arneal

Thanks, Bunny -- I totally get that! I keep my distance and have times where I expect to not be bothered LOL. However, in this particular case, I guess I expect (there's that horrid word ...) that if we are moving closer, I would get a pinch more consideration when he disappears. I found out along with everyone else via social media that he was having a struggle. Like trying2 said, I need to get clear on where the line is as I do not want to offend by crossing it.

Thanks so much, trying2. I texted him some information from the essential oils video I was watching last night and said I had some of them and they might be helpful. He texted me back this morning to say he was struggling with that issue from the weekend and then some added job issues, so it sounds like he's really feeling it. He's off from work tomorrow so I might see him later today or sometime tomorrow ... am sort of nervous about exactly what I want to say but I'm working on it. Been doing things around the house so am going to practice in the shower lol!

Happy Monday, all! Am thinking of throwing a comment out to NG about solitary versus partner space ... or whatever I should call it. Usually one or the other of us reaches out on the weekend to see what we might do together. I had been reaching out for the past couple weeks and after last weekend was feeling bad about it since he's keeping such a hard schedule during the week of getting up at 3:30 in the morning. I decided I wasn't going to say anything and leave it to him if he wanted to do something. I didn't hear from him on Saturday and then on Sunday he posted publicly that he had been in a bit of a depression about some things. Several of us left encouraging comments, which he acknowledged late in the day. I also sent a text later to offer more private encouragement, which he did not reply to. So here's where I am -- and this will take many dips and turns! I am an introvert so I get the need for solitude. However, I feel like in times like this, when he's feeling distress, he cuts everyone out. Part of me says that if we are in a 'relationship', a response to a quick text or even an initial message to let me know in basic that he needs to be alone would be a good thing. Another part of me says that the cutting off of everyone is how he's always functioned and because of people in his life generally, he's not thought through why it should be different with me. I am just wanting to make clear the roadmap of expectations here by letting him know that it would help me to know how to be supportive. Am I being overly sensitive? Am I on the right track? Has anyone else been in similar straits?

Sorry Virgo Any chance of going to a meet and greet or doing a speed dating event, just to see what it's got to offer?

SW -- I am so sorry to hear of your loss. In this time since the passing of your beloved, I am sure you have taken time to (as the saying goes) 'do you' ... learn new ways to navigate the world as a single person, gain or regain hobbies, develop a schedule. It is in those spaces where we begin to blossom again. My pastor is on a series right now and he talks about growth; when we plant seeds, we don't get the harvest right then and there -- sometimes, depending on the crop, it can take years for the first sprouts to push through the earth. Trust that you may be that seed that takes time to grow, but when you do, wow. That's from someone who, like a bull in a china shop, is only a year and a half out but has taken on the universe. I am an only child and so have been used to doing things the way I see fit for nearly 50 years and having been widowed twice has not changed that Look up, my friend -- there is beauty out there. Know that you are getting hugs and are lifted to the Light in this place.

Totally get that, Needy -- smiling from ear to ear for you!

Just saw this poll, so I hope the conversation continues as I'd love to know how everyone is doing. nonesuch -- I love your word 'consort' When I jumped into the deep end of this online dating thing, I had absolutely no clue what it was all about. I did not do my due diligence but quickly learned to swim with the sharks after getting bit by that first troll; fortunately nothing terrible happened but it made me wake up to the reality that dating had become a very different thing that it had been back before I met the first husband. And based on him, even though online dating did not exist, I should have known better but as was said, if we came from a decent thing, it's hard to recognize the crap sometimes. After that troll incident, I set my standards as very specific: someone close enough that we could meet in short order for coffee or something at least. If he wasn't willing to do that, bye. NG and I messaged on the dating site for the first day or so; let me tell you, I wasn't going to send any messages to him even though I loved his profile and his photos. It took me taking a breath and stepping back from it to look objectively at the 'competition' -- in this case, there were a few comments on the photos like 'Hi' or 'Cute photo'. No substance. Based on his profile, I took him to be a man of substance. So I selected the photo I liked best, which was of him in some sort of vehicle, and asked the question, 'What are you driving?' It got his attention and he responded. I 'liked' his profile finally and he responded by 'liking' mine. We started the messaging thing and then traded numbers on like day one or two. He called me the same day that I gave my # and we talked for about an hour, made arrangements to meet in two days. We met as planned and talked for like four hours while we ate lunch. That was a year and a couple months ago now and I hope we keep growing together

Love2: I don't think quicker progression is typical to any gender. After watching my LH suffer for nearly 17 years with congestive heart failure (three pacemaker/defibrillator replacements: the first one was faulty and shocked him about six times unnecessarily -- that's no joke to watch or experience -- the second one because the battery was run out, and the last because there was a broken lead, which meant replacing all the wiring to the heart and once they were in there they put in a totally different unit because the hospital no longer dealt with the manufacturer of the previous two because of defects), survive prostate cancer, have all the prep for dialysis, and come back from being intubated in ICU and then die suddenly nearly a year after the ICU thing, I was moving on in a couple months. I had mourned all that time, for the pain and discomfort he had handled with such grace, knowing there was nothing I could do except be there. He told me he didn't want me to sit around by myself and when it sunk in that he was really gone, what could I do? I remember sitting at the mortuary, waiting for his ashes, wondering how heavy the box would be because he was 6'2" and around 200lb when he died ... I walked slowly to the car, holding the box and looked in it once I was in the car and truly realized he was elsewhere. He was a very practical man and if I had the opportunity to talk to him, I imagine he would cheer me on for listening to him and doing what he said for a change This journey is so different for each of us, there is no telling how or when we will continue down the Path of Life ...

Ain't that the truth, trying2! Actually we both have a pretty sharp wit and 'get' each other's humor. I think he just isn't good at expressing the nuances of intimacy in this way? Not sure how to say that better. Something funny happened this weekend though. My friend down the street is a Lularoe rep; she just made a year in business and was having a celebration. I told her that I probably wouldn't make it because NG and I were trying to get together on Saturday. She of course said, 'Bring him!' I asked her about the menu, shared it with him and got no real response. I had a new top I had bought from her and she showed me how to wear it like a halter, so I was hoping I looked as smashing as she thought I did lol. Saturday arrives and we start talking about what we're going to see at the movies and what we're going to do for food. I again mention my friend and he's not too enthused. We decide to get something at one of the places right in the same complex as the theatre (I think it was because he wanted to pay since for the last few times I've been the one paying; he can be sensitive about that sort of thing, wants it to be equitable if not more that he pays). I agree but say I need to go and let her know we aren't coming. I drive down and he waits in the car -- I am glad we didn't stay because it was I think all women except for my friend's husband (I used to hate to do that to LH, have him sitting there with no men folk to talk about while the women sit around and be women ... ugh. In this case, her husband works the Lula business with her so he probably would have been in and out of the house, working the deals). Before we had left my house, NG had stood back, looked at my top and said, 'That is nice!' He's made comments in the past about something I was wearing but that was the first time he had been so directly expressive about it. You know how some men will tell their wives, girlfriends, signif's that they are pretty or sexy? He's not that type. So I took this as very high praise! Anyway, I go back to the car and my friend comes with me because she wants to meet NG. He rolls down the car window, she shakes his hand, and says, 'I have heard so much about you' (and I'm dying that she said it -- so junior high). He doesn't miss a beat and replies, 'And I have heard so much about your dogs' (this is the friend who has my boy dog's brother). Now I really die, right! She says that my main reason for coming down there is not to talk to the people but to the dogs and they both laugh. It was funny but I was glad to introduce him to one of my friends. The moment passed and nothing more was said about my little intro. Next I want to tackle having him meet my son. I've already worked up my conversation script so the next time we are together I am going to open up the discussion ... yikes!

Hey Bunny -- I dare say it depends. I know, really answer, huh? :-[ The reason I put it that way is that I would say the thoughts change. My dad died nearly 23 years ago; I think of him every so often and I supposed it's because there are milestones in my life that he never got to see. I occasionally think about the first husband and he's been dead for 17 years. I think about LH at odd times; his death was not sudden, unexpected but not sudden. I am with someone new now and as I was with NG yesterday morning, I thought to myself, I hope [LH] would be proud of how I'm doing this. It's different for each of us but I suppose they will always be part of our psyche ...

tybec: {{{hugs}}} this is the best I can offer at such a time. Regroup for sure, for yourself, your children. Much love to you hun.

trying2: that's a hoot! My NG loves his grub as well. If I want to make him smile, I bake brownies I feel bad though because I was cracking myself up the other night and sent a text in the third person ... something like "There's this girl who wants to go out with this guy on a Saturday night sometime soon, what do you think are her chances?" He wrote back with something like, "I really want to, I do, but I won't have any extra cash from this overtime for another week or two." He has been working like a dog because his company screwed up, getting up at 3:30 am every day. I know it, but was hoping it would make him laugh. He did mention a movie though, so I hope he saw the humor in it. Sigh. This dating thing, as my pretend little brother says, is so junior high. And it's not easy!

Oooh, Needy -- he likes you At least that's what the relationship psych people I read say about those random touchy opportunities. Good for you!

Ha! I am not that quick but I think I'd like a little verbal confirmation. Don't know if it's embarrassment or what. I mean, he has no problem holding hands, rubbing my back, kissing in public. He's even given me a foot massage -- used a hot cloth to wash my feet beforehand and all. I guess that's why I don't have good luck with houseplants ... I am waiting for them to say something, like the dogs or the cat However, I still have hope because my fish don't talk either and I've managed to keep them alive ;D

That is beautiful, tybec -- happy for each of you! It's funny; I have never been the expressive type when it comes to relationships; my parents were not like that and the first husband was too abusive for me to learn it. Second husband was very verbally expressive and after 16 years together I guess I got used to it. Now being with a man who doesn't express it verbally feels strange. We don't talk about what's next at all. The words 'I love you' have never come up. We don't have photos together. I occasionally try to send a flirty text but don't get a response. Hope this isn't too TMI, but at Christmas, I think I shared this, I made him a gift of coupons -- for back massages, full body massages, and other more intimate play ... I included three blanks in there for him to decide what he wanted to cash them in for -- and every now and again he'll pull one out but it's always for the massages. I had put one in there for the fantasy of his choice and when he read it that day, he said his fantasies are pretty tame. Never gave a hint, has never mentioned using the coupon. From his stories, his ex was not very caring when it came to intimacy ... demanded 'f***king' instead of 'making love' sort of thing and he hated that, so I figured giving him space to share what he'd like would be cool. The closeness has grown over time, don't get me wrong. It took quite some time in the beginning for him to even kiss me goodnight, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. For the most part I just let things happen as they do, no pressure. But it would be nice to get a glimpse into the future I think this is why the message series at church is about the harvest right now. My pastor's talk last week was about not stepping on the small sprouts of growth that, when left alone to grow and mature, turn into our harvest. We can ruin the crop if we mess with it. I need to listen to that talk again, daily perhaps

Oh, klim! Hoping things go fantastically well. Maybe on the way to your destination you can chat casually about the itinerary and try to include some 'you' time in there. Bunny -- that sounds fabulous. I have done two short day trips with NG; I have to say I felt some type of way at first when he found out he had to work during this last one and we would not actually be going together, but in the end I realize it was necessary. I needed to drive there by myself. The last time I'd been on those parts of the highway had been with LH and my son -- it was a cathartic drive, cleansing in a way. I had the suite to myself Friday night, did a bit of exploring once I got there, went down to the beach (with LH and son we had never gone to the beach out there; I've been to two beaches with NG now and in all my time here with LH, we'd been to one beach two or three times ... other trips near the beach meant I often walked to the water myself to stick my feet in but we didn't actually have on suits and go out there together, know what I mean?) and walked around. I had work to do Saturday morning so had he been there, he would have had to entertain himself for a couple hours anyway. I had time to go to the beach by myself first thing, do my meeting, and get cleaned up by the time he got there. It was short, but like I posted, the fact that he would drive all that way after working such a grueling schedule meant a lot. I hope once his work schedule settles a little we can talk about maybe taking a few days to go back east; he says he'd like to see his sister who lives in Philly and my mom lives in South Jersey still. However, I'd like him to meet my son first, who lives out here where we are ... so many thoughts ... Anyway, onward, klim and all!

Good for you, Needy. Fingers and toes crossed that he will behave himself ... Since there is a Winnebago thread, we could road trip to each other for back up ;D

Hugs to all going through this. I don't miss all that with LH's ex.

MrsDan: while a very painful thing, thank you for sharing there. Your followup made me think of how I look at life right now and how I try to look out for my needs; to use your language in a way, I felt second (or second and third?) to my son's special needs and my husband's illness(es), never having time to take care of myself very well. The only times I had for myself were during my commutes to work, where I was still worrying if they were all right at home ... The two parts I took away from Metv's post were these: And: From NG's point of view, maybe he can't juggle all the pieces at the same time. I read somewhere that in general, men tend not to multitask as well as women. People in general really don't actually multitask well, no matter their gender, but women tend to be not as bad as a group as men when it comes to handling many things at once. It sounds like him having his children is not just a simple thing -- there are certain times, dates, lengths of time, seasons, lack of ease in making adjustments. Maybe there are reasons why he hasn't involved his mom or any other relatives in helping so he can incorporate more family time with you and your children, maybe those reasons are that it hasn't crossed his mind to do so. This is a far out example of a thought process, but I hope you'll hang with me here. Last year, NG asked me to drive him to the airport; he was going to pick up a truck from out of state to bring back for his new job. He rode his motorcycle to my house and we were going to leave from here. He parked it in the garage and everything. It dawned on me that there would be no simple way for him to get his bike when he got back ... if I rode (and I don't) and took it back to his place, he would have to bring me home. Otherwise, I would have to make a round trip to pick him up to bring him my house to get it. He said something about wanting to go shopping for an outfit to wear when he met the new work folks for the first time and also realized he'd left something at his place, which gave me the plan: I suggested I follow him to his place to drop off his bike and then drive him to the mall. That way, his bike would be at his house and he wouldn't have to figure out how to get it when he came back with the work truck. It was like a lightbulb went off. He told me I was so smart, that he hadn't even thought about it, and thanked me. It just never dawned on him. It took me saying it. Maybe, as Mizpah said, it will take having a deeper conversation -- at a time when visitation is not coming up so it won't seem like you are putting pressure? Just a thought.

TooSoon -- your comment about not following our own advice made me smile

I often wonder if it's more a matter of an issue of focus ... My NG's children are both adults, one he is estranged from. He has a granddaughter. In his case, it's not so much the kids but it's work for the most part. He would also take time for himself where he disconnected from everybody, including me. It's not like it was when we were first getting to know each other; now, after a year and a couple months I notice he will tell me of his plans, like when he needed to go to a friend's place about two hours or so from our area. I too get in my zone, where I'm doing things and don't include him. I might invite and if he doesn't respond or responds late, I'm out and doing whatever I had planned. Do I get irritated and sad? Sure -- because a part of me wants to spend every second with him. But the only child in me takes over and I get back to myself, realizing that I have work to do, a house to run, and things I like to do on my own. I know this is off topic, but what gets me a bit is that I haven't met his granddaughter and that we haven't introduced each other to friends. I have come to the realization that it takes him more time to decide to do these sorts of things and the fact that we haven't done it is not a situation where he's keeping me away from his friends and granddaughter but more that it's things like she's not at the house on the weekends (especially during the summer she's not there at all I don't think) and his friends are his personal space, which he doesn't have a lot of with his crazy work schedule. I haven't suggested he meet my son yet, although I am thinking about it. I have mentioned doing things with friends a couple times but didn't act on it because the events were things I really didn't want to do either. Sigh. Building relationships is hard.

So sorry, MrsDan. Hoping you are taking care of yourself. {{{hugs}}}

Oh my yes, real life interfering! One funny thing that I think I may have mentioned in an earlier post ... I have the visitor's parking permit to NG's apartment complex; I mentioned I was going to give it to him and he told me to hang onto it and give it to him later that day. It's been like two weeks ... I didn't think of giving it over this weekend since we didn't ride together anywhere and when he walked me to my car when we were leaving, he didn't actually walk up to the window to look in to see it. It's like we are too busy to pay attention to details. That, or he doesn't care that I still have it, which is a good indication that he won't mind me staying at his place ;D

Well, back from the weekend away. So on Friday, NG texts to say he is waiting to hear from work about mandatory overtime for Saturday. He ends up having to work that morning; when I got the message I replied that I was going anyway because I would lose money of I changed or cancelled the reservation and that I would miss him. He started apologizing and I was like, not your fault but this company that doesn't plan jobs well. He says he could come down in the company truck right after they finish. I was good with that since I did have a video meeting with students that I could not get out of. Saturday rolls in. I spent the morning on the beach, did my meeting, and was comfortably reading with my feet propped up when he got there. We went back to the beach and ended up doing dinner, just us; since he didn't know how the work thing was going to turn out he didn't call his friends, figuring it was too short notice. I agreed since I had tried to meet up on Friday night with one of my friends who lives in that town and wasn't able to. We chilled out and talked. Unfortunately the walls were thin so we were awake like every hour because there was a ehem, noisy and rabbit-like couple going at it :-[ I was glad we had some time away, even though it was short. He has been getting up at like 3:30 to be at work by 6 because it takes almost 2 hours to get ro the job site, and even on Saturday it's probably close to an hour and a half. With all that he still drove another hour to the beach. Hoping next time will be better ...

Thank you, Mizpah, for trusting us. Something my LH once said about trusting and love: it's like opening your chest and allowing someone to hold your heart in their hands whilst trusting them not to crush it and harm you. Add to that another word of wisdom from my friend/little brother I never had: dating and recoupling is so junior high ;D : I hear you about not being second best. I would dare say if after having LW he's chosen to be with you, that you aren't second best ... that you are different and first best in your space like LW was different and first best in her space. I think I shared that I read dating and relationship information and one thing I read a while ago was about the notion of a soul mate -- do we get just one. The commentator wrote no, otherwise basically people would never separate or divorce and if a partner died, the other partner would never be able to recouple. And as far as being wanted for you, not because of obligation -- hell, yeah! Jokes aside, the issue there is having the conversation about it and being ready to move forward should the answer not be what you are hoping for. If he says he's in it for all of you and because he wants to be with you, there it is. If he says he's in it for obligation, there it is. You then have the knowledge and can decide whether you believe that he is there for you and leave it go or if he's in it for the obligation, you can decide your next moves. Not easy in any case, but better to know than eat yourself from the inside out not knowing. {{{hugs mightily}}}