DonnaP Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Help! My son has been working in the accounting field for the past three years. He HATES his job. And I think it shows. A month ago, he was put on probation for not meeting expectations. Since that time, he has really tried to put forth the extra effort. His boss said he noticed he is trying but said "he is 'still not there yet'" so he could not lift the probation status. THEN, my son gets an email from the same supervisor saying that he now has 30 days to show improvement or "separation may occur." It sounds to me like they are trying to force him out. He is wondering whether he should just quit, rather than stay and risk getting fired. Which is worse? Does anyone have any experience in this area??? He is so beside himself, he called employee assistance today to talk to a counselor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amor Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 This is my opinion only I do not know his situation. I would start looking for a job. Pay all the bills you can and reduce expenses. Talk to your boss if you want the job to be able to meet the requirements and feel what the bosses attitude is. If you feel they do not want to work with him or he does/ can not meet the demands, give your 2 weeks or 1 month notice (depending on work). Give this notice in writing. If you hate a job find a new one. It is not good to be somewhere most of your life and hating it. Wishing a good job that he loves! Amor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missmybecky Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 This happened to me, with the first job I had out of college. Honestly, he should expect that he will be terminated. I got the same, not meeting expectations report at my first review. I was blown away and it was totally unexpected. I was given 30 days to correct my "poor performance" and I worked my ass off during those 30 days and ended up getting fired anyway. I think they wanted to get rid of me for personal reasons, I was warned much earlier that they were a tight group and that it was hard to fit in with them. I was out of work for 2 months but ended up at a place that I love and I have been here for 9 years this month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Thanks! Missmybecky, how did you address the subject of why you left your previous job when potential employers asked? And, did you get any compensation when you got fired? What about your health insurance coverage? I'm just worried that the job market is still poor. And he has bills to pay (rent, insurance, cell phone). Luckily, his other debt is pretty low. If only we could be sure he would land another job soon... Any advice for how to go about the job search? Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pammy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I would also quit. My husband has fired several over the years and this is ALWAYS, without fail the way they present it. (unless there is some reason that the worker must be fired immediately) In my opinion, based on how my husband (following the requirements of his large company) approaches this, the writing is on the wall. There is likely nothing substantial to warrant a termination now, so they have to start a paper trail and it begins with warnings - written and verbal, probation's and then time-frames for "meeting the companies expectations." Short of a miracle, this will likely end in termination. He has a blessing here as it will likely not just come out of the blue - he has time to prepare. He needs to use this time to be proactive and, like someone mentioned, pay off bills, save, and actively look for another job. He shouldn't tip his hand that he is looking for a job. In fact if it were me, I would put on my best Oscar award winning face and make everyone think I love working for them and am doing everything I can to get back into good graces. He needs to take the upper hand and work towards the goal of quitting (I would aim for the day before my probation is up) and then telling them what a bunch of wankers they are. JMHO. I hate these corporate games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpico Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 How will unemployment work out if he quits versus being fired? I was terminated 3 years, 8 months, and 19 days ago (not bitter, lol) without any sort of notice or previous write-ups and even at the termination meeting I wasn't given a reason. Anywho, they told me that if I resigned immediately they wouldn't fight me getting unemployment benefits but if they termed me they reserved the right to fight it. I ended up letting them term me because a resignation (with severance) would have had some non-compete strings involved, and I got a new (and better) job within a month, but had I been worried about another job I would have thought long and hard about taking the severance and then unemployment. On the bright side, this will likely turn out for the best for him, but I know that's not an easy thing to hear when you are going through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missmybecky Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Thanks! Missmybecky, how did you address the subject of why you left your previous job when potential employers asked? And, did you get any compensation when you got fired? What about your health insurance coverage? I'm just worried that the job market is still poor. And he has bills to pay (rent, insurance, cell phone). Luckily, his other debt is pretty low. If only we could be sure he would land another job soon... Any advice for how to go about the job search? Donna It was a long time ago, so I don't remember exactly how I handled that in interviews, being honest without disclosing more than you are asked is probably the best approach. I had been with that company less than a year and received no compensation from them and was not eligible for benefits other that COBRA for health insurance which I declined ($$$). Becky was working back then and we didn't yet have kids, so it was a lean couple of months but we got past it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelerswife Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Donna, Perhaps if he decides to resign, he can tell future employers that he recognized the need to change the situation, but job searching was a full time job itself and he needed the time to dedicate to finding something more suitable to his interests and skills. That way, it gives the appearance of working toward something more compatible and creates the assumption that he was searching for something, but needed the time to devote to the search process. Hugs, Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManutesGirl Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's ok to say that you recognized it wasn't the right fit and decided it was best to devote your time to finding something that fits both yours and the company you work for goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 ok - thanks - this is all very helpful. More info - he HAS been job hunting. He does not want to just get into another position like the one he has now, because he feels he will be equally unhappy there. He wants a total change, but needs some direction. He feels if he were not stuck working, he could devote more time to the search. Of course, this is a Catch 22, as most of us know - it is actually easier to get hired if you are currently employed. But, given the circumstances, I think he will eventually have to resign. I like the suggestions about how to explain why he left his current position... that could be very helpful. He has been searching online job sites and sending out resumes. I'm helping him with "thoughtful" cover letters. It's just that the job market is flooded right now with qualified applicants. We need to find a way to make his application stand apart from all the others... SO stressful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 They sound determined to terminate him ~ does he have any accrued vacation or sick time? He should take every minute he has accrued. Speaking to the benefits adviser with the notifications he has received is a good start ... sounds like weasel words to reduce staff and not pay benefits to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonesuch Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 "if I resigned immediately they wouldn't fight me getting unemployment benefits but if they termed me they reserved the right to fight it." This sound suspicious. It may vary state by state, but in my state, if you voluntarily leave, you don't qualify for unemployment. One can be disqualified for misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealoha Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Please give the exit interview careful consideration. If he is honest there is little to gain. I have not seen any changes internally from an exit interview that pointed out constructively things that could be improved. And the repercussions in the field down the line could be substantial if the wrong people are involved. I would suggest using another venue to vent. Use the exit interview to demonstrate he is the bigger person. Hth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trying2breathe Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Agree with Kealoha, don't burn any bridges. One never knows when you'll come across these people again, maybe in a future position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captains wife Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I was fired from my first job out of college - at the time it seemed like such a big deal. But you know what ? I went on to much better and bigger jobs so it all worked out. Honestly, it was one of the best things that happened to me as I ended up working in London. I told the employers that I was interviewing with that it was a combination of the company downsizing (true) plus also it wasn't a good fit (true too). The issue with getting fired vs. quitting comes down to money in a lot of ways - if he was terminated, they would likely have to pay him a severance (depending on his contract) and he could qualify for unemployment. Its also easier to find a job when you have a job. When things are unpleasant, its very tempting to quit but that lets his company off the hook in a lot of ways. These days there is less stigma when we are let go from our jobs given the economic climate. But he should make sure he does have a good contact at his current firm and plays nice with HR so he can get a decent reference when he does land a new job. Does your son have an idea of what he would like to do outside of accounting ? Can he get into a field where he can use his accounting background but not be an accountant ?Its a long slog in that career if he doesn't enjoy it at all. Make sure he is on LinkedIn as a lot of recruiters look at that website. He should start talking to headhunters. Can he network with people he know to explore other career options (this helps a lot I think)? I found the book "What Color is Your Parachute?" a great insightful book - an oldie but goodie. Its hard to apply for jobs and sound convincing if he isn't sure what he wants to do and he needs to formulate a good story if he wants to change careers. Wishing him all the best - that can be a tough time, career wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Thanks for all the wonderful advice. It helps a LOT to know that this isn't the end of the world -- even though, to my son, it feels that way. He feels like a big loser, even though I keep telling him he is not! He does not have any saved vacation or sick time, as he has used it all. And 30 days is not really enough time to pay off all his debt (he has student loans that I'm helping him with), but we will do what we can. I told him he always has the option to move home for a while to save money instead of paying rent. I hope he is using his time wisely. Finding a new job can take some time, unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarbell Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 In my experience..if you voluntarily quit..you don't receive any unemployment. If you are terminated (or laid off)--depending on the reason for termination...USUALLY they have to pay unemployment. Most companies want you to voluntarily quit rather than termination so they don't have to pay the unemployment. I was laid off about 15 years ago from a pharmaceutical company due to downsizing. It was unexpected..but I received unemployment compensation until I got hired by another drug company. It was no problem getting compensated. Last year -I worked in marketing/development for a small private company that was unable to get the business off the ground in my city (they were trying to have a branch here and the market was horrible. They had not done the research needed before starting a new business and it went belly up within 8 months. They wanted all of us (5 of us ) to quit. We refused. I made the President tell me face to face (with a witness) that I was terminated. They did not want to pay the unemployment..but were forced to. I collected full unemployment (I had only been with them for 8 months..but had 3 years employment with my previous company)--I just rode out the 6 months unemployment and had a great summer with my kids. Don't voluntarily quit. My experience unless you are doing something illegal and that's the reason for termination-they pretty much have to pay you the benefits. At least here in WV they do. If they refuse you can appeal (but I have never had that happen ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpico Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lots of good unemployment information here: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefits-contesting-employees-claim-30348.html It certainly sounds like your son would receive unemployment absent any serious misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmsmdm Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was lucky enough to survive an objective to eliminate 25% of our work force!! I came dangerously close to getting the ax, and for no good reason, had great productivity results, and excellent attendance!!!! All advice I was given was do not quit!!! If you quit or resign, you are not eligible for unemployment!!!! I agree with everyone else in that he should start looking elsewhere while he is still employed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda5 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I also wouldn't quit. I'd let them terminate me so I could get unemployment. He can always say he was let go due to downsizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 It's becoming real... he is getting ready to give his resignation on Monday. That is just one week from the "date of separation" if he waited out his probation period. From what I've read and heard, he can still collect unemployment if he resigns in lieu of being let go. If anyone knows anything more on this, I'm all ears... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonesuch Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I would have him call the unemployment office, seriously. If he resigns I suspect he will not be eligible for unemployment. If he is fired, unless it's for cause (sexual harassment, corporate intrigue, taking a contract out on the boss) he can still collect. No matter what they say NOW, they could lie later and say "Meh. [shrugging shoulders] He quit." Being fired isn't the end of the world. If you haven't been fired, you really aren't trying to expand your abilities. I've been fired a couple times. I didn't TRY to get fired, but from time to time I have managed to get a job that was beyond my abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarbell Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Please don't let him resign....make them terminate him. If he's not terminated in writing...make sure a witness is present. The company under these circumstances wants him to resign...they terminate him-He will get unemployment. He resigns-in my experience it's doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpico Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 ^^^ There are other considerations than unemployment, though. Getting another job will likely be easier if you can honestly tell an interviewer that you resigned instead of were fired from your last job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 ^^^ There are other considerations than unemployment, though. Getting another job will likely be easier if you can honestly tell an interviewer that you resigned instead of were fired from your last job. Yes. That is our biggest consideration. He does not want to have to lie on job applications and he does not want to have to admit and then explain why he was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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