listen when you give feedback. 

Men think differently then women and I think any insight is welcome.  Doesn't mean right or wrong, just more things to ponder....

It's the monolithic idea of 'how men think' and 'how women think' that I find a bit odd - frankly.

[Trying]

Obviously not all men think alike nor do all women think alike.  On a formum like this, where we are predominately women, and most of the men are here only in the early months, I think we at least need to listen to the male opinion, even if we don't agree, when we are looking for insight with the men in our lives.  I wish we had a broader range of men to share with but as my DH would say "it is what it is". 

 

I know my fiancé (and in the past my DH) thinks and reacts very differently than me.  I may not always be receptive and he may not always communicate well but I feel that we should each try to understand the perspective of the other. 

 

This weekend is an example where we both were set in our limited way of thinking and the tension felt insurmountable.  At some point you either have to agree to disagree while respecting each other's feelings or walk away.