For those in budding relationships ...

[momtokam]

Ms here too. Mrs doesn't seem right anymore, especially if I am trying to date. To me Mrs says still married and I'm not. I teach also and I go by Ms. I feel it's more ambiguous  and no one needs to know what my martial status is.

I also mark widowed if the option exists. It's what I am.

[Trying]

I check widowed because that is what I am, and I don't like when it's not an option.  I still go by Mrs. because my last name is DH's lastname.  Very early on my mom (who is also a widow) sent me a card addressed to Ms. This led to a big discussion between us.  She prefers Ms. and for me it feels like a punch in the stomach. 

 

In September I will become "married" again and  "Mrs." will be easy but the last name will be more difficult.  I'm having trouble thinking about giving up my children's last name even though I will proudly take on finance's last name.

[Guest TooSoon]

tybec -- I used to say that I'd only make people I didn't like have to call me Dr.; the rest could use it if they liked I answer the phone with it when there's a telemarketer on the line! Ha!

 

I used to be embarrassed when people referred to me as Dr.  Not anymore!  The only time I never use it is in making airline reservations - because I am emphatically NOT that kind of Dr.  I agree - you earned it! 

 

And my daughter and I are keeping our name (I got remarried the week before last).  It's both personal and professional.  That I even took my husband's name was a surprise to many people but it did move me from the very the bottom to the very top of the alphabet which has its perks after 35 years with a Z last name! 

[arneal]

Thanks all! The name thing is very interesting as well. I gave up my maiden and as time went on, I wished I hadn't. I took my first husband's name, which is my son's last name. When I got remarried, I hyphenated. If God would have it that I marry again, I have imagined that I would abbreviate the two hyphenated names in place of a middle name or initial.

[tybec]

NG and I passed a year last weekend.  Been talking long term since Dec.  NG told me Sunday he would marry me, but not legally.  His ex is likely narcissistic.  He is a retired 20 yr. vet.  My LH was a vet.  I have veterans' benefits I will lose if I remarry.  He states he does not want to comingle our finances with a legal marriage /contract as he is concerned about this and his divorce situation.  I want to protect my son's benefits.  I told him to talk to his pastor and he did Monday and the pastor said no he could not.  My friend, a pastor's wife, said her husband would not either, but she wasn't sure of the details as to why.  He is a senior community pastor and is asked by widowed elderly folks who do not want or cannot lose their late spouse's pensions, etc. if they marry again. So, long engagement, 11 yrs. 2 months to when his youngest turns 18?  This makes me sad.  My LH did not plan or be a vet to stop me from moving forward if he died.  Yet here I am.  Read a blog of a police officer's widow.  Same boat.  Can't remarry or lose her husband's death benefits she received after his demise on the job.  Who knew?  I want to share what I have, but the benefits tied is a lot to risk losing or to give up.  :-[

[arneal]

Oh tybec. So sorry. Maybe a Unitarian pastor? You could look online in your area as well. I think there is another ordination that is real but nondenominational that a number of folks have gotten in order to preside over gay marriages. Just a thought.

[daysofelijah]

I can see why a pastor would not be able to do a "non-legal" marriage. They might see it as trying to cheat the system, or double dip or something? Idk, that's my thought. Still not sure on the marrying thing either. It sucks to have to think about losing dh's survivor's benefits, the insurance benefits, etc. I get if NG and I do marry.

 

I would love to just live together for a couple, few years, if he gives me a ring first, lol. But my parents would probably die of a heart attack or disown me if I went that way. They're pretty traditional, religious types. I guess it would be their loss though if they chose to be so selfish as to do that.

[arneal]

The benefit of marrying someone with nothing ... my LH had been retired because of health for quite a few years prior to dying. We'd had to stop paying life insurance for him a while ago, but when he ended up in hospital in 2015, I got a policy again. It was enough to cremate him. The property, cars, and all that have always been in just my name. I am trying to rebuild my finances and get on a more solid footing so I am a better catch LOL.

 

I lived with both my husbands before marriage. The first time, my mom, who is quite traditional, nearly had a cow. She wasn't thrilled the second time around either, but has stopped trying to convince me to live life the way she thinks I should after realizing that I haven't done so bad in the big picture.

 

I'd like to marry again if that's in the cards. I enjoy sharing my life with someone and think I am a good partner.

[calimom]

NG and I passed a year last weekend.  Been talking long term since Dec.  NG told me Sunday he would marry me, but not legally.  His ex is likely narcissistic.  He is a retired 20 yr. vet.  My LH was a vet.  I have veterans' benefits I will lose if I remarry.  He states he does not want to comingle our finances with a legal marriage /contract as he is concerned about this and his divorce situation.  I want to protect my son's benefits.  I told him to talk to his pastor and he did Monday and the pastor said no he could not.  My friend, a pastor's wife, said her husband would not either, but she wasn't sure of the details as to why.  He is a senior community pastor and is asked by widowed elderly folks who do not want or cannot lose their late spouse's pensions, etc. if they marry again. So, long engagement, 11 yrs. 2 months to when his youngest turns 18?  This makes me sad.  My LH did not plan or be a vet to stop me from moving forward if he died.  Yet here I am.  Read a blog of a police officer's widow.  Same boat.  Can't remarry or lose her husband's death benefits she received after his demise on the job.  Who knew?  I want to share what I have, but the benefits tied is a lot to risk losing or to give up.  :-[

 

Getting married, but not legally, sounds mildly insane.

 

Marriage laws vary state by state, but it seems like any even borderline ethical clergy person would likely not "marry" a couple and not file the certificate. Please understand that your child's benefits from your late husband would remain intact, but most institutions (Social Security, VA, pensions) would eliminate the spousal portion.

 

Your options would be:

 

1) Live together in delicious, delicious sin. Who cares who society and your church think? You could still get the Gubmint Cheese.

 

2) Marry legally. This might require scaling back and downsizing and getting a job on your part. Not easy if you're a spouse who's never worked or hasn't been employed for a long time. But there would likely be economies by joining households. Maybe  NG could step up to the plate a bit.

 

As they say, you can have anything, but you just can't have everything. Pick what works best.

 

3) Keep the status quo. What's wrong with that?

[arneal]

calimom -- it depends on the denomination and purpose of the ceremony. For some, the financial aspects are not the issue, it's the commitment. In some religions, there are cultural ceremonies and the legal (with a certificate, by a priest, pastor, rabbi, imam, or municipal officiant) is separate. LH and I used to worship at a church that had many members who were born in various West African nations; they nearly always had two ceremonies -- the cultural one and then one at the court house. Some didn't do the one with the license.

[trying2breathe]

tybec  Sorry to hear this- sigh.  Sadly I know several in the same predicament, choosing to live together with plans of a possible marriage sometime in the future. 

 

Although I'm grateful to have continuing medical insurance thru DH's old company, it would lapse if I ever marry again.  It just doesn't seem right.

 

 

[tybec]

From my NG:  It will all work out. 

 

We will marry but the when is not scheduled.  I want a Christian marriage, and I didn't think much about a legal contract which is what the government has you do. Ask a divorced person what happens when they divorce and the courts are involved.  There is nothing loving about all that, just business.  I was only 21 for my  first marriage, with nothing but hope and dreams.  21 years of marriage later, and all washed out in the end.  Never thought about the legal versus religious aspect being separate. Too young to understand.  But I do now.  Isn't that how it is supposed to be?  Separation of church and state? 

 

It will all work out, even if I am mildly insane 

[arneal]

Another junior high moment today. A neighbor-friend asked me if I would mind feeding her dogs for a few days at the end of the month while her family go on a short vacation; my cars are broken down and she has been more than caring to me (carrying me to the market, refusing to take any gas money), so of course I said yes. Also, her one dog is the brother to my boy pup and I am determined to make friends with him since he is my doggie nephew lol. We were supposed to meet up this morning so I could feed them while she is home. NG was over last night and we were outside, enjoying the weather after coffee this morning when my neighbor drove by. She stopped and said I could come down when she got back from taking her daughter to choir practice; some time ago, another neighbor came walking by with her dog. I stepped out to say hi (more to pet the dog) and as I did, that neighbor looked me up and down and said loudly, 'Boy, you are looking sexy today!' I was totally mortified as NG was in earshot and as such, I didn't introduce them. Fast forward to today and I made a quick intro (since my friend was in her car at the curb) and then explained who she was to NG when she pulled off. I immediately thought of the first neighbor and it was all I could do to not giggle.

[tybec]

 

Not sure if this will come up, but Arneal, I couldn't get this song out of my head after reading your post!  My 13 yr. old son is mortified I played it.  But thanks for lightening up the thread!  Get your sexy back!  :

[arneal]

Thanks tybec! That was great -- made me laugh out loud. Here's another one to bring smiles:

 

Itchy palms and sweaty feet! Ha!

[Forgottenwife]

NG and I passed a year last weekend.  Been talking long term since Dec.  NG told me Sunday he would marry me, but not legally.  His ex is likely narcissistic.  He is a retired 20 yr. vet.  My LH was a vet.  I have veterans' benefits I will lose if I remarry.  He states he does not want to comingle our finances with a legal marriage /contract as he is concerned about this and his divorce situation.  I want to protect my son's benefits.  I told him to talk to his pastor and he did Monday and the pastor said no he could not.  My friend, a pastor's wife, said her husband would not either, but she wasn't sure of the details as to why.  He is a senior community pastor and is asked by widowed elderly folks who do not want or cannot lose their late spouse's pensions, etc. if they marry again. So, long engagement, 11 yrs. 2 months to when his youngest turns 18?  This makes me sad.  My LH did not plan or be a vet to stop me from moving forward if he died.  Yet here I am.  Read a blog of a police officer's widow.  Same boat.  Can't remarry or lose her husband's death benefits she received after his demise on the job.  Who knew?  I want to share what I have, but the benefits tied is a lot to risk losing or to give up.  :-[

 

This is a tricky situation. Although our hearts may want a legal marriage, it may be in your best interests not to marry legally. I consulted a lawyer who laid out all the options regarding pensions and benefits if I re-married or did not, it was money well spent. If you do marry, and your new husband returns to court for any reason with his ex, your income will be included as total household income. This includes any ss benefit for your son. I don't necessarily think this is fair, just telling you what I was advised and unfortunately witnessed in a friends divorce.

 

I'm cohabitating with someone that isn't interested in legal marriage too - as hard as that is to hear, it turns out to be in my best interests legally in some ways. I know there are people that are saying we are cheating the government or whatever, I completely disagree. There isn't any reason we shouldn't look our for the best interests of our child and ourselves.

[serpico]

Who cares who society and your church think?

 

I can think of plenty of people who care what their church thinks. It's certainly a fair consideration.

[arneal]

Forgotten - it all comes down to location as well. My son's ss was not considered when LHs ex went through all her changes. But you make a great point. Serpico - I had church folks clicking their tongues at me when I was living with each husband before marriage. It was quite satisfying, truth be told, to see their faces after we had gotten married

[calimom]

Who cares who society and your church think?

 

I can think of plenty of people who care what their church thinks. It's certainly a fair consideration.

 

Point taken, and certainly some families and churches are less than flexible when hearing the news that two adults are living together. Still, a straightforward announcement of such seems like a better path than going  through with a church wedding which then goes unrecorded.

 

The US seems pretty strict about legal weddings. Other cultures, as Arneal noted, have different traditions. Italy, also, has a civil and religious weddings, where (I think) couples can do one or the other, or both.

 

There can be some absolute economic benefits to being married. My mother was widowed at a relatively young age, and married a widower after 14 years. My mom had it together financially but post marriage was in a far better medical plan, and would receive her second husbands pension if he predeceases her. So there's that, plus taxes and insurance that can favor the married.

[Guest oneoftwo]

FYI- Some jurisdictions recognize 'de facto' or 'common law' marriages as legal unions.

 

[Guest wecouldbeheros]

 

I can think of plenty of people who care what their church thinks. It's certainly a fair consideration.

 

Never did care what others ever thought, they wanted me to change my religion, although my Daughter did it, not for me.

[arneal]

A bit of levity:

 

I've shared that my son (who will be 22 this month) lives in a semi-independent home since he is on the autism spectrum. I told him I was dating toward the end of last year; he doesn't keep in touch much but since it's his birthday month he wanted to troll for gifts lol. Anyway, he asked me how NG was doing. I said he was good. Son says, 'Tell him I am praying for him'. All I could do was laugh when I hung up the phone!

[MrsDan]

 

Getting married, but not legally, sounds mildly insane.

 

Marriage laws vary state by state, but it seems like any even borderline ethical clergy person would likely not "marry" a couple and not file the certificate.

 

I don't see how this is unethical at all. If they consider marriage a spiritual pact, a sacrament, then what does that have to do with the government?

 

 

1) Live together in delicious, delicious sin. Who cares who society and your church think? You could still get the Gubmint Cheese.

 

2) Marry legally. This might require scaling back and downsizing and getting a job on your part. Not easy if you're a spouse who's never worked or hasn't been employed for a long time. But there would likely be economies by joining households. Maybe  NG could step up to the plate a bit.

 

These comments imply that there is laziness involved. I don't think it's a matter of either her or new guy stepping up to the plate. Tybec's husband made a sacrifice in serving - he gave his time and efforts at personal risk. As his wife, she paid into that account too. Her posts regularly state how important her spirituality is to her. Her husband earned that money; it was his, and now it's hers. I don't see why she should have to sacrifice what is rightfully hers to practice her faith. There is no reason to believe that NG is not able or willing to contribute fairly to their combined household. It's an unfair accusation, and what's more it has no bearing on whether she is entitled to money her husband earned.

 

My husband did not have a pension that was structured this way; I received a payout of his retirement. My boyfriend and I have not discussed marriage too much, but you can bet if it made more financial sense to stay unmarried legally that is what we would do. I work full time so I don't collect Dan's SS. It just wouldn't be enough, and I need to keep my career momentum going; I wouldn't just be able to jump back in when DD turns 16. But if I did, I would absolutely stay unmarried to keep it. That is his money. He earned it. However there may come a time when we decide to make a more emotional, or spiritual if you will, commitment. I don't see an issue with keeping that outside of the government's purview. That's not cheating the system in my opinion. It's our business. If people can have open marriages and still be entitled to spousal rights, surviving spouses should keep theirs regardless of their spiritual decisions. And frankly, considering how the government spends it's (our) money, they can afford to pay the widow of a man who served his country what he earned regardless of her spiritual decisions.

[MR]

Hi Tybec,

Sorry to hear about the situation. Is it possible for you to marry in another state or country or islands. This might help in getting legally married and also keeping your benefits. Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks

Manoj

[trying2breathe]

Quiet here - hope that everybody's budding relationships are going well and may be beginning to blossom. 

 

 

When I started getting serious about dating - intentionally giving effort in finding somebody - I began to experience some pretty significant grief episodes.  Not like the early dark days, but a general feeling of being really down, having crying spells, and being super sensitive about things that normally don't bother me. 

 

 

Has anybody else dealt with this?  There's not yet anybody that I'm seeing seriously, but NG that I see on occasion is getting the brunt of some of my funky moods and I feel badly about it.