arneal

Thanks so much for sharing, patswife22 -- brought me to tears. Not difficult to do today as I have been crying over the situation between BF and his family pretty much all day. I think because we have been in more regular communication lately that the 'radio silence' between yesterday morning and today is paining my heart.

I totally agree with you, StillWidowed. My point is that we each have to identify what we can work with. None of us is any one another's space to truly grasp at what level becomes 'option'. What one of us identifies as feeling like the option might not be the same for another of us. Regardless of what that point is, the individual must decide and take best next steps for self-care. I guess I didn't get that across very clearly. Sorry.

So right, tybec -- it is not black and white. Interesting issue, dealing with one another's children. BF had a big (and I mean BIG) blowup with his daughter yesterday. I had gone over on Saturday and he had mentioned that there was something she had not been wanting to discuss with him about her sister/his estranged daughter. Left it at that and the evening went on. Daughter and her BF came in, she said hello sort of over her shoulder (side note -- I had given her a gift card for Christmas, which she got because BF put it under their tree since I did not see her that weekend. Not even a mumble of thank you ... I felt rather irritated by that. Even in his selfish sort of way, my son says thanks, even if it's through his care home mom) and that was it. We went on with our evening and as it got later, I prepared to leave since you need a permit to park in the development. He told me about a place just across the street where I could park and where other people park so I could stay, which I did. In the morning, all was well with my vehicle (no one else parked there that night and I get weird about that sort of thing!) and while we had coffee he offered to make a bit of breakfast if I could stay. I said I needed to dash because of my dogs (who had been inside all night alone and would need the bathroom) and to go to Sunday service. All was well with the dogs when I got home; by the time I got to church, BF and daughter had gone to war on social media. It was basically one post and her response, but he vanished for the rest of the day. In the first few months of our association I noticed that he would do that but it was never behind anything this volatile. I mean the things that caused it before were serious enough, but this ... I reached out but as of this post have heard nothing. I hope he at least went to work. My dear friend, who is so close that we call ourselves sisters, is on the same social media thread and sent him a private message, which she says he read but did not respond to, which is in its way a good sign. However, there will be a difficult conversation about letting folks know that he is ok, even if he doesn't want to talk. Such disappearances do not work well for me after the losses I have had. Here we go.

Good point, StillWidowed -- what you describe is not about the NG, it is about us. What are we willing to put up with? I think of a woman in my congregation who prayed for her husband for more than 50 years ... he did change his life. Granted, he was not negative in any way toward her in all that time but had some things going on that required divine intervention It took that amount of time for him to come to a place of change. When the story was told, the comment was when we think we are struggling to hang in there with something or someone after a month or two, think of the Biblical woman with the issue of blood (I think she went on for 12 years?) or this woman in the congregation who went on for more than 50 ... That's not to say that we should go on when we are essentially being neglected or abused.

Thanks for sharing, tybec. We all are lugging around our own baggage, aren't we. BF has been feeling extra hurt about his family not caring about him; he is estranged from siblings (weird parental dynamic from Mom, who is deceased) and one of his daughters and has been mulling it over quite a lot I am sure due to the holidays ... he's sort of an all-or-nothing sort so when things are bad, everything has a gray cloud over it. I occasionally want to push back about letting go and do, gently, via my own separate social media which I know he sees. I applaud you for not saying what was on your mind about how fortunate your NGs children are. I know I am not in a marriage position. I wouldn't mind sharing space and would entertain the conversation if it came up but even that will require more work on my part. There are things I need to accomplish and can't be involved in trying to mesh expectations under the same roof at the same time

Sounds like you developed good boundaries here, Virgo -- excellent for you!

Agreed, Toosoon: for those who have lost a spouse or significant partner, the learning comes not just from the loss itself but from being able to reflect on the time spent with that person. Good or bad, we take away something and can apply that knowledge of what we seek to the next thing. I volunteer nearly every weekend at a food ministry for those dealing with homelessness. One of my now-favorite attendees asked me last time about my NY resolutions; I told her I didn't have any, other than to be happy and to make others happy as well. She said her prayer for me this year was that I would get married. She seemed surprised when I said I am good with being in a committed relationship and I surprised myself when I said 'and I am in one' ... I guess it's been most recently that I've recognized I have something solid with my boyfriend (there's that word again. LOL) and it's okay that it's not what others think it should look like and that it doesn't look like anything I've experienced before.

Hey all -- not to abandon this conversation in the least, but as trying2 mentioned, some of our conversations are beyond budding. I started a new thread called 'Starting to Tread the Deeper Waters ...' to get into what it means to be working toward stronger commitments

Hi all! For the past several months I've been in a great discussion topic here on budding relationships -- the NG (new guy/new girl) thing is past the initial get to know you but hasn't reached a place of comfort enough to necessarily be what we'd call a full on relationship. Or something ;D Personally, I am sneaking up on two years with my NG (God willing it will be two years on Memorial Day 2018) and in December we got to a place of identifying as boyfriend and girlfriend. These are deeper waters for me for sure, having been married twice and widowed twice but not having much of a dating history (if you visit some of my other posts, more on that out there so I won't bore you here!). What is this space like in the relationship? What does 'fully committed' mean at this stage? I suppose it is different for all of us, where some expect marriage while others tick the fully committed box at moving in together, or even earlier? Rambling perhaps but I'm trying to learn to swim and appreciate each of you for your insight :-*

Agreed with other comments here, Virgo, even though I couldn't bring myself to do it lol. I have mentioned that I do a lot of reading about relationship stuff and one thing that keeps coming up is that 'it is not official until it is', meaning unless you and the other person have explicitly stated you are boyfriend and girlfriend, you aren't. As trying2 said though, it's not about keeping secret that you are seeing other people. Honesty is best -- saying that I am going places like movies and dinner with other people because we aren't exclusive is as honest as it gets and isn't wrong.

You know, I find the whole dating thing strange, from beginning to now ... I was horridly nervous when we got together and have my moments when I am still nervous. Well, maybe not nervous exactly, not sure what to call it. I plan to go with the flow though. I realize that the first marriage was such a disaster because it was rushed; I was young, stupid, and wanted to be loved and in a relationship so allowed myself to be blind to the horrible parts of the connection to that man. I am grateful that the web was still in its infancy back then -- had tinder existed, I might have found myself in dire straits of pain and even more stupidity My second marriage was good, a training ground to know what love could be. LH was a kind, thoughtful, funny, intelligent, caring, and patient man -- more than what my son and I deserved. I am grateful to have known and been loved by him and to have loved him. This thing is different yet; having met via an online site and the amount of things we can relate to each other on is so different overall. It's comfortable, nice, and I don't want to screw it up!

tybec -- good for you for getting it out there. Your post makes me think of a conversation I had with my cousin (actually, LHs cousin but she is more family than some of those who are 'really' related) yesterday: she called to tell me that she is not doing the BF/GF thing after all. Turns out she and he had too much of a difference in life philosophies to continue in that capacity. She said she talked to him and told him she could not be his GF, that at this point she had no intention of marrying him because their life stages were just too different (he is basically co-parenting his two -- of five total -- grandchildren almost full time and they are the youngest, one of whom has major issues ... she set a trash can on fire in the apartment and was happy about it...). When it is time to move on, it's just time to move on. BF came over on NYE; he commented that I had been away for a long time (five days, during which we still communicated in the game chat) and we lauged about that. We ate like hogs (I brought all sorts of goodies back from Mom's -- I had shipped myself a package because I can't get some of those foods in SoCal), played our game and watched movies, and were soundly asleep before midnight The next morning he said he didn't get a midnight kiss and I said that technically we did -- we just celebrated on east coast time because we were still awake then. Had a good laugh about that as well. He talked to my mom on NY morning and said to her that he was sorry to have taken her daughter back so soon (I did my best not to grin like a complete idiot but don't know if I succeeded). It was a nice morning and I sent him off with lots of leftovers. It was not the most romantic of get-togethers, but it was nice to spend time. I hope to get tickets to the comedy club we had gone to last year for this coming weekend. We'll see. On to 2018!

So sorry to hear Virgo. I hope you will pop in to let us know how you are. I got a call from my cousin today; she told me she decided her NG was better off as a friend. She had told him earlier in the day and wanted to let those of us who knew she and he were trying to grow a relationship that things had changed. She said there was too much drama with his lifestyle and different philosophies about life. So there it is.

Oh sugarbell ... {{{{hugs}}}}

Happy New Yr to all - I am at the airport awaiting my last leg of the trip home. I am glad I spent time with Mom. We are all getting older ... I saw one of my dearest friends (we have known each other for like 40 yrs) and LHs cousin and her boyfriend. She is more family to me than some actual relatives. Her BF was a very nice man. She was so tickled when I showed her the photo of me and NG together and when I said he was my BF. I kept up with my game play so he and I messaged during the week. Not sure if he will come over on Saturday or Sunday or both but we will see each other. My mom was happy and wants to meet him. I am sure she would enjoy feeding him as much as he would enjoy her cooking! I will be glad to get home and back into my routine though. Traveling is hard on the body!

Hey tybec - glad it went ... well? Sounds like you stood your ground and said what needed saying. That's a good thing. My mom was so excited to see BFs (I can say that now ) photo. She couldn't wait to ask me about how we met and all that. It was fun telling her the story. While we were out yesterday, she decided she wanted to mail him a 'thinking of you' card just because. She had me write in it that she was sorry he couldn't have come with me. Made me glad to see she was so accepting, not that I doubted it but good confirmation, you know? I popped into the online game we are playing and caught a bit of chat with one of our other team mates; BF and the guy were writing about relationships and he wrote that I was the most down to earth woman he's ever dated. Wow ... yay, me ;D I went shopping yesterday for all sorts of food items that I can't get at home. I told him I was bringing a bunch of stuff back that we can have at new year's so we'll see how that goes.

Happy Christmas (Kwanzaa, Solstice ...) everyone! I made it to my mom's safe and sound. It is funny how places look different after a time away. I got so turned around, trying to drive to her house from the airport ;D Fortunately the plane got it super-early so if I hadn't said I got lost, no one would have been the wiser! So, milestone: I went to NGs on Saturday, determined to get a photo for my mom (or I'd never live it down, even though I could and did show her other photos on his social media). I did the usual, texted to say I was parked, and he was outside when I got to the door. He asked me if I'd brought my computer and I laughed, patted the pocket in my bag, and said 'like you gotta ask?'. We set up our computers to play the game we are both in and I was commenting about it. He was making fun of how enamored with the graphics and effects I was and said, 'My girlfriend is such a gaming noob' -- I tried not to grin my face off that he said it. So now I know. I waited until the end of the night and before he walked me to the car I said we had to take a photo. He suggested we sit in front of his Christmas tree. It wasn't a huggy-kissy sort of photo, just us sitting next to each other. My mom said I looked like I was going to burst; I realized after I had this cheesy grin lol. Anyway, he wanted me to text him to let him know my travel progress and when I landed and texted him that, he told me to tell my mom Merry Christmas and whatnot. I am planning to take a photo with my mom and text it to him with the one we took together. He did tell me my gift was going to be belated and I had already said the holiday isn't about all that; I think once we've been through losses like those of us here have, it's more about spending each day, being happy, rather than all the material stuff. But I am curious about what he's going to come up with. He does have very good taste so we'll see!

Good for you, Needytoo. Much of the dating material I've read indicates that there is a fine line between being available and too available in the early stages of a 'relationship'. It is hard to tell when the line has been crossed! Being perceived as too unavailable, and a potentially good match gets creeped out. Being perceived as too available, and we might end up taken advantage of and hurt. Communication is key, as is doing what you did, Needy, in my opinion. Sharing that we love our NGs (if that's not too strong a word here) but that we can get along on our own is important.

So sorry, Needytoo. Remember -- we don't live in each other's heads. You are right -- he may think he is there for you because his concept of that may be different from yours. Calling and generally staying in touch might be his way of 'being there' while actually being there is yours ??? Nah, you aren't being a Grinch. Or maybe you are: the Grinch had a very big heart, after all. It may be prudent, if this connection is worth it, to wait until after the holidays to have a deeper conversation.

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} Needytoo. Question: does NG know that you are feeling sensitive right now? I mean, it is never easy to tell someone when we are vulnerable, but isn't that what relationship is all about? If you are unsure about him, then I get it about keeping such deep feelings to yourself. However, if you two have made some level of commitment to one another, it seems time to open up a bit? Yeah, it's his mom. If he had come to you beforehand and said he needed to do something for her but would love to meet up with you asap after, would you have been accepting of that? You might tell him. On the other hand, if you aren't sure but want to give him some sort of chance, pull back as you are. Do your thing. Call the company and have them pick up and repair your snow blower. Hell, rent a truck and have a neighbor help your wrestle it on. Whatever you need to do to handle your stuff. I think I mentioned my sedan that broke down last year? I needed to put it in my garage until I could get it repo'ed. I used my new (to me) vehicle to push it in there myself, rather than asking NG to help me. I am not ready to let him into my financial situation that deep yet. Like your NG, he has had the experience of being taken advantage of by ex's and I am not trying to push those buttons. I asked NG to look at my garage door opener, which he did. I also asked if he would put up a light for me on the garage; he hasn't (there are extenuating circumstances -- he would need his work truck but the company he works for now has gps on their vehicles and I live like 40 miles away from him so they would know lol), even though I bet I have what he would need to put it up. I am considering going out and putting it up myself today or tomorrow and not saying anything. I have an event coming in January and I plan to invite NG to it but suspect because of his work hours that he won't be able to come. And that's okay. I am going to go and be fabulous, then post pictures on social media We love, but we must live and be healthy as well.

daysofelijah I had to smile at your staying over because it is three hours away; in Southern California, a one-way drive of three hours is not unusual I once got stuck on the highway on my way home from work due to an accident and it took me over six hours to get home ... {{shudder}}

Know that there are those of us who understand, TooSoon2. It is imperative that the holidays -- every day -- be ours. No matter what that looks like. Those of us with children must do what is right by them. We also have to do what is right by ourselves. For those who are Christ-followers, remember what is written in the scriptures: our obligation to our late loved ones ends at death. We are freed from our commitment to them and are free to move forward. No guilt, no regret, as we keep living and loving.

Hi, Mark -- we were having related conversations over on the Budding Relationships thread. You are welcome there as well! How does your GF feel about meeting the LW's family? If she is up for it, why not? You two can discuss the implications and possibilities and decide from there. The problem as I see it is that our 'former' family members expect us to remain in stasis or they are shocked that we have moved on (especially if they have not). Such is typically the reaction from those who have not lost their DHs or DWs. Yes, your son should see his relatives if he desires. No, you shouldn't feel guilty if GF doesn't want to go but it will be problematic if she feels you should not go without her for the sake of your son. Much to consider all round ... {{{hugs}}}

klim -- it is good for you to have deep feelings about this. I love Portside's response about being open to the invitation. Maybe you can spend time with NG after you are with your children? Plan some time for just the two of you? I have mixed feelings about the holidays. First marriage took my enjoyment of Christmas, decorating, and all that. I learned to appreciate the day for more than that, to celebrate it internally, spiritually, as a survivor of abuse. My son didn't seem to care about the decorating but was interested in the gifts (at almost 23, he is almost the same way lol). Second husband loved Christmas but tempered his desire to decorate for me. In later years together, I did start putting up a wreath on the door (put it on today, in fact). It's just me and my dogs in the house, so no tree or lights. NG moved earlier this year and thinks he forgot their tree; he seemed sad about it but more so that it will be, as he described, a 'light' Christmas. Not sure if he means as far as how much he has to spend on gifts or that his daughter and granddaughter won't be around. Like you, trying2, I am not asking. I will take a small gift (I am thinking a gift card) for his daughter though. As an only child, I don't think much about whether I will have anyone to spend holidays with. As LH got sicker, holidays were like any other day -- how well will he feel, will he want to eat if I cook, will the gift make him feel any better. I enjoyed exchanging gifts with NG last year and will enjoy whatever time I spend with him this year. More importantly, I will enjoy time with my mom when I travel. It will be nice to have some time to myself, without chores around the house or job duties to attend for a few days. I would love to spend more time with NG but he will only be off on Christmas day since where he works isn't closed between then and New Year's. It will be what it is and I plan to enjoy it. I pray for safe travels to and from. Beyond that, I'm not thinking too hard. I pray that everyone, no matter how you spend it, has a wonderful holiday and look forward to your updates as you are able to pop in here. I will of course be traveling with one of my computers since I will have to check in and update attendance for my students and because I am quite deep in the online game NG got me into ;D

Needy -- I am glad for your NG that he gets his children for Christmas but my heart aches for you. I will be traveling starting on Christmas day so I have invited myself to NG's house on Saturday and have bought some of the supplies he needs to make this dish he's been bragging about for a couple months. I didn't ask him to make it but bought the stuff, texted a photo of it, and asked if it was enough for the recipe and what time I needed to be there for him to cook ;D It seems that some people have one-track minds. It isn't that they don't care about the other stuff going on or the people involved, but they are not capable of expending energy on more than one (potentially) emotionally involving thing at a time. Dealing with a crazy ex along with the desire to be with your children, coupled with a promise to care for a relative is a lot, especially around the holidays if your NG remembers the promise particularly at this time of year. He may not be able to contain all that along with wanting to make himself happy with you in the relationship. I hope that doesn't sound harsh? Maybe you can do something special with him before actual Christmas day or make plans to do something together after. Remember -- it's actually just a day. We can give and show the love of the Creator of the Universe every day {{{hugs}}}