Firstborn is making me crazy

[RobFTC]

So my oldest just did something that is going to command a lot of attention this weekend.

 

Some time back, I was trying to get us to church, and she came to me and said she didn't believe in God anymore.  Her assumption was that she was just going to dust off her hands and never have another obligation.  The problem is, she's >this< close to being done with a three-year confirmation program she's been doing with friends.  This leaves them in the lurch.  I made it clear that her beliefs were her own, but that something started should be terminated gracefully if not finished.  After some thought, I put to her that I thought she should talk to our pastor, pick out another adult friend to talk to, and attend a confirmation retreat to get closure with those friends.  She agreed.

 

That retreat is going on right now, and Miss R is not there.  When we started talking about logitics, she'd pushed back, saying "I don't believe so why should I go?"  I reminded her that we had talked about it and that she'd agreed, and that I'd have to have a compelling reason to let her out of that.  She grumbled.  Today, she packed and appeared ready.  Then when it was time to go, she made a very bad choice.  She locked herself into the bathroom and refused to go.  She actually packed some provisions and a quilt in there, on the assumption that she would have to stay for hours.  I made her drive to the retreat with us, but not stay.  We have had a couple of discussions already, mercifully at lower volume than the first one.  I always wondered if I was going to have to let her negotiate her way out, but this was not a tactic that I expected.

 

I am now keeping her busy for the entire time of the retreat, hoping to make this less pleasant than that would have been.  I have her doing some house cleaning, some essay writing, and she will have several discussions with me about a variety of topics.  Especially about negotiation and when you have to raise issues.

 

And instead of being able to go play for a few hours, I get to be the heavy.  Just great.

 

Rob T

[anniegirl]

 

I decided that I didn't want to be confirmed when I was 13. I still believed in God at that point but I didn't think I had the commitment required to say "yes this is my faith" - which is what confirmation is and what I was taught that I would be doing.

 

My father made me go through with my confirmation. I balked. I argued. I stopped short of complete insurrection because - honestly - I was afraid of his temper, and he'd elevated the art of the silent treatment to what might be considered Gitmo levels today. In short, I allowed him to bully me into it. My mother has told me more than once that she regrets not taking my side back then.

 

I sulked through the entire thing. I felt that I was being forced to make a commitment that I was not entirely sure I should be making given my doubts and nearly forty years later, I still resent the hell out of my dad for making me do something of that magnitude knowing that I had reservations.

 

I get that you are frustrated with your daughter and that it would certainly have been easier if your wife had been there to fly wingmate. You thought you had gotten through to her and she agreed to your conditions and then (like teenage girls do) pulled the rug out from under you.

 

But you are talking about a religious commitment that your daughter is making - not you - and it's got to be her choice or it's meaningless.

 

Yeah, it's three years of prep but that's why the prep is three years, so that people have time to think and decide. It's important and means something and clearly, your daughter - right now - isn't ready to make that commitment.

 

I believe that kids/teens are perfectly capable of sorting through their religious training and feelings and making decisions for themselves. And she has and maybe it would be okay to simply accept it and leave the door open for her to come back to it later - when it's her choice and means something to her.

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this alone but you only have to be the "heavy" if you want to be. Maybe this isn't an issue that requires "heavy".

 

 

 

 

[PhotoJunkie]

I have no sage advice as I am not religious and don't quite understand the whole confirmation thing.  I do however have tons of experience in the wacky world of teenagers where nothing ever seems to be easy.  I just wanted to send you lots of hugs as I know this issue weighs heavily on your heart. 

 

 

[Lisa]

Im sorry. How old is she?

[RobFTC]

LisaPop, she's 14.

 

anniegirl, I don't think we're talking about the same things.  This 23-hour thing is the kickoff to the final few weeks of the process, and is the first time in awhile she's had to spend with her cohort because of changes at our church and in the region.  I'd let her off the hook already for everything except this, but I wanted her to have some closure with those kids.  I expected her to be up front about what she was thinking, in part because I know some are also doing some serious questioning.

 

What I am unhappy about is finding out she's this militant at the last minute, when the decision affects getting her sister there on time, and complicates up my weekend as well.  I mentioned a couple of ways she could have negotiated her way out of going in a more honest and brave way.  I think that was heard.  She was such an amazing negotiator so young that it's a surprise she does it less effectively now.

 

We have had some good discussions tonight, and one very important one that took me by surprise.  The bathroom is also cleaner.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[Lisa]

Oh 14. I was a nightmare. I think you are handling this very well. Sending you sone extra strength and hugs.

[serpico]

My son is starting the Confirmation process (we're Catholic) and we had the first meeting this past week. I have to believe that if he tried something similar somewhere along in the process I would also play 'the heavy'. Yes, this is his commitment, but he's come this far as a Catholic and I don't believe I could let him suddenly stop because I believe he would regret it down the line.

 

I know our circumstances are different, but I also know how manipulative and indecisive teenagers can be.  I wish you well.

[mmg19]

I'm so sorry and wish I had words of wisdom or a magic wand to make things better.  You are handling this with finesse.  It is easy far afar and not knowing any of the people involved to offer advice.    Everything you have done is spot on from my standpoint.  Faith and commitment are important to me.  Girls at 14 can be so self-absorbed and rebellions and usually do not know what they want.  On the upside you will have the cleanest house around and maybe add using a toothbrush to scrub the bathroom grout.  I'll say a little prayer for you and your family and wish you some peaceful week-end time.

[anniegirl]

Rob, it's good that you had some good discussions. But don't forget that teens - whether they been this way or not in the past - do a lot of there reasoning on their own. That's part of what being a teen is. Separating. And they are - because of age and hormones and brain development (her brain is just as actively wiring and rewiring as it was when she was a toddler) - not "themselves" anymore and they are a ways off from being who they are going to become.

 

Yep, she inconvenienced you and her sister. Definitely needs to be addressed. But her closure and yours don't have to be the same thing.

 

One of the hardest things to come to grips with as our kids become teens and young adults is that they are really their own people and they have a right to decide who they are for themselves.

 

Yes, we still have a job to do but thinking for them isn't one of them, imo.

 

It's normal for teens and young adults to wander away from religion. A large percentage of them wander back when they are ready.

[RobFTC]

anniegirl, absolutely - she's got to figure things out, and this is when it happens.  It's pretty fun watching a lot of of it, too.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[klim]

Rob I get you.... my son is the worst for not following through on things...and it's a pain in the butt because then we have to adapt.

 

I've gotten to the point of when my son is involved in plans...I consider it not happening until it does.

 

 

I think I would have handled it in a very similar fashion .  And you scored a clean bathroom .BOUNUS!! I probably would have gotten negotiated down to him tidying his room.

 

[kjs1989]

Rob, Wow, what an ordeal. I get it. My 17 year old daughter is so completely headstrong. Always has been. I have never been able to convince her of anything or win an argument since she was a toddler. She was the same way with my husband. Her older brothers were much easier in this regard. They were much more "go with the flow." What your daughter did in locking herself in the bathroom sounds exactly like something my daughter would have done.

 

And the church thing. My husband was very strong in his Catholic faith. Me, not so much. I did not have a particularly positive church experience growing up for a variety of reasons. I have struggled with faith my whole life. And D's death certainly did not help the matter. But it was very important to my husband that the kids have a religious upbringing and I agreed. I wanted them to have that experience and maybe they would find what I was missing. I was actually the one that got the kids to their religious ed classes, retreats, confirmation activities, etc, because D was too busy and often on the road for business. They went through the whole confirmation process and to church with D every Sunday, although there were times my daughter went kicking and screaming.

 

Now, after D's death my kids, 24, 20, and 17 have completely stopped going to church. I would go so far as to say they are atheists. We have talked about it. They discuss religious issues with their friends, even. They don't believe. It makes me sad that they don't find comfort in faith, because it was so important and such a huge part of who D was. He saw the hypocrisy in the Catholic church and religion in general, but he would say that had nothing to do with his personal faith which gave him strength and a sense of peace. Again, though, it was something I lacked and I'm sure I have unintentionally influenced my kids.

 

I guess my point is, teenagers and young adults have so many influences these days. They don't accept things at face value what previous generations accepted. That is what it is, but it is really unfortunate your daughter took a stand in the manner she did right then and there. I would have had a very hard time dealing with that, too. I think you handled it very well, though, under the circumstances. There just was not much more you could have done. I agree that she should talk to the pastor or others before she decides this church gig is not for her. She has gone too far in the process to just quit something she may come to regret. She is younger than my kids, too. It is too soon for her to decide it is not for her.

[Guest Mel4072]

You are in the throes of adolescence. 14 sucks!!!! My baby girl turned 14 one week before her dad died. Oh, he missed the hardest year EVA!

Hang tough. It's a ride. Girls can be quite difficult... This is coming from one. I know how my brain works now.... Se times, it's scary. I catch myself in thought and think "what the heck?? That's just not right!" Teens don't catch themselves. They think the world revolves around them. Their emotions are heightened and they beleive their feelings over fact.

Good luck... Ear plugs, alcohol and Netflix if luck doesn't work.

[MamaZ]

The bathroom is also cleaner.

 

I just snorted coffee at that!  (:

 

Rob, I wanted to compliment you on not turning this into "you WILL believe, or else", but rather focused on what it means to commit and be reliable to others. Not an easy way through it, any way you try. I greatly respect what you tried to do, and greatly appreciate the humor that you somehow managed to retain.

 

Nice job, Dad!

[fairlanegirl]

 

Rob, I wanted to compliment you on not turning this into "you WILL believe, or else", but rather focused on what it means to commit and be reliable to others. Not an easy way through it, any way you try. I greatly respect what you tried to do, and greatly appreciate the humor that you somehow managed to retain.

 

Nice job, Dad!

Yes, I have no religious beliefs and I'd say the same - being reliable is the key thing here. I think you handled it very well by the sound of things, and the fact that she  did indeed do the cleaning etc. you told her to, rather than saying F--- you and running away, says an awful lot for you as a parent, and her as a daughter. It sounds like you are doing an excellent job, but I'm sure you knew that!

 

Just out of genuine curiosity Serpico, if one does 'suddenly stop' belonging to a faith because they don't believe in it any more (how could you in all honesty carry on if you decide you don't believe in the existence of God/gods, or that faith's version of him/it/them?) surely the church would welcome you back if further down the line, on mature reflection, you want to come back into the fold, with solid, renewed faith? Or is that not how it works? If a person is confirmed but doesn't really believe, isn't that hypocritical? I ask this in all respect, as I have friends who are Catholics, and some others Baptists (the mellow Antipodean version!) but have never discussed it.