Should I go gentle...

[Guest fleur]

I guess I am at a crossroads as to whether or not I belong on the new board.  As an expat, who had no access to English grief services or help when my husband died, I really don?t know what I would have done had I not found the board.  I was so isolated, it still hurts to think about it - I was my peer group's worst nightmare.  It took me a couple of months for me to find the board and even longer to post but it did become an essential lifeline for me.

 

I?ve not been a ?regular" poster in some time and most people don?t even know who I am anymore.  For a long time I haven't spoken out about much, I guess mostly because I don?t like to make waves and prefer to keep a bit private unless I am feeling weak.

But, I've realised that I don?t think its very healthy to keep everything inside anymore. To be honest, I have seen many people who were full on with their grief and able to openly express it make a lot of progress and as a result get to better place in a shorter amount of time.

 

Perhaps one of the biggest reasons that I still read the board is that I was widowed with young kids and they are still relatively young.  In fact, I?ve noticed that those that were widowed with young kids tend to hang out longer.  For me personally, I think it's because instead of being able to move on with ?my? life, I am still eating from the same sh%# sandwich with extra sauce.  My kids are now almost six years older but some of our problems have just gotten bigger with them and we all still carry the trauma scars of ?that? day.  My husband?s death was such a horrible shock - I still have flashbacks to that fateful morning and so do my kids. 

 

There a few things that are really bothering me and I have decided I am going to express them.  This might be my last post so why not right?

 

First off, I think I am not the only one who has revisited a lot of grief this past week.  Over time, the board had transitioned from being my lifeline to a touchstone.  Nevertheless, I have experienced a profound sense of loss over the closing the old board, all its history, and connection with so many people.  For the most part, I am speaking of people that now operate more behind the scenes rather than those shining bright in the limelight.  People that were there, over and over, people that have for the most part, gone on with their lives but were still connected.  And now, many of these people are for the most part just gone, ?POOF!?, the majority without even a hint of smoke and it bothers me.  All the care, kindness, and wisdom, just gone (okay, I?ll be honest I am not going to miss the meanies but they don?t deserve any of my head space).  There are a number of people that really paid their dues (and I will include myself in that group) and now its just about all gone.  I mean how many people even know where the new logo is from?  Its not new and there is a whole history that surrounds it!  So, the closing of the board really is a death of sorts.  Plus, going through old posts this past weekend brought all that raw hell back to the surface.  And NO, I really do not have time for this just now!!!  However, I now know that I am not the only one feeling stung.  I am incensed that the founders had so little regard for the board in the end, despite offers to take the damn thing over.  And I know the offers were there because I made one myself - before it was closed.  It just really pisses me off but I am going to have to get over it!  Ironically though, it was a bit funny though when BSK said something like, ?So now we know how long it takes to get over this shit... 14 Years."

 

Facebook.  There is no way that I am a Facebook girl and was adamant that I would not participate in any new board solution with a data mining platform - but ughh, I did actually express myself there last week -gosh I hate it when I do that!!!  Also, I certainly could not join a group (for profit or not - salaries are still being paid) that makes money off of vulnerable widow/ers who are grasping at just about anything to escape their personal hell.  I have to tell you, targeting and profiting from widow/ers is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.  There are certainly a few who have graduated from the original board quite early on who decided to make their new living's and build their client base's off of their fellow widow/ers.  Sadly, most people didn?t realise that they were part of a "great" plan.  I do strongly caution others, especially those early out to be a bit careful of Facebook friend requests and the ?Professional? widows.  I will also add that Bagos (it's the member?s themselves that make them happen just be smart and safe) are fantastic and pretty much free with the exception of your own personal consumer needs.  It will really make my blood boil to should I see some organisations promoted here, I sure hope I don?t.

 

I?m also not so sure how I feel about the great ?moderation? presence.  Whilst I do understand the occasional need, I don?t like the notion of it being omnipresent.  It seems to set a wee bit of a tone of hierarchy, big brother, and censorship, especially since these people are named.  Will people react differently when a moderator makes or responds to posts?  To me, moderation should be the exception rather than the rule and there were good reasons that YWBB turned to self-moderation, just ask AnnE.  To me, most of the problems at the old board got out of control because Admin had essentially abandoned ship.

 

Change, even for the good, is hard.  At this point I am deciding what to do but at least I have said my piece.  But do people even care to hear what I have to say?  Even when it goes against the grain?  Or perhaps it just might be best for my posting career to go gentle into that good night. 

[anniegirl]

Professional widows! LOL.

 

You go girl. I know exactly who you are talking about. I am friends with a few of them even (and yes, they know how I feel about it.)

 

Just my two cents?

 

I haven't posted publicly at the YWBB since 2008. I even deleted most of myself when I left. So I get completely what you mean when you talk about how disturbing the shut down has been.

 

I was a lurker and not that often but it's like "a great disturbance in the Force" the past couple of days.

 

And by the way, I do remember you.

 

Stay. I am. Til the transition is done.

 

This new place is good and it deserves a good start. A base for the history that it will one day have.

 

There are a few other "old folk" posting. Eventually this place will be up to speed and we go back to lurking, posting maybe or sending the occasional PM.

 

Leaving, to me, means that the professional widows win. The founders told us on FB to send folks to Soaring Spirits, a bastion of professional widowhood if there ever was one, and while those entities have a place, I prefer (and think) that organic sites like this one are really best. Where real connections are made and where even the darkest feelings can be shared - because you know someone else is going to say "yeah, me too."

 

Stay. Be a founder.

[marjoe]

Stay, Fleur - please. I rarely post any more either, but I get a lot from the collective wisdom here, and sometimes...sometimes - I can even give it. I think I know of which professional widow you speak of - friended her on FB and deleted her last year. I just didn't need to hear the "sparkly" crap anymore, you know? Marsha

[BrokenHeart2]

Very well said Fleur, I agree and do care to hear what you have to say.

Well stated "incensed about the founders having so little regard for the board at the end", me too.  And I guess we aren't adult enough to know the reasons. A tad arrogant if you ask me.

Anniegirl makes a good point, stay to be a founder. Well said AG!  Sure hope you stick around Fleur.

Hugs to you

[Ginger]

Fleur thank you for your thoughtful and honest post. I do care what you have to say. I am also a longtime member of the old board (over 11years) and have very similar feelings as you  do. 

 

Although my situation was different than yours, the board was a lifeline to me in the first few years. I too rarely post anymore but still find comfort in coming to the board to read or just to feel a connection with others that still "get it", even after this long a time.

 

When a fellow widow text me that the board was closing I thought, "no, that can't be right". When it was confirmed, it did feel like another devastating loss. All I could think of was all the people that had responded to my early posts and the overwhelming support and caring I felt from them. It is difficult to believe all that knowledge and caring wasn't going to be there anymore. It's not that I need to revisit that early time or other members' posts but just knowing it was there if I needed to was always a comfort. 

 

I am also disappointed in the way the closing of the board played out. I truly feel it could have been handled in a much better way, especially since they supposedly had been discussing it for a while. I feel like they took something good and reduced it in their minds as being irrelevant. I feel like their explanation on Facebook was cavalier and somewhat insensitive.  They have every right to close the board, but I would think they should have had some responsibility to help members transition to something else since the original goal of the board was to provide support for grieving spouses / SO's.

 

I am happy to see that there were people who stepped up in this time of crisis and gave their time and knowledge to get this new board up and running so quickly. Kudos to you. But as Fleur stated I truly hope that this board is mostly self moderated and that any moderating will be used only in the most extreme cases.

 

Thanks Fleur for posting. If you hadn't I probably wouldn't have put in my two cents concerning this. And even if you don't post I hope you do come to this new board just to have the sense of belonging to someplace that will always understand. And I do remember you also.

 

 

 

[RobFTC]

Fleur, it's good to see you here.  I get it.  I have drifted away from the board, and feel like most new member would not know me.  I also feel like the things I have tried to bring for others, the chat room and the bagos, are not very important to anyone else now, based on recent response.  I won't out-and-out leave, as on down days, I will still try to find this community.  But the reality is that my cohort has largely recoupled and drifted off, and I am just late to get the memo.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[Mancino]

I'll echo the 'should I stay or should I go' sentiment.  I too had been slowly drifting away from the board, just skimming it now and then to see what was up, mostly in the BAG and Social sections.  A lot of the people from my time period are gone; I'm not sure why I hung around so long...I guess I missed that same memo, Rob.  Since I don't post much,  I would bet most new folks wouldn't even know who I was (other than confusing my ID name with MacInCo -- glad to see he changed it to just Mac on here) 

 

When I got over the initial shock of how abruptly the board was shut down last week, I thought to myself that this would be a perfect time to just let it all go since I really don't 'need' the board any more.  That being said, it was a little comforting knowing that it was there if needed. So as you can see, my curiosity of a new board got the best of me.  Just when I thought I was out, it pulled me back in, lol.

 

Anyway fleur, it's good to see you here.  I remember you from back when I was a new kid on the widow block back in 2009.  I'll probably continue to hang around here a bit longer, just to see how things shake out here.

[Guest marian1953]

yeah?..a huge nod of acknowledgement to all of you. Feeling the exact damn sentiments.

Marian

[Guest Munsen]

I 'get' the angst you are feeling over the ending of YWBB and I admit that I am back here simply because of the news. I had also taken a leave of absence from the board due to the lack of admin oversight and had grown to feel like the negatives were outweighing the good. Some of that was also a growing sense that I needed to 'return to the real world' and it was time to let my cyber-world slide.

 

I?m also not so sure how I feel about the great ?moderation? presence.  Whilst I do understand the occasional need, I don?t like the notion of it being omnipresent.  It seems to set a wee bit of a tone of hierarchy, big brother, and censorship, especially since these people are named.  Will people react differently when a moderator makes or responds to posts?  To me, moderation should be the exception rather than the rule and there were good reasons that YWBB turned to self-moderation, just ask AnnE.  To me, most of the problems at the old board got out of control because Admin had essentially abandoned ship.

 

I agree with this. I did feel that much of the old problems were because the Admins had stopped responding to concerns when things did get heated. I understand Moderators to help ease the burdens of the Admins but I wonder if making them anonymous would make it better or worse. Not only for us but for them as well. I can only imagine how hard it will be for all to ride herd on so many people from different belief, backgrounds, worldviews, etc. When does bias repress free speech? I have heard people say that people shouldn't be allowed to say offensive things but what is offensive to one may not be offensive to the next. Its not always an easy demarcation to make.

 

I'll echo the 'should I stay or should I go' sentiment.  I too had been slowly drifting away from the board, just skimming it now and then to see what was up, mostly in the BAG and Social sections.  A lot of the people from my time period are gone; I'm not sure why I hung around so long...I guess I missed that same memo, Rob.  Since I don't post much,  I would bet most new folks wouldn't even know who I was (other than confusing my ID name with MacInCo -- glad to see he changed it to just Mac on here) 

 

When I got over the initial shock of how abruptly the board was shut down last week, I thought to myself that this would be a perfect time to just let it all go since I really don't 'need' the board any more.  That being said, it was a little comforting knowing that it was there if needed. So as you can see, my curiosity of a new board got the best of me.  Just when I thought I was out, it pulled me back in, lol.

 

Anyway fleur, it's good to see you here.  I remember you from back when I was a new kid on the widow block back in 2009.  I'll probably continue to hang around here a bit longer, just to see how things shake out here.

 

 

Once again, while I was typing, Mancino came along and said it much better than me. The same identical thoughts have been mulling in my head. Should I stay away or return to the fold. Read but not post or go back to avoiding the place. I have no answer for you but wanted to let you know I had read and understood what you were saying. Plus, I remember your posts and the help I found within your words. Thank you.

[iisrbleu]

I stopped posting on the old board for many reasons - mainly the drama.

I feel this new board is clean slate and I am glad you are part of it and sharing your feelings and insights.

 

I vote you stay.

[kmouse]

Fleur, this vet was just having some similar wonderings on my drive home.

 

I stopped really belonging months, if not a few years, ago. I don't post enough to be a valued, recognizable member any more and I feel like my thoughts aren't the ones that would be heard or of interest these days anyway. At this point emotionally, I can't even work up much more than a resigned regret that the board that was instrumental in putting me back together and that was the mechanism for meeting the second love of my life (and friends I love dearly) has gone away, although I sure wish it had been handled differently. <-Understatement. I probably should be more outraged to fit in with current feelings about everything, but instead I feel a deep sadness that I'm trying my best to deal with.

 

I don't know. The depths have been plumbed, but the troublesome grief cards from my personal deck keep coming up. I tend to just hold them to my chest now and wonder why I'm six years out and still have cards in the deck to deal with. But like you said, even though YWBB wasn't a lifeline anymore, it was a touchstone when I needed to at least read the words of people who understood the sh%^ sandwich.  We're part of a generation that was beginning to have valued veteran status over at YWBB, but in the transition I feel like we'll quickly be relegated to the forgotten generation because we aren't the pillars of before or the sassy newbies of now. Where do people like us belong? Are we still valuable to this new board? Can this new incarnation be a touchstone for us?

 

I really like anniegirl's and a couple others' thoughts of sticking around at least long enough for this board to take flight and sustain. Some will depend on how we're treated (some excellent points on the pros and cons of moderation) and the tone. As I continue to rebuild I need encouragement/reality/perspective/hope, and I've often found much resonance from the words of veterans and it's those vets that have kept me coming back, to read if nothing else. I hope people like you both stick around as much as is healthy and right for you. Your words may not come often publicly, but when they do they have resonance.

 

I don't know. Part of me wants to saddle up my unicorn and ride it down the road.

 

Long story short, I can't understand the flavor of your particular sh$t sandwich, but I sure get having the sandwich in hand. I hope continued healing for you and your kiddos.

 

K

 

P.S. Complete agreement about the site logo.We've got the t-shirts. Literally. Dammit.

 

 

[BrokenHeart2]

Since I'm only 21 months out I really hope you all stick around especially because we are losing the history of YWBB and your valuable input will be appreciated even if it's only now and again. (kind of like corporate memory but of the human widow(er) way

I remember in my early months going back to the early days years before I joined and reading the old posts. Somehow gave me comfort to see the progress of those posting before me.

I hope that make sense.

 

PS: more than just comfort but hope and inspiration as well. We need you old time wids 

[lcoxwell]

As a widow, who just hit the one year anniversary today, I dearly hope that you all will continue to be a part of this community.  I have often taken comfort from the wisdom of veteran widow(er)s.  Your willingness to share your stories and your experiences has often given me hope, when I needed it, and allowed me to feel that I wasn't a complete lunatic, when I thought my world had fallen apart and no one could possibly understand.

 

I realize that time moves on, and that some of you may no longer feel the need to post often, but when you do, there are some of us, who are truly listening and holding onto your words, like a lifeline.

[SimiRed]

Fleur... I remember you too   I'm also almost six years out and stopped posting on the old board.  However, I did lurk.. cause like kmouse says, "I still have cards in the deck to deal with."

 

Stick around, your words mean a lot!  It's the integrity that you carry in what you say, it's respected and valued.

 

 

[Wheelerswife]

Okay, my $0.02.

 

When I joined the board in October of 2009, there was a presence of older and wiser wids that had endured the angst and gained some greater insight into life beyond the initial couple years of widowhood.  That was an amazing asset to the board that frankly has been missing for the last - oh, couple of years, at least.  Perhaps it is because social media allows people to connect here and leave the board for a different pasture or perhaps it is because people's lives change and they don't "need" this board anymore.

 

The reality is...the BOARD needs those wids to hang around and for them to be willing to impart their wisdom in well-thought out posts about a variety of topics that would be of general interest and HOPE to newer widows.  So that means we need fleur and Ginger and RobFTC and SimiRed and kmouse and mokie and others, too, to remain a part of this new board. 

 

Pretty please?

 

Maureen

 

 

[kpgct]

Ah, Fleur, I remember you, too! And I share your dilemma.

 

Like you, I don't read or post much any more, and I'm far more likely to send a PM than share in the open forum. Yet when BSK shared the news that the board was shutting down, I felt bereft, disoriented, and sad.

 

I've always thought of YWBB as a place, a virtual geographic space where I can go to find kindred souls, peers, my peeps; it's my 'hood . It made an enormous difference in how I grieved and what I imagined was possible in the future.  I'm incredibly grateful for the wisdom and kindness that people have shared. I can't quite wrap my head around the thought that the record of that will be lost. And I'm with those who believe that a better solution should have been, and could have been, sought by the board.

 

Scrolling through my history last weekend, figuring out what to save and what to abandon, was awful. Connecting again with those early, so fragile days, dredged up all sorts of painful feelings. And yet the signs of progress and growth were clear. I'd been a member of the board for almost 7 years; in that time I finished graduate school, started a new career, and found (and lost) a new love. My son went from elementary school to college. I lost one of my dearest friends to suicide. And the members of the board bore witness; shared in my sadness, tolerated my confusion, and applauded my success. Some of my closest friendships started there.

 

A lot of old grief got recycled last weekend, but the news that some of our members pulled a rabbit out of the hat, that there were people with the skill and resources and willingness to create a new forum...wow! What an amazing thing! The wisdom, the resilience, the incredible kindness...here it is again! And people are recreating a whole new community of supportive... empathic... welcoming ... and sometimes irritatingly contentious and utterly human, kindred souls. How cool is that?!?

 

Maybe those of us from a previous era, those of us who benefitted from what those before us shared, have a new role to play. If we step away now, even more of that collective knowledge gets lost...and that, I think, would be a terrible legacy. So I think I'm back, and here to stay - at least for a while - and hoping to help nurture another safe and sheltering space.

 

[kmouse]

A lot of old grief got recycled last weekend, but the news that some of our members pulled a rabbit out of the hat, that there were people with the skill and resources and willingness to create a new forum...wow! What an amazing thing! The wisdom, the resilience, the incredible kindness...here it is again! And people are recreating a whole new community of supportive... empathic... welcoming ... and sometimes irritatingly contentious and utterly human, kindred souls. How cool is that?!?

 

Maybe those of us from a previous era, those of us who benefitted from what those before us shared, have a new role to play. If we step away now, even more of that collective knowledge gets lost...and that, I think, would be a terrible legacy. So I think I'm back, and here to stay - at least for a while - and hoping to help nurture another safe and sheltering space.

 

Absolutely fantastic words.

[MissingSquish]

I'd miss you lots fleur if you left, because when else could we meetup in NYC on a clear summer night?  Sending you love and strength.

[Jess]

I hope no one minds if I add a few things here.

 

First and foremost, the single biggest thing of value to me when I joined YWBB was seeing the people that had made it years through this journey. People that could say it gets better that were speaking from actual, tangible experience and not platitudes from people in my every day life that had not been through what I am going through. From the veterans, I gained the gift of hope. From that gift of hope, I gained optimism. I cannot think of a better gift to receive as a newly widowed person than those things and I have absolutely no way of providing that to anyone that comes here. That has been stripped away and that sucks more than I have the words to express. So, is there a point to posting and do veteran members have value? You better believe it. I am hopeful many of you that know way better than I do stick around, at least for a little while if your heart is not in it, to give the rest of us hope. My bigger hope is that maybe a chance to inspire people new to the journey and connect with some long lost names that have come back up will get your heart into it and that you will feel part of the community many of you founded, perpetuated, and ensured flourished for people like me to find even years after your journey began. From day one of my YWBB experience, you have all unknowingly been my mentors. Thank you.

 

As for moderation, the approach is designed to be hands off but stepping in when blatant abuse, threats, etc. exist. On YWBB, I remember certain times members were being publicly harassed and people were begging for them to be banned but there was nothing anyone could do but beg for an admin to do something and instead simply end up waiting for the troll to get bored. That does not make make people feel safe nor comfortable, and the goal is to have a safe community, not a censored community. The primary role of the moderator through the transition is to get parts of the board rolling and be there to answer questions and bring concerns to our attention if they are voiced. I have no interest whatsoever in being the thought police. This group has had years of experience being self-moderated and 99.99999% of the time it worked out great. The problem was that there was no recourse whatsoever for that .00001%, and those were the times that caused people to feel unsafe. The admins cannot be here every day, so knowing who to get a hold of during that .00001% is important.

 

Is this system the one that will stay in place? Honestly, I have no idea. This board is going to adapt with the needs of the community it serves. Otherwise, what is the point and why bother? The only reason I am an admin is I had the unique qualification of being willing to damn the torpedoes and do something quickly, some may call that stupidity. That qualification is less and less relevant as the community does what it does best- supports itself. I am utterly amazed and impressed at how everyone has pulled together. It would be mind blowing if I didn't already know what a widow(er) can do.

 

Jess

[cmf]

I wondered the same thing. Is this the opportunity to go? The board shut down on Friday and it was my birthday on Sunday so it almost seemed like a good transition time, but then I felt out of sorts and sad, and then so happy when I learned of the first new board, and more so with this second new board as it does seem really nice. And it is also so nice to see familiar names of those a bit further along than me. I've had an exhausting day so my thoughts aren't as coherent now, but I did want to say something, and will be back in the days/weeks to come.

 

All the best to everyone.

 

cmf

[lovedroses]

I remember you, fleur.  And kmouse, and mokie and eeyore and wifeless and andyscandy and so many others.  I never posted much even in the beginning of this mess 5 years ago, but I came to the board almost everyday.  I've just been lurking for the last couple of years, but the kindness and the support from the 'vets' (if I can use that term) were so important to my sanity in the early going.

 

I was surprised at how the abrupt closing of ywbb affected me - it hurt physically.  Anyway, my $0.02 would encourage all those wise ones from those earlier start up days to stick around and help get this board off to a good start.  A lot has been lost in the last few days, but it can be rebuilt I think.

[canadiangirl]

Fleur and others, please stay.  I am only 15 months out.  Selfishly, I think I am game again to try to support those newer in this journey but I really need those veterans like you who help me look ahead, maintain focus.  It's like we're monkeys in a chain - I am happy to pull those further down the chain but who's going to pull me up?    Please stay.  At least to get us over this transition hump.

 

 

 

[anniegirl]

I'm hanging about for a while. I feel quite strongly about this board getting off the ground.

 

But those of you who are newer, do me this favour?

 

Remember that you know you best. Feel free to take what you can relate to, what fits you and your life, needs, values and hopes and no more. Honour yourself always because your gut (like mine was) is probably your best guide most of the time anyway.

 

 

 

[Guest AC]

This transition will effect each of us in unique ways. We each need to find our path. I agree that time will tell, at least for me. I don't really have much to say but this - I would be personally deeply saddened if the people who are wavering decide not to stay. You have each touched my life and my heart deeply. I will understand if you go, but don't ever, not for one moment, think no one will notice or you won't be missed.

[Guest littlebirdie]

I really hope you all stick around. You have so much to offer us. I recognize every one of you (does that mean I'm here way too much?  ;D).

 

Kmouse, I am especially happy to see you pop back in. I hope you know how much it meant when you reached out to me after I had my first dust-up on the board. I like hearing from you.

 

I understand that life moves on and you might not need to be here as much, but each one of you would leave a unique void if you went away from this place forever.