Faith , church , God

[messageinabottle]

Ok I want this to be a safe place to post not to bash another's views.  (Just wanted to say that ..)

 

I have done so much soul searching lately.  So here it is .  I work for my church.  The Catholic Church.  I sit there day in and day out and hear very conservative , rigid , judgemental views.  It is hard some days to work there to be honest.  It is part time , pays decent , and is flexible.  I do go to church, I have faith (that waivers honestly) and some times I want to jump out of my skin working where I do but they treat me well, like me, I am challenged with work and it can be good.  But I hold my tongue quite often and sometimes I give them a real life view of what struggles are and how being single in a church...our church isn't easy.

 

But to be very honest although I find comfort at times with my faith.  It really has nothing to do with church but with my spiritual self.  All the rules of "the church". really have nothing to do with my heart , my faith and what is inside.  God to me is everywhere and certain rules of this or that does not make you more "Christian" or "Catholic".  I do not believe in my heart of hearts one religion is wrong and another isn't.  I think that we all find what works for us or doesn't and go from there.

DH's death changed me and made me dig deep.  I went back to the church I grew up in because I needed something familiar.  I needed something that was "home" because everything was so out of control.  So I went back to the Catholic Church after being away and low and behold I work there now.  Crazy world huh?

But when I look at all of this it is all so very personal.  How we process life, God and spirituality.  I like to think there is truly no one right answer about faith, God , prayer, no prayer , spiritiuality ect. 

So anyway after this long , rambling post.  I find myself in an interesting position.  Working for a church and yet thinking there is not a right answer to any of this. 

Kind of a tough position some days.  But I also think when you experience a death you evaluate life , and that includes your faith.

Have you changed your faith , thoughts, religion, spirituality , position since you lost your DH / DW? 

 

[keeptrying]

If you feel as though the church supports you, and gives you faith and helps you.. that is really important. As far as the people, you are going to find that in any church, and outside of every church. It is just how people are in general. Some people having faith, God and church helps them tremendously when they are going through hard times in life. It gives them hope, gives them the strength to move forward.

After my husbands death, it made me bitter, angry and a lot of other not so great emotions. I thought a lot about it, if there was a God, church, people I knew that went to church.. and nothing positive came out of it. But that is me personally. I wish I could believe and get comfort.

You like your job, don't let the people around you discourage you. You are going to get that no matter where you are. If it works for you, don't give up!

[Lisa]

Religion has always  been fluid with me. Im Catholic too but prefer to worship at the more liberal United Church of Christ. Thats when I get out of bed and go. My faith is strong. Prayer really got me through the darkest days. I think religion and faith are not the same.  If they were my employer too,Ii would probably most definitely worship elsewhere.  but I suppose they are "all up in your business".

For a long time going to church made me cry and I had a kind of post traumatic reaction. I was sick of crying in public. But my prayering was intense and regular. I understand people are very mad at God. It didn't really happen for me. I dont blame God. I think random bad stuff happens. Ibknow that isn't everyone's theology but it works for me,

[linda5]

I am also Catholic and I had my young parish priest over after my husband died.  This young priest was amazing ... wasn't rigid and old fashioned with his beliefs.  Told me it's okay to be angry at God, that God understands my anger and wants me to be honest with Him.  This priest also told me there is no right or wrong Christian religion.  I went to a medium and had everything the medium said typed up, along with my responses, and let my priest read it.  Then asked him why this was considered "bad and such a no, no" thing to do.  He told me he wouldn't say that.  He said I can see by everything he has here that he gave you a great gift of healing.  Said everything was to help me and my daughters heal, and this was a gift of discernment, and it's how a person uses their gifts that makes it right or wrong.

 

I was so angry at God that I was spitting nails at Him.  I'm over my anger for the most part.  I still don't understand it, and I probably never will.  All I can say is that when I finally let God into my life again, I did feel his love for me.  (Now, I still don't understand why my husband had to die.)

 

So, to get back to your question, I had faith, then I lost it all when my husband died, and now it's coming back around.  Why I've learned is that God didn't promise me a life of sunshine and lollypops, but He did promise to walk with me every step of the way if I let Him.

[lcoxwell]

Have you changed your faith , thoughts, religion, spirituality , position since you lost your DH / DW?

 

In all honesty, I grew up in a strong, Christian family and spent my whole life in church, pretty much every time the church doors opened. While my personal relationship with God was not contingent upon being there, there was just something special about being in church, amongst Christian friends and family, taking time to serve God and to worship Him.

 

The last few years of my Kenneth's life, I had to give up going to church, because he couldn't be left alone anymore, and I had no one to sit with him, in order for me to go. My faith in God never wavered, but I began to feel very disconnected from Him. I felt, in many ways, lost and adrift.

 

After Kenneth's death, I did not, at first, return to church. It had been so long, since I had been a regular member, that I lost my motivation for going. Like many others, I knew that God would still be God, no matter where I was. Quite honestly, though, I was still feeling very lost and adrift.

 

Then, I met New Guy, who is a strong Christian man. Shortly after we started dating, he invited me to his church. From the moment I stepped through the doors, I felt a sense of peace and belonging, that had alluded me for years. As you mentioned, I felt like I was coming "home". Returning to church has given me healing, in many ways. I have returned to praying more, reading the Bible more, and enjoying my personal relationship with God more than I have in a very long time.

 

I said all that to say this: My faith, thoughts, religion, spirituality, and position have not changed from the way I was brought up to believe and to worship; however, returning to the practice of my faith, which I had enjoyed from my childhood, has provided strength, healing, and peace, that has allowed me to work through many of my grief issues in a far healthier way than I ever could have without it.

[Sugarbell]

I understand. The work environment would get to me...I would have to zone out all the time. Lol

 

Yes...DHs death changed my views on organized religion. I grew up Methodist and was very active as an adult in the Methodist church. But I never dug deep until his death.

 

I still go to my church-but it's for my kids...Thw Sunday structure is good..good youth group, church camps, etc. personally I get nothing out of going on Sunday morning.

 

I still consider myself Christian...because I love Jesus...think he's a cool dude and choose to believe he's the Son of God. Even if I am wrong and he's not the Son of God...my life is better following his teachings.

 

But the church judgmental shit I can't stand.

 

I get my spirituality outside in nature. Some of my beliefs fall into the Wiccan and Buddist religion some Christian.

 

Basically I think they are all right. It's not a one size fits all thing.

 

I do not express this IRL...Bible belt and I just can't. I work my spirituality daily...but religion no.

 

So my experience made me less religious and more spiritual.

 

So much of organized religion is man made. Depending on which church and opinions of the congregation you go to. And how they choose to selectifully cheery pick parts out of the Bible to follow according to there needs.

 

Hope that sorta makes sense. I believe in good and evil. Light and dark. Not all the mumbojumbo some churches try to get into.

[ATJ]

MIB,

 

After a life shattering event I think it is natural, for most, to question ALL of our prior held assumptions and beliefs, religious or otherwise. When our world has been turned upside down, we look at things from a different perspective. I no longer know WHAT to believe and envy those who are certain at either end of the spectrum!

 

Other people in the past have fundamentally struggled with doubt and trying to find answers.

 

"So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them, because of the blasphemy. - If there be God, please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul. - I am told God loves me, and yet, the reality of darkness and coldness and emptiness is so that nothing touches my soul."

 

~~ Mother Theresa

 

"Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith."

― Paul Tillich

 

 

"If you would be a real seeker after truth,

It is necessary that at least once in your life

You doubt, as far as possible, all things."

 

― René Descartes

 

 

 

 

I wish you peace and serenity on your continued search for answers!

 

ATJ 

[rifatheroffour]

I was born and raised Catholic.  3rd through 12th grade Catholic school.  I remember my confirmation interview with Brother Bob in 8th grade.  When he asked me why I wanted to be confirmed I told him I really wasn't sure but wanted to complete the "process" and in time when I was older I may better understand my choice.  That was 30+ years ago.  I'm still not sure some days.  Through college I went to church sporadically.  I met my wife in college and she was Hindu.  We spent many hours discussing our respective faiths and boiling down our understanding of faith to what we considered it's essence for ourselves. We were married with two ceremonies celebrating both of our faiths.  For a few years I did not go to church.  After we had children it was my wife who led the decision to raise our children as Catholic and we found a Catholic church that we felt comfortable in. 

 

For me going to church has been about comfort.  It's what I grew up with and there is a level of comfort in being there.  The specifics of the faith and rules etc are not my first priority.  I appreciate the formality and traditions of the church as "comfort food" but do not always agree with some of the dictates of the church.  For me my faith is a personal connection and not about following the religion dictates in specifics.  Some will say then why are you Catholic and I can't disagree I may not be the best Catholic.  I see religion as somewhat cyclical there are times in your life where your faith and/or practice may wane and may come back in time.  What's in my heart and my actions towards others are far more important to me than my following the dictates of a specific religion. 

 

Since DW's death I have not had any deep feelings of anger toward God.  My faith in the fact that God exists has not changed but my commitment to going to church has taken a beating.  This may be in part that I do not feel any deep ties to my church.  The Priest we enjoyed for years while at our church had retired a couple years before she died.  When she died obviously we did not have a funeral at church for her since first she was not catholic and second we followed her Hindu traditions.  I did receive a call from our retired priest expressing his condolences and that she was such a beautiful mother etc. I never got anything from the new pastor.  This disconnect bothered and I guess still bothers me and may be the root of my waning commitment.  On top of that our current pastor (#3 now) is not very engaging and a bit too old school for me.   

 

Not sure what my point here is other than I get it, specific religions are not always right and our faith can come and go...and its all ok.

[Trying]

I have been having a struggle with church lately more so than with faith and have been struggling as to why.  Our priest is a wonderful, warm and caring man who was so good to,us when DH was sick, the day he died, his funeral and ever since.  Initially I felt comfort going to mass after DH died but somewhere along the way that has changed and I'm not sure why.  I just received a lovely card from our priest last week saying that he thinks of the boys and I often and is always available to talk.  In part I think it's being around all of the families that is difficult for me.  My youngest son is still in the religious education program that our church does as a family program so I have continued to go to that with him but there have been some tough topics that make me feel very uncomfortable in such a large group.

 

I am not angry with God.  I do not see him as a puppet master who picks and chooses the specific trials of each of us.  I think I do need to spend more time in prayer because it is a comfort and grounding force for me but I find instead I speak to DH.  I will return to church at some point I'm sure, I think it's important for my kids as much as for me. 

 

Thank you all for sharing your own stories. 

[Needytoo]

I had a horrible experience with religion as a teenager which I will admit didn't help with my religion beliefs or lack of beliefs.  My husband was Greek orthodox and we use to occasionally go to church.  I had no clue what was going on because it was in Greek.  No chance of going back to that church because I had my husband cremated.  Oops.  Right after my husband's death I did try a local church but I was way too filled with anger to get anything but more anger out of it.  Didn't help that the minister I hired to come to my husband's burial didn't show up which just fueled my anger. 

Since my husband's passing I would say I have grown spiritually and much open to new beliefs from many different religious/spiritual beliefs.  I think I am ready to try organized religion again and researching the different churches.  Because of my broader beliefs I am going to be trying the United Church after my Sunday morning pottery lessons are finished. 

[Virgo]

Before my husband died we never attended church. We both did as children, but not regularly. Our beliefs differed somewhat.  I decided that attending church might help my daughters grieve the loss of their father (and grandmother.) Our pastor is very uplifting, sending the message to be more godly instead of preaching end of days. I would not attend a judgemental, depressing church. I want to feel inspired to do more for others and to be a better person, not feel like I'm being punished in some way for every wrong decision.

 

It is hard not to question your faith after a loss though. I'm still slightly wavering.

[messageinabottle]

Thank you everyone.  You all have wrote things I have thought, felt or am feeling now.  Sometimes I feel like man if anyone at work knew how I really felt.  But yes I am to be a practicing Catholic for my job.  I do practice, go to church and participate. But inside I have been exposed to other churches went to other churches and loved parts of all of them ! 

I am giving my children a base.  What I grew up with and when they get older they will choose whatever they wish. 

I am exploring my spirituality and kind of mix it up along the way.  My beliefs are varied . 

Hard at times as I listen to those at work and think wow.  They haven't even really experienced life and are trying to tell others what is "wrong" all the time. 

But the job is good , the pay is good, the flexibility is good.  I just have to "zone"out a lot as sugarbell says.  And other times I open my mouth and make very logical arguments about the "real world".  Stop sitting up here in the office and go out and experience what is really happening. 

[Mizpah]

My Simon and I are/were Jewish.  He believed in Gd and I did/do not.  We weren't very observant but we both loved our heritage and were proud of it and were very into Jewish learning - tons of reading and going to lectures and panels about history and current issues.  When he died, I started going to synagogue weekly (to say kaddish, the mourner's prayer) - I learned Hebrew and took classes.  The ritual and traditions brought me comfort, the history made me feel strong (the thread of resilience and survival through suffering through so many ages).  The symbolism of many of the traditions felt so meaningful to me.  It gave me great comfort.  It seems strange to many people, including my family members, that a person who doesn't believe in Gd could find such great comfort in religion, but I have and continue to.  I find no contradiction in it, as I think a huge part of religion is tending to the most intense and meaningful events in HUMAN life, rather than the afterlife or any "higher" sphere. 

[robunknown]

I was just over the "I don't believe" line before DW was diagnosed. I would say that now I am in the "No one knows, and there is proof of nothing" camp.

 

Honestly if I met my maker today you would see me storm up and say, "What the fuck was that?!" (I really don't care how foolish that is)

 

The quote that I go to is:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.?

 

It irratates me when big religious folk don't think I have morals because I don't believe. Look folks, unlike you I don't need "Eternal damnation" to scare me into being a good person.

[Baylee627]

Church attendance record (2014/2015): Spotty.

 

2014/2015 Bible readin's: Um...gonna go with, "marginal".

 

Use of profanity: Heightened.

 

Signs of imminent recovery: Ain't lookin' good.

 

(Cringes).

 

All lighthearted joking and confessions aside, I am devout, yet imperfectly practitioning Christian. I was raised Baptist and Methodist (mixed denomination fam), but attended COC in college. I have decided that the center of my faith--for me, that's Jesus-- is key, and so the title on the door of the church doesn't matter much to me. In the past studying the Bible and attending church was very important to me, but...

 

Widowhood has definitely  violently spun me around, left me vertiginous, and so what I say or do may not always reflect or align with my beliefs. But I think God sees my heart first and foremost. (Not that He applauded my well-timed finger flip to the bubba slurping chaw in a Dodge Ram while riding my bumper, but I also don't think He's as straight laced and stringent as what was inculcated into me during childhood).

 

This thread is interesting; required me to soul-search a bit!

 

Baylee

 

 

 

 

[singinmomo4]

I don't know if it's really changed, maybe tweaked though.  I understand your feelings about the very conservative views about the Catholic Church.  It's one reason I'm so thankful for the one my children and I attend.  I'm Baptist but Rick was Catholic and we still support both churches.  The main priest there, Father E, is a much more liberal minded priest, not hardline at all it's made that church be as much of a family to me as my own.  I'm also really thankful for Pope Francis.  I think he is helping a lot with the church becoming more welcoming and non judgmental. 

 

As to how my faith has changed, I really had to search my faith as to why Rick and my anger at God.  Reading "Why" by Adam Hamilton and listening to his sermon series on that topic and "How Christians Get It Wrong" (I think that's the name of it) helped me a lot.  I don't blame God anymore and don't believe Rick's death was His plan.  I do believe God can take the shitty stuff in life and make good come from it in spite of the shittiness of the situation. 

 

Oh, MIB, good job holding your tongue.  I am FB friends with many of my more conservative church friends and I think they probably know more of my views now then they ever really wanted to.  ;D