For those in budding relationships ...

[arneal]

Thanks for sharing, tybec. Finances are a real thing and no, I don't think you're being juvenile at all. In the readings I've done, the one thing that has stood out is the notion that men tend to be a bit more concrete thinking than women. For a simple example, if you send a text but don't ask a question, you might not get a response because you've offered a statement that he might not read as needing an answer. Not to speak for your NG but maybe he doesn't spend like that now because 1) he looks back and sees the spending on the ex as something done in wasteful youth, 2) you don't come across as wanting any of that, 3) you don't seem to need him to spend as validation of how he feels about you. None of which are bad things.

 

Your comment about love language is perfect I think! How do you drop hints about maybe wanting a little pampering? It's not easy, especially if you aren't used to asking or talking about wanting things. I think I shared this story but it might be worth repeating here. Last year, NG and I got on a slightly competitive kick. It was silly things, like we awarded each other random 'points' for things. He posted something on social media about 'points for whoever knows XYZ'. I jumped on with a reply and he said I got it, to which I replied that I was drafting my list of desired prizes. That started it. By the time he was ready to travel for his job, I felt I had racked up quite a few points; when he said he had to drive through Tucson, I said he could feel free to bring me some Hopi jewelry I showed him the Hopi necklace I got a few years back when I was there. He did go through Tucson but bought a Zuni necklace and matching earrings in New Mexico. I didn't think he'd really bring anything but he did

 

Neither of us has a lot. His ex screwed him on their taxes and he's paying that back. The job has sometime lower hours. I am rebuilding my whole life after being widowed from a marriage to a retired musician who left here with no assets. Heck, I get excited when NG pays for dinner lol!

[tybec]

Thanks for the info. & support, Arneal.  That is so thoughtful he got you the necklace and earrings!  Sweet.

 

Yup, just paying for dinner is a great gift.  A bottle of wine even if we are just at his place watching a movie.  He walks with me anytime I ask, after dinner.  That is great!  I almost wish I didn't know about his gifts for his ex.  But sharing is learning.

 

I want the Emergency Contact. I want the person who will meet me at the doctor's office if I need support.  I want a warmed up soup if I feel sick.  I want to go watch and listen to live music somewhere, often free at a park.  I want someone who will offer to do a honey do that I can't manage myself, which seems to be getting more and more. 

 

I want a bouquet of flowers from the grocery store for 10 bucks for no reason at all.  I don't want all the expensive things, as I know they don't comfort you in the long run.  I want time as I know it is not guaranteed.  I guess it is all about more communication, time to build the relationship.  And maybe I won't ask so many questions! 

[trying2breathe]

 

I want the Emergency Contact. I want the person who will meet me at the doctor's office if I need support.  I want a warmed up soup if I feel sick.  I want to go watch and listen to live music somewhere, often free at a park.  I want someone who will offer to do a honey do that I can't manage myself, which seems to be getting more and more. 

 

I want a bouquet of flowers from the grocery store for 10 bucks for no reason at all.  I don't want all the expensive things, as I know they don't comfort you in the long run.  I want time as I know it is not guaranteed.  I guess it is all about more communication, time to build the relationship.  And maybe I won't ask so many questions! 

 

Yup, all of this. ^^^ Hit the nail on the head, tybec. 

 

 

Can you share this with him? 

[daysofelijah]

Divorce sure seems to leave people in the financial pit. That's where my NG is too. He also spent a lot of money, or maybe more turned a blind eye to her spending in order to keep the peace. We had a serious conversation yesterday about getting married and my concerns about his financial debt. I came right out and said what happens if you die in 10 years and I get left with all your debt? That question kind of took him aback, but that is my reality. I can't just blindly run into a life with him without plans to protect my financial future for me and for my kids.

 

I can see feeling a little bit of "resentment?" (maybe not the exact right word) for the way your NG used to buy stuff for his x, but maybe he wasn't even doing it to show he loved her, he was maybe just doing it to keep the peace and not out of love. That's how I look at NG's past.

 

It took NG forever to buy me flowers, over a year for sure, and I even got to the point where I asked for them and he balked at it saying he'd do it when he felt ready, not when he "had" to. I think he got "bullied" or guilted into buying stuff for the x, and didn't want that to be the case with us. Now he does it more often, but he is broke and I know he can't afford a lot. He tries hard in other ways though, fixes stuff for me at my house, loans me stuff from his work all the time (tables for garage sale, free rug doctor for the weekend, etc.). He has my move all set up with moving trailers and friends of his to help with the furniture, and is all excited planning projects to fix my new house up with me. It's learning his love language like you said. He helps, gives his time and uses the resources he has, and meets my needs that way.

 

I like to buy him stuff, his favorite mints or candy bars, pick him up a pair of jeans or a loaf of bread that he needs. He was uncomfortable with that at first, didn't like me buying him stuff. But he's learning that I like to do that for him, to show him I love him. It's working, but I had to re-evaluate what love means to me, he doesn't/can't show me love by buying me stuff.

 

Sorry I'm rambling, lol.

[arneal]

daysofelijah -- you hit it with the divorce thing. I think people get tainted. It's not just divorce -- I was certainly tainted by my first marriage because of abuse. LH was tainted because of the financial thing and the way his ex treated him after they separated and divorced. NG is tainted because of feeling swindled by his ex, emotionally and financially. I was over there on Saturday and he mentioned that he got his stuff back from her; she was holding his personal items (I mean things as 'petty' as pillows and blankets ...) and finally gave them back. He had forgotten about all the stuff. His daughter got the items from her and told him that even at that moment, the ex was trying to get the daughter to side with her against her dad -- mind you, this woman is not his kid's mom! How do people even do that?!

 

Anyway, I don't push but hint from time to time. I make sure if we are going out that I have $$ and can offer to pick up the tab or just come outright and suggest that we do something and pay for it. At this age, I figure we need to split costs as neither of us has a real discretionary cash laying about. So far it's been good and when neither of us has it go out, one or the other of us has something to thaw and cook lol!

 

Like you, tybec, I'd like to have that feeling of support in more emotional yet tangible ways. I think often about emergency contact ... I don't have one. But the most personal 'favor' I've asked has been to drive me to the airport Let's see how things go when we've passed the one year mark at the end of May  ;D

[Captains wife]

Agreed divorce leaves men/people is a bad place all around. I feel bad when I see men financially destroyed by their marriage - personally, I've always stood on my own two feet financially. It's very important to me. Daysofelijah- my late husband had a lot of debt when we married and that concerned me. But I didn't take on any of his debt when he passsed away as I kept our finances seperate including filing seperate taxes. Agreed - that support and affection can be shown in many other ways besides lavish/gifts and dinners. Honestly it's the thoughtful gestures that really matter. I am not big on splitting bills but I do pick up the dinner or outing tab on many occasions - feel it is the right thing to do as partners. I'm also mindful of how expensive divorce is!

[arneal]

Captainswife -- you bring up a great point about splitting bills. NG and I have never done that. It's been he pays or I pay and we try to be balanced about it. We've been honest -- neither of us has been ashamed to say we don't have any $$. In those cases, we'll sit at his place or mine and watch movies and cook. It's real life, as it should be.

 

The first husband tainted me from intermingling funds and my second husband had the whole ex and child support thing when we got together. Even after that was resolved, he was fine with me putting the big items like the house and vehicles exclusively in my name. It certainly made things simple when he died because he basically had no assets to divide or squabble over. As a musician and with retired with health problems, there wasn't going to be much anyway. Only a few years did we file taxes together, which was actually for my benefit I appreciate him and the things he taught me in our 16 years together more than I could ever say.

[arneal]

Quick update

 

So I shared the quandary about asking NG to pick me up at the airport. It went well. He drove me there last Sunday and picked me up yesterday. This sort of piggy-backs on the $$ discussion; he shared that he to his surprise his check got garnished (short version: he knew the ex had done some shady stuff on his taxes and got a lawyer. He paid the lawyer and was under the impression that with the lawyer's assistance he would make payment arrangements so his check wouldn't get garnished. Something went awry and he's mad as a hornet -- gave a lot to the lawyer for what, so while he's working that out, he's short on cash) but asked if I wanted to stop and eat on the way from the airport. It was rush hour so getting off the road for a bit was a good idea. We stopped for burgers -- he paid. It was Cinqo de Mayo, so tequila was in order. He bought some. I offered to do dinner and a movie tonight if the contract payment I was expecting was in my waiting mail, which it was, so we'll do that tonight.

 

Long story short: I am glad I asked him to pick me up as it was nice to have somebody there. I appreciate that he would spend what he had, even with the difficulty.

 

How's everyone else doing out there in junior high land?  ;D

[tybec]

Getting real!  Put house on the market this week!  Telling people we are moving.  DS is emotional, up and down about moving.  Honestly, I am, too.  My home of 22 yrs, house of almost 17.  I am going to truly end my world of DH and me.  No one will know him where I am moving.  33 yrs. as  US.  So strange. 

 

AND, a friend of mine, a former youth pastor that worked with my DH is an ordained Southern Baptist minister.  I knew he was Baptist.  Well, he is no longer in a role of a minister, as no church would allow him due to his views with women and gays.  I attended his surprise 50th last year, and it was at his sister's home with her wife.  So, I just thought he would be open to marrying without the legal requirements.  AND HE IS!  I called him this week.  He loved my husband, and loves God, and struggled with so many things over the past few years since he left ministry.  But he heard my story, knows me and is willing.  How about that!  So, time will tell on this.

 

First, sell house, move and adapt to new town, figure out my new career choices, and then pursue us further.  A year sooner than we talked, so no hurry.  Just get there and play it out.  WOW!

[arneal]

tybec -- your post just brought tears to me. I am over the moon happy for you. If I could have given your post 100 hearts I would have.

 

I was just on a post from a newbie here. She was asking about when is too soon to date. And then I come here and read your post. I just said goodbye to NG about 20 minutes ago as he left my house. The world is so different for all of us, isn't it? Moment by moment, the changes add up and we move forward down the path of time. I pray for joy, love, and happiness for us all ...

[trying2breathe]

Happy for you, tybec!  Here's to getting real 

[arneal]

Hey guys and dolls -- advice needed!

 

So NG shared a story from his past in a moment of complete openness and vulnerability this morning. Something had happened that sparked the memory and I believe he needed validation. I replied in a way at the time that I felt was compassionate and empathetic, but am feeling now that I need to follow up at some point. If not today, maybe later in the week. I want to show support, to let him know that this is a safe space and that I hold what he says with respect and in confidence.

 

My question then is this: would saying something (even without mentioning the story) seem appropriate? I'm thinking a short text just to show I genuinely care about his overall well-being? I welcome your thoughts here.

[Trying]

How about a simple text saying something like "trust and openness are such an important part of any relationship, I'm so glad I have found that with you".

[arneal]

I like that, Trying. He seems to get sensitive about things of the heart being made verbal I think I can sneak it in somewhere along the way this week.

[trying2breathe]

I like Trying's text - seems completely appropriate to mention him being open and vulnerable with you.  And it may keep the door open for him to continue in this way .....

[trying2breathe]

Would appreciate some thoughts on this - I'm having a dilemma with my "NG", he's not aware yet that I have a problem with this.

 

Back story - been seeing him for a little over 3 months, we see each other 3-4 times a week.  I'm dating others and he knows this, he wants an exclusive relationship and I've let him know I can't commit to that right now but he's willing to wait.  I have a great time with him, we have much in common and never have a lack of anything to say.  I've been on the fence on whether or not to just date him, wanting to get to know him more.

 

What happened yesterday might be a deal breaker.  We attended a music festival, lots of people, chaotic scene standing shoulder to shoulder trying to enjoy different bands.  I was fine, didn't feel uncomfortable being there, but he apparently didn't feel the same and got mean. To the point of yelling at others and almost getting into several fistfights.  I felt so out of place, was embarrassed by his behavior and apologetic to those around us.

 

I'm not sure if we can work through this, or if this is something that I should even bring up with him.  If this is his character, it isn't something that I think could be easily changed.  Should I mention to him that I was uncomfortable with his aggressive behavior?  I'm so turned off by his behavior that I'm not sure if I want to have a conversation with him about it.  If I break things off with him he will want to know why.

 

Any thoughts?

[arneal]

trying2breathe -- having had an abusive situation with the first marriage, my radar went up first on your post. But taking a step back, I would be inclined to have a conversation if you've never seen this behavior in any other public situation. Some people do not do well in crowds; does he seem uncomfortable, like in the mall or a crowded restaurant or bar? Or do you and he mostly spend time alone so you wouldn't see how he is with others? Might he have been having a bad day?

 

Nonetheless, if he is looking to be exclusive, I would not let him off the hook by not talking about it, even if you aren't interested fully in being exclusive with him. One of the things the dating advice shares is that when we are trying to build relationship, not calling foul on crappy behavior gets us less respect from the one who's acting up. If you aren't sure about his behavior, go to a restaurant and make that your time together; don't go back home with him or have him back to your place. Talk over dinner. Bring it up as casual -- "Hey, I wanted to ask you about something I noticed. It seemed that something was going on when we were at the concert the other night." See what he says. If he seems oblivious: "Frankly, you were nasty -- yelling at the people around us. I didn't get it. The place was crowded and we were all crammed in there. I couldn't figure out why you were so mad. I haven't seen that side of you and honestly didn't like it much because [say why it made you uncomfortable]." And leave it there. Make sure you have $ to pay for your meal and transportation home and if you don't like the answer, roll on out.

[Guest nonesuch]

When I married LH, I was under the impression that my income absolutely could not be used as a basis for his child support, but YMMV.

 

When I was widowed, I stayed 'married' on Facebook for months.  Then for some months I had no status listed at all. 

 

I did occasionally post about good/bad/silly dates.  I finally tightened up my privacy settings as I was getting weird come-ons from allegedly new widowers.  I posted "In a relationship" after New Beau and I had been together five or six months, I think.

 

I stayed single until the age of 60, which will allow me to claim LH's social security if I choose.  I was casting about the internet the other day, and found out that my state is one that will require a spouse to make good on medical bills not covered my insurance.  This can be true, I guess, even if you don't live in a community property state.  On the other hand, your unmarried partner will pay taxes on anything he/she inherits from you. 

 

I can certainly understand a man or woman of the cloth refusing to perform a wedding ceremony when no wedding is taking place.  My goofy thought is to hire a discreet local actor, pay him/her for his time to perform a ceremony, and be done with it.  Almost anyone get ordained online, so if this person isn't your pastor/priestess/whatever, [shrug] "our friend who just got ordained" would be a satisfactory explanation.  Obviously, it's not as meaningful as your own pastor.

 

Odd and true story:  a friend of mine got married a couple years ago.  She'd been married before, and just wanted a low key something with a notary.  Her fiance to be said, no, let's make it a big deal.  She approached her own minister. He had real problems with her fiance's religious doctrine.  Wouldn't perform the ceremony.  They approach his priest.  Happy to do it, her deceased husband wasn't a bar to marriage, but the second marriage ended in divorce, so she'd need to get that one annulled. They had a nice wedding, performed by a notary.

 

Trying2breathe, I'd be seeing red flags waving when someone gets into fights at a fun event.

 

http://time.com/money/3492304/social-security-older-marriage-hurt-benefits/

[arneal]

Hi all: found this interesting article. Thoughts?

http://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2016/10/12-reasons-why-old-souls-have-such-a-hard-time-finding-love/

[trying2breathe]

 

arneal  This article resonates, many of the points given apply to me.  I believe that widowhood thrusts us into old soul territory.  Before widowhood, my life was lighter, opportunities seemed limitless and there was a lot less baggage.  As a widow, I well understand the fragility of life, the importance of finding the right connection and not wasting time.  I know myself better than ever and if given the chance to have a Chapter 2, intend to do it right.

[trying2breathe]

Update on NG - at dinner last night, had a difficult conversation discussing his aggressive behavior at the concert.  He was concerned, listened and asked questions, and was apologetic.  He told me that he was protective, something that I understand as it was a chaotic scene at the concert.  He said that it won't happen again, I believe him.  I'm cautiously optimistic ...... sigh

[arneal]

trying2 -- so glad you had the conversation and love that you are cautiously optimistic!

 

Personality is a weird thing. I shared last year sometime that I don't believe in astrology but from a psychological perspective (my masters is in counseling education) I am fascinated by personality traits and how they sometimes align with the star chart NG is a Cancer and I can totally see many of those traits, even though he has said he thinks it's simple to see whatever traits you want when reading such. There are things that he might say or do that make me take a deep breath; for example, the charts say that when a Cancer is hurt, he or she will dwell and stew on it and can be vindictive. I can see that. However, the chart also says they do it because under that hard shell (Cancer the crab) they are very tender-hearted. I see that too. What I've noticed over the last few months is that he will ask questions about the things that pain him more than he did when we first met. I think he takes all advice and chews on it, rather than responding to each piece with agreement or disagreement. It's interesting to watch. The biggest issue for him is when he feels disrespected, which in my readings about dating and how to build relationships is sometimes a huge issue.

 

You mention that your NG said he is protective -- that's a big deal as well from what I read. Some men are that way and how they express it might come across as 'caveman-ish' but they don't mean harm to you or yours. Hopefully that's all it is and you all can move forward because he will be mindful of how he expresses that side of himself!

[klim]

Arneal , somebody that thinks through things before responding sounds like a person that can be very reasonable...always a good sign in a partner...rash decisions can lead to trouble sometimes.

 

So I wanted to share a development from this past week.....I accepted some help 

 

I have a  second car that I only drive in the summer. I got it going about 2 weeks ago....but I was finding it slipping alot on rainy days. I took a quick look at the tires to see if I needed new ones and thought they looked Ok.....but was slipping so much that I asked NG to take a look. He said I should switch them.

 

The next time he came to pick me up he asked me if I'd got them done and when I said no he said he was going to it right then and there before we went out. ........and I accepted.

 

So I have my new set of tires on and thank goodness I do because the old ones were like slicks on the inner edge!.....I hate car maintenance...one of the practical things I miss about DH.

 

 

 

 

[arneal]

Fabulous, klim! It does feel weird to ask for help sometimes but I think it's good when we do -- in your case, definitely! I had to laugh about asking NG to take me to the airport last week. He was in the midst of his move and all so I felt bad about it; I told him I would text him around 9am to confirm ... I puttered around and when I got out of the shower at 9:15 he had already texted me to say he was leaving his house in like 10 minutes. On the return, I knew it would be rush hour, so I felt bad again about asking him to come get me after a long day's work. I texted on Thursday to confirm he was still good to pick me up and he came back right away to say yes. I had settled in to get some work done on Friday before my return flight and he texted me to ask what time I was due in and what airline; I told him and said I'd text when we were on the ground. He was there and waiting for me when the plane landed. I felt pretty okay about asking, even though I had backup arrangements if needed so I wouldn't sound desperate (including driving myself and using a Groupon for parking, asking one of the folks in the area that drives for Lyft, and my neighbor friend who said she would take me and/or pick me up) lol.

[trying2breathe]

klim  Yay on new tires and that NG helped you with this!  Now that he's offered, maybe asking for help will be a bit less awkward next time?  I rarely ask for anything, go overboard in helping others but hesitate in asking for help for myself.  Friends have mentioned that I have much credit but rarely make a withdrawal.  To me it feels better to not feel indebted to others, not sure why this is.

 

 

arneal  Funny that you mention astrology.  I tend to not be a believer in astrology, nor is NG altho we talked about how we're both Scorpios and how this might affect the relationship.  Had to laugh too about some men being "caveman-ish", we've had a conversation on his protective nature and caveman-like tendencies.  And I'm huge on airport runs, glad it's working out for you!