anniegirl

Oh, Deedee, you are not bad at all. Your friends are just clueless (luckily so) and that won't get better either. One thing I would caution you against, is giving too much credence to what "they say" about how you are going to feel. Everyone is different. There are things about widowhood that are common but we move along and feel according to our own personalities and situations. It's nice to know that you are normal but your normal isn't mine or anyone else's. Cry when you need to cry and take a break when you need to do that too. And reach out when you can. Your friends don't know how to help you and it's okay to tell them what you need. Four weeks is not a long time. It's more of an up and down interspersed with plateaus then a steady descent into hell. It's going to get better and you will be okay.

What you are describing is just the process and it takes as long as it takes. The farther down the road you get, the less often events will rock you. But everyone is different and the circumstances of our lives is different and what one person weathers easily, someone else might not. For myself, I have found that at heading to ten years out, things have the power to dislodge me only if I let it. I can shut it down and if I can't I can think my way past by reminding myself that detouring into the past or the what-if's is not the best use of my time and it's not good for me or my life and the people in it. I think we absolutely should acknowledge the milestones but I am not so sure that sitting down and spending time with them is helpful as the years go on. It's okay to swat grief away. It's not suppressing or denying to decide you don't have the time, interest or energy to deal with it again. It's not like we haven't given it its due. None of this is easy. Even years on. We all figure out how to move forward more than back (and I don't think that grieving ppl are unique in backwards progression - it's kind of a human thing to fall off the track because change is hard regardless). Perhaps what is missing is taking stock of all the forward progress we have made. It's much easier to focus on the "back" than the "forth" and maybe we don't realize that we move forward even when we don't think we are doing so.

I don't think many of us every completely reconcile the feeling that we should have done something differently. Even though in most cases, the outcome wouldn't have changed at all. The feelings fade with time but when they do pop up instead of giving into to the "if only's", remind yourself that you did what you had to in the moment under incredible emotional pressure and that you didn't have superpowers then or now that could have changed anything. Give yourself permission to not look back. To not dwell on decisions that can't be unmade. You are a good person. You loved your spouse. There is no reason to beat yourself up for having done the best that you could possibly do. That anyone could have done.

No one can really answer this for you. After what we've been through, it's normal to question new love, and questioning is not a bad thing. It helps us make decisions about what is best for us. I think maybe the better question is not "is this love real" but "is this the kind of love we can build on" - if that is what you are looking for. But there is no hurry. Enjoy your happiness.

Maureen, exactly. Asking people to pay admission (and the fact that things like workshops and camps are usually not centrally located, which automatically shuts out those without means), just feels wrong. Widowhood is alienating enough with tiering it further. I ran across an article today on menopause that got me thinking about this professional widow thing again. And I know you are thinking, menopause? But the person writing it was going on and on about what an awesome life-changing thing it was, and how we women should embrace it. Look at the bright side of it. Get all Oprah and find the inspiration. It was wrong to view it as the exhausting and almost endless process that it is. There was deep inner soul altering shit to be learned. That's what professional widow stuff is (a lot of it). It's about "making lemonade when you got lemons". As if every awful. joy-sucking experience has to have a silver lining and that acknowledging the darker aspects - really acknowledging them - and remembering that we don't have to be grateful, positive or have an enlightening "growth experience'. Sometimes experiences are hard and they suck. It's okay to feel that and not learn a damn thing from it. You really don't need a guru. You just need to now that you are normal and not the only one who's facing or has faced this. I am not certain that requires a cottage industry.

Not small things. Widowhood upends us. In a lot of ways. It can be unsettling and make us question things that we've never questioned because we thought it was settled. Although I doubt that sexuality is something that can altered by anything, for women, it can be a more fluid thing than it is for men. Or so the research says. You and BW are young widowed in a world where that is not common. It's a powerful draw. Couple that with a kindred spirit thing and it's not a huge surprise that you feeling - not yourself. Don't over-think it. It simply is what it is - for the moment. And it's not a bad thing, right? Just a weird thing? I believe that we don't randomly meet people. They come into our lives for a reason.

When I was widowed, there was almost nothing to be found on the web for younger widowed. YWBB and Widownet were the most populated forums but there were no widow bloggers really and the whole dead spouse book genre really hadn't taken off yet. I've watched sites and organizations from their inceptions almost. Know many of the earliest bloggers. Watched some of them get book deals and make careers out of speaking and founding non-profits (people get paid to work at non-profits when they get big enough and generate enough cash). The thing that bothered me then, still bothers me. It's the idea that some of these "pros" push that their method of grieving is the right one. The best on. The only one. They pay a bit of lip service to the "everyone's needs are different" but they sell a "system" and if it doesn't work for you, too bad. The early multi-blogger sites censored comments that didn't fit with their visions and actively shut out people who wanted to be part of the fledgling organizations because they had ideas that the creators simply didn't like. Kind of like the YWBB ignored members who wanted to add new forums or the vintage widows who would flame posters who posted questioning the "old ways". I know some of the pros via blogging. I know a widow memoirist or two. They are lovely people (with a few exceptions though my guess is that those people probably weren't great human beings before being widowed). I know they don't view what they are doing as exploitative or harmful, and in most ways it isn't. I have never been personally comfortable with the monetization of grief because, imo, if you are charging someone to come listen to you tell your story or walk them through your 12-steppish workshop on surviving this or that aspect of widowhood, this is - if not your main way of earning a living - is still a business thing. And being widowed doesn't make you an expert on anything but your own personal situation. Minus some real degree in counseling, you shouldn't set yourself up in a way that gives hurting, searching people the idea that you are anything other than just someone who went through it too. And when you start selling mugs and t-shirts, I think it's time to wonder if maybe you are too far away from the experience to be much use. But that's just me. But widows are not the only ones to use pain and tragedy to find fame and a new job. America is big on this kind of thing as "entertainment". Parents who've lost children. People who've lived through disasters. Mommy-bloggers by the score have all managed to turn their "pain/loss/illnessthing" into a job they really like and maybe even a lucrative career. It's a weird off-ramp of the American Dream. I don't recommend Soaring Spirits or Camp Widow to anyone. If it appeals, they will find it on their own. There are a few books I think are good but mostly, I think widow-booking has limited uses and some are completely unhelpful bs that have introduced misconceptions about grief into society that have been detrimental. People will eventually find books, groups and blogs that suit their own needs and interests anyway. And searching out blogs and reading material is almost part of the process - again, jmo. The professional widow scene though is not some awful ponzi that is bankrupting or turning widowed into cult members though so it could be worse.

I agree with Lynn. Talk to a lawyer. They can advise you of your rights and possibly find out if the school had grounds to make a complaint in the first place and if they didn't, the school and the counselor need to be reported to the school district administration. Filing complaints for no reason is harassment and schools know this. It sounds like CPS doesn't have anything they can charge you with so now they are fishing in hopes of finding something. Not easy, but try to be calm. You have rights. You just need some legal advice to find out what they are and how to settle this issue. Good luck.

Christine, I know too well the pain of watching someone become someone else. Dementia is an awful thing in the elderly but a tragic and dangerous thing in someone who is young and otherwise healthy. So many arguments I had with my LH. So many friends who dropped us because "he doesn't look sick" and they were sure his behavior was something he (or I) could control. Your hospice experience should never have happened. That is not what hospice should be at all. You should have gone to the media after but I should have should my LH's DR and simply didn't have the energy. So much we have to let go. My sister started nagging me to date at four months out. She was one (of many) in my family, who think that aside from my daughter, LH was the worst thing that ever happened to me. They never mention him anymore. They behave as though I have always been with my second husband. I don't know how we reconcile ourselves. We start to look back less. We pack away the memories of the really bad stuff. We create and recreate new memories. New lives. But, imo, we become who we want to be if we allow ourselves. Give ourselves the space, time and cut ourselves some slack. I don't know what to say about friends. I cut some people loose. Time healed some rifts but not others. People have to meet you half way, imo. There are some things that grief doesn't allow us to get away with but our true friends and those who love us will make more allowances than hold grudges.

It gets down really to what you want. If you don't want the stuff and don't want to go through it. Get rid of it. If you can't get rid of it yet but have storage space, put it away and forget about it. Those boxes have a way of resurfacing all on their own. And then think and decide then. We combined houses. Stuff. Some stuff we still use but over the years things have been given to adult kids, charity or thrown away. Not memories. Just stuff. 8 years remarried almost and there are still boxes downstairs. I couldn't even tell you what is in them. We are renovating and will need to clean the basement this spring/summer and much of what is left will go. Because it's just stuff. The memories are in my head/heart. There's no hurry. If the clothes in the closet and the boxes in the basement aren't causing issues or pain. Leave them alone. You'll know when it's time to let them go in all likelihood. And if you never let them go, so what? The way I see it, if I am not likely to be targeted for a hoarder intervention, I am doing good.

It appears I am a little hard on myself. I am not "gone". Just pulling back. I have posted a bit more than was good for me and I breached a few lines I drew for myself. As ATJ pointed out to me in a private conversation, a bit of a rest is probably in order given that I haven't posted years. Thank you for your replies. They mean a lot to me. A little break then but not goodbye.

The one thing I did not want to do by picking up posting on "the board" again was make anyone feel as though they weren't grieving correctly or that they couldn't post as they needed to. That's what drove me away from the YWBB into permanent lurkerdom. It's what pushed me away from most of the widdosphere. Because even when there were no rules, there are still rules, and I have never been good with staying inside the lines that I haven't drawn for myself. Things have changed a lot in terms of forums and websites, which is great, but in some ways it hasn't changed at all. I may come back. It's foolish to say never, but right now, I've decided that damage has been done - by me - and that is sufficient reason to take my leave. This is a good place with good people and a lot of potential. But I am too far along and my perspective is out of step. And those things that still come up have no place here. My persona and it's contributions remain, and the PM box is tied to my email, so I am "around" but I won't be actively checking in. I wish you all joy.

I am with Maureen on this one. It's one thing to delete your own words and something completely different to erase someone else's. In this case a good, necessary conversation was being had about why a section for those in relationships is needed. Both AC and mom66 make good points that beginning to date and being in a relationship are not the same type of "social". But the comment about the potentially be a "so happy I'm in new relationship" section is what I was talking about in the deleted thread. People in new relationships and even remarried don't stop being widowed because partners and spouses are not interchangeable. Those people are still dead. Still mourned. There are still issues. And that can be hard to understand and hurtful for everyone. Maybe the problem is that the original idea of a social section being a catch all for all things relationships is past its expiry date and it's time to divide it into proper categories. It started out that way on the old board as a way to move the sex talk out of the general section. And it continued to be one big un-comfy melting pot because the YWBB admin refused to acknowledge dating and re-mating in the hope that those people would simply shut up or go away (since they were "all better now" anyway). So yes, I agree that there should be a section for people exploring the waters and there should be a section of those who've navigated to a place where they are working through the settling down again. Why not? The only good reasons for "why not?" so far seems to be "because I like status quo" or something like that.

You probably need to have conversation with your sister in person. This is a difficult thing to discuss via texts and email. And you might need a neutral party to mediate if that conversation doesn't go well. You both want what's best for your daughter. You both love her. That's a lot of common ground. Maybe that's where you can begin your discussion but if it were me, I'd do it face to face.

Sugarbell, maintaining a website like does have some cost associated with it. Domain names and hosting sites cost a little or a lot depending on size and the functions. There is a donate button on Widda's main page to help contribute with those yearly fees. YWBB had non-profit status so there was IRS paperwork yearly. I agree that people burn out. That's why it's a good idea for ventures like this to have a plan for handing things over. I don't think that the professional widows planned to become professionals but like their predecessors in the "from pain/trauma springs careers", they just stumbled in, found that they liked it and went from there. Some of them are decent people. Some of them are not. It will be interesting to see what happens with Soaring Spirits because they are in the process of "rebranding", which is the next step up on the commercialism trail. My guess is that not all the pro's are going to be making the next jump and the fall out will be interesting too. I know the Camp Widow founders and shuddered right from the get-go. It was small at first but it was obvious that it could to grow into something that is as helpful as it is alienating and that it would eventual separate the haves from the have nots in a way that just adds insult to the overall unfairness of widowhood because the reality is that in order to be allowed to truly participate in the Camp Widow and Soaring Spirits experience - you have to fit the mold. I am anti-mold. The board was always Lauren's baby and she made the rules. She tired of it of it long ago but hung onto it because it was hers. She closed it because it was hers. And since she's never been one to explain herself in the past that fact that she didn't now is consistent. She knows how it impacted people.

Lots of people do and I think if it works for you - go for it. Just don't get down on yourself if there are days (weeks) when it doesn't appear to be helping because sometimes knowing that your life surface-wise isn't awful doesn't always help you reconcile yourself with losing the one you love. But it can't hurt to remind yourself that you do have things to be glad about. Practicing gratitude falls under the "fake it til you make it" category and it's a valid coping tool.

It's just a nickname given to me by a co-worker that I've used as is or variations on since I began posting here and there on the Internet way back in the late 90's. Now that the 'net is changing and pushing us to use our real names, I seldom have need of my "anniegirl" persona but I use it when I can.

I am just a bit behind you and I remember your posts from the old board. It's been 12 years since my LH got sick and was eventually diagnosed. He had dementia almost from the start that worsened rapidly in the year after his diagnosis, so it feels to me as though he has been dead longer than he actually has been. He'd be 41. He was ten years younger than I am. It didn't seem to matter back then and I wonder if it would have if he'd not become ill. A what-if. I've been remarried for almost 8 years. Met a Canadian and emigrated and am now a citizen of Canada. Husband is the only father my daughter knows and most people are unaware that he isn't her biological father. Surprised when they find out because she is so much like him. Nurture over nature in this particular case. I don't have wicked grief moments unless I deliberately open that door and go back in time. Hanging around here to help get the site grounded and going has been a bit of a tight rope walk. But rarely do more than a few weeks in a row go by when I am not reminded. Not unpleasantly but I don't forget. Songs will come on the radio. I will notice the resemblance of around daughter's eyes. See a white truck. Really little things. And it's like "oh, right." I thought my fiftieth birthday would be a big deal but it wasn't. Or the fifteenth anniversary of our wedding. Nope. Maybe I am just too content and settled where I am at? The only thing that really gets me - in a guilt way at that - is the fact that I can honestly say I have never been happier or felt more secure in my entire life (and if you knew much about my childhood, you'd know how huge this is) and I couldn't say that when I was with LH even before he got sick. And I feel bad about that because he was a good man. He loved me. Looking back though is like reading a book or watching a tv show about someone else sometimes. Distance? Wisdom? Enlightenment? I don't know. But it's okay.

Halloween was a huge holiday for the LH and I. We began dating while we were constructing and then running a haunted house to raise money for charity. I loved to design spooky sets and dress up. He was more of a behind the scenes guy. Halloween fell the week after he went into hospice which was the same year our daughter was really old enough to understand and enjoy the whole trick/treat concept. The first place she trick/treated was the nurses' desk at the hospice. Killed the whole thing for me for a while after though I went through the motions for her. The last couple of years I have toyed with dressing up again. My daughter is nearly 13 and thinks it would be "cool" and my husband says "whatever you want" but he is not a Halloween person. You have to be a Halloween person really to get this, I think. Maybe you should dress up. If it's still something you wish you'd done and you spend time thinking about, it's probably something you need to do. For you. Dress the whole family up since your husband is willing to cooperate. Why not? I think some things that we miss or regret having not done comes down to "why not now?" and the answer points to the solution. Some things will always be regrets. Some stuff we've simply grown past and need to acknowledge that to ourselves. Both are important and valid." If you dress up, post the pics.

Just talking and sharing about the past is a fairly common thing that we all do. After all, widowed, divorced or single, we're not like new Barbies and Kens fresh off the shelf. But grieving is tears, missing, hurt, regret that even if the new guy/gal is the most self-confident, grounded and emotionally steady person in the world, they are - over time - going to start to feel not so important. Second. We are all only human. If you are dating someone who seems to you to be channeling a lot of emotions and doing a lot of thinking about the last love - whether that love died or things didn't work out - it can make you doubt yourself. Doubt the relationship. A little or a lot. That's the tricky part of dating/recoupling in the first year or two-ish. There is the unfinished business of grief. Because the constant of grieving winds down with time not effort. Like with our children (those of us who are parents), you can't totally hide the tears. For one, it's not healthy for anybody and two, it would cause more problems that it solved. But there has to be balance and it's the same in relationships. From my personal experience and those I know who've dated/remarried, the new relationship has to be a high priority (if not the priority) if it is going to grow and last. That's how it works. It's a good idea to share when you are having rough days and occasionally the new partner is going to be the shoulder you cry on, but it's also a very good idea to have a friend or family member you can go to so that your new love is your love and not your grief counselor. Both my husband and I are widowed. Initially, we were just LDR friends and we shared a good bit about our struggles but as the relationship changed and then we decided to date - that stopped. In the first couple years of marriage, we tired to be conscious of each others' "dates" but finally, I initiated a discussion about it and we realized that neither of us really like that and that stopped too. I know widowed couples who incorporate the past and present. Successfully. I know of instances where it ruined their marriages. Of the "mixed" couples that I know the past figures only as much as it has to and that usually because of kids. If there was a rule book and no exceptions to the rules ever, this would be easier. But relationships are like snowflakes (to use a very greeting care analogy) and aside from the "snow" part, every one is different enough that any but the most general rules are pointless. It would be terrific if we all started dating when we felt completely grounded and ready but that isn't normally what happens. The rules that do work are the same whether you are widowed or not: Be yourself. Be honest (but not brutally so). Ask for what you want/need. Treat the other person the way you want to be treated. Be kind. I think having expectations is not a bad thing in any type of relationship. Articulating them is where it goes wrong because we don't for whatever reason. Everyone on this thread has shared really great things and has (whether they know it or not) more of an understanding of how this dating thing after widowhood works than not. Dating hasn't changed. Relationships haven't changed. You've changed.

JustJen's Broadway thread evolved into a conversation about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which features loss, death, grief and even widowhood quite prominently in its sixth season. It coincided a bit with the end of my LH's life and I highly identified with characters - Buffy, Spike, Willow as they experienced things that I was livingat that time. I mentioned to Jen that perhaps we should have a thread for sharing good, resonating scences. The ones here are from the beginning of season six. Do not click through if you are not a fan of the fantasy/monster genre or if you are still easily triggered. Even nine years along, listening to Spike explain to Buffy (recently returned from the dead and isn't that a recurrent dream theme of early widowhood, eh?) that every night since her death he dreamed of ways to save her. Or listening to him easily recall how many days it had been since she died. Still hits a chord. Deep now. But forever familiar. If you want to share, feel free. Or not. No pressure. My conversation with Jen just provoked a memory, and YouTube made it easy for me to follow that train of thought. After Life (Part 1 of 4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13YSRsFSghE

@ATJ, Phew! Pleased you approve. This was one of the first posts I found when I went looking through the YWBB archives for caregiver posts. I am pretty passionate about the plight of caregivers given my own experience both with LH and watching my mother struggle with my Dad in years following LH's death. I hear you about anything medical. I had a wonderful DR who completely understood my need to be a total partner in my own health because LH's medical experience was fraught with misdiagnosis and incorrect treatment (both of which probably contributed to his dementia so early in the game) but I moved to Canada just past a year out and I have never found another health professional I trust as much. Canadian doctors are quite bossy. You can imagine how well that goes over. Anyway, this post speaks and if I saved nothing else from the old board, I felt the need to save this. I am glad you are okay with it.

So much in season six resonated. Spike when he's telling Buffy how long she was gone, Buffy: How long was I gone? Spike: Hundred and forty-seven days yesterday. Uh, hundred and forty-eighttoday. Except today doesn?t count, does it? How long was it for you? where you were? Buffy: Longer. Spike's intervention when Buffy is dancing for the song demon. Willow's rage after Tara dies and Zander reaching through it to pull her back. Watched those episodes - sometimes just scenes - over and over. Maybe we need a thread for tv/movie characters too? So much of what comes out of Hollywood is just plain fiction where grief is concerend (understandably b/c we want happy endings, snappy/witty dialogue b/c anything else is too scary) but there are the occasional spot on's. Joss Whedon just "got it". Cordelia's goodbye to Angel, for example. Willow's hesitancy with Kennedy. Joyce's death in season five. Powerful stuff.

It was a real place and now it's gone. I met my second husband there too. A pivotal turning point in my life, deliberately erased. Not easily reconciled. Even with my mixed feelings about the board.

I am a lyrics person. I will asked, "How can you listen to this or that?" and it's not always a show tune but it is always because there is a phrase, line(s) or the whole damn thing that just speaks a truth for me about something. Weirdly, my two go to's during the months leading up to LH"s death and the year following were the musical episode from season six of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Once More with Feeling) and Moulin Rouge. Sometimes emotions need words that have to be sung.