questions about faith.

[imissdow]

So I find myself in a interesting(For me) situation.  Let me say from the get go I'm not interested in debating my faith/belief system.  As I type this it might come out sounding like that.  I was raised in the John  Westley  tradition different churches that all had teaching stemming from him.  I now attend a non-denominational church and I have attended there for 16 years. Everything I thought I was sure of has been rocked by the death of my DH and all the assorted stuff that has happened since .  I am sure there is a GOD who has put things in motion so this world works. I'm also sure that he is involved  in our lives and  makes/causes things to happen.  So I find myself these days rather Pissed with him.  From where I sit it seems like he is doing a pretty lousy job.  I totally get that stuff happens to everyone, Good, bad, everyone dies eventually. We don't get to choose a lot of what happens in our lives. Control is a illusion that allows us to function and feel safe.  But it is just a illusion.  However belief in a GOD who is in control of things throws a monkey wrench into things.  Because then things happen for a reason and not random chance.  I've pretty much given up on the idea of ever understanding why GOD allowed my DH to get sick and die. However different stuff has happened in the last couple of years that I also don't understand.  So I now have a bunch of WTF questions floating around in my head. I don't seem to be able to rid myself of them.

 

In a lot of ways what I used to think no longer works. Yet I haven't found anything that works better. So were to got from here?  I can't just stop believing in God  there is why to much proof that I see over and over for me to do that.  I also see to much proof in a God that is involved in my life to believe that he doesn't care.  I do however wonder what the heck he's thinking most of the time because it just doesn't make any kind of sense to me.  I do realize that some of you are probably thinking a pastor or a priest might be a good choice for answers however I have done that and they didn't have answers for me either.  Someone told me that this is were faith comes in to play.  However Faith is believing in something you can't see, touch or feel.  I have plenty of faith but no answers.  I have waited and waited hoping that at some point I would begin to understand.. 4 1/2 years later I still don't understand any of it.  I am a different person then I was 4 years ago. Better, worse I don't know it would probably depend on who you asked.

 

I have thought about just chucking the whole church thing however that doesn't exactly work for me either.  I have raised my 3 kids to believe the same things I do/did. I guess I did a good job in that regard because they are all very active and involved in our church and community. It would totally pull the rug out from under them if I just decided to quit church all together.  So I feel rather stuck. I can't say I'm unhappy with my church. I still have friends, people I care about, I just don't get much out of it. 

So anyone out there that has figured out a way to come to grips with all of this?  My life is so much better then it was a couple of years ago. However this seems to be were I'm currently stuck. I keep coming back to it and I really want to be done. 

[NoKindaDancer]

There is a book, "why bad things happen to good people" by rabbi kushner that really helped me to reconcile much of what you are battling with. It just helped me see things with a different viewpoint. I go to church often out of the community of it and because of my kids. I sometimes figure that I have a very different perspective than most others in the pews. I don't think that God plans for bad things to happen or that there is a greater better plan for me. I think the plan got messed up by random chance and free will.

[Guest TooSoon]

I would also recommend, Jon Kabat-Zinn's "Wherever You Go, There You Are."  It is rooted in Buddhism and though I'm an avowed atheist, I could still appreciate the message which I found pretty neutral yet powerful and a helpful perspective in times of doubt - any kind of doubt. 

[Sugarbell]

I went thru this right around 4 years. Actually when I had my spiritual experience that changed/saved my life....I started steering away from traditional organized religion. (I was also raised Methodist and my kids are being raised Methodist).

 

And I want them to continue to be raised in the church. There is so much good that comes out of it-not just the organized religious part/teachings. I go...I daydream....I look at it more of a place that does good works in the community.

 

I believe in God, an afterlife...I think all religions were just created by man...They all have good teachings and when taken to the extreme are bad news. I practice meditation and aspects of Buddism...I love nature and worship in nature....herbs/sage/energies and practice aspects of Wiccan...and I practice aspects of Christianity. It's what works for me. It's a personal choice and makes me a better person. Ultimately-I believe religion or lack of religion is a personal thing and whatever gives a person peace.

 

The whole "blessed" life made me pissed at God early on. I believe most things are random. I think God, higher power, universe, etc...basically wants us to use our talents to help fellow man.

 

I am still evolving and searching....but this is the track that makes the most sense to me.

[twistedmensa]

I have many of the same feelings. My faith has been shaken to the core. It isn't that I question the existence of God, but my understanding of the nature of God has been shattered. This has been very troubling for me, since my faith is what has gotten me through the most trying times of my life.

[Mizpah]

There is a book, "why bad things happen to good people" by rabbi kushner that really helped me to reconcile much of what you are battling with. It just helped me see things with a different viewpoint.

 

This is exactly what I thought of as I read your post.  You are asking the exact same questions the author asked.  I think you'd like reading the book.  His young son died at a very young age after a life of lots of suffering - he had a disease/condition, I believe. 

 

[This may be of no help, because I am of a totally different belief system from you, but: I've never believed in Gd.  When DH died, I started going to synagogue (we were both Jewish - he believed in Gd, I didn't).  I went partly because I wanted to say the mourner's prayer for him, as is custom, knowing that it meant something to him, and I cared more about him than myself at the time.  I also went because I didn't want to go straight home on Friday evenings after work because we used to be so excited to get home to each other and I had nothing to return to.  But what I found there was just what you describe: community.  I also found the comfort of ritual, and of symbol and meaning, and found that, though I'd been very anti-religion before, even in the absence of belief in Gd, there is so much in religion and religious tradition that is about human life, human need - the stories and lessons can be metaphors and guides even without the Gd aspect.  Even if there is a Gd, so much of RELIGION (religion as apart from Gd) is mythology, created by humans for human need, the human life cycle, the human psyche/soul/mind/heart.  I glossed over the things that didn't "jive with" my beliefs, and I took from it what I needed, what nourished and helped me.  Maybe there's some way that you can take the good from it and sorta "daze out" during the stuff that upsets you or that you find useless.  Or maybe you need to cut back a little.  I don't know.  But I hope you find some peace.] 

[Catnip]

I agree, there are so many questions. I'm Catholic, went to grade school with nuns wearing the old habits, and I attended an all girl high school, again, taught by nuns. And then I went to a college founded by nuns. Do I believe in God? Yes. I attend Mass every Sunday, also because of the community feeling of belonging.

 

I look at it this way. I'm secretary to the Dean of Math and Science at a college. I deal with full-time tenured Ph.D. faculty members all day long. It's funny that some of them cannot figure out the copy machine to fax/scan, 2-sidded copies, they are absent minded professors. Yet their knowledge of Physics? And to be able to teach it? And then there are the Ph.D. people in Computer Science. My knowledge of computers only goes as far as to perform my job. But they teach computers to graduate international students? How on earth do they know all that? I will never know as much as they do.

 

So back to God. He is the one who knows everything about anything. We are not expected to ever know what He knows or thinks. We can question Him, but He is so far above us we will never be able to even fathom it. And we are not expected to know, because, we are human. So being mad at Him only goes so far, since we will never know exactly what He is doing, until we join Him at the end of time.

 

I think that because we have experienced that fine line between life and then the death of our spouse, that questioning our existence is only natural. And it hurts that we can not yet experience what our spouses have already, ahead of us.

 

We must wait.

[RobFTC]

However belief in a GOD who is in control of things throws a monkey wrench into things.  Because then things happen for a reason and not random chance.

 

I believe in God.  But I don't in any way believe every little thing that goes on is ordered by, or even OK with, God.  Lots of random chance happens, and determines major outcomes, and God is picky about intervening.  This either/or thing I think trips up a lot of folks.

 

Another thing is that if there is a God and an afterlife, death that rocks us has to mean something VERY different from God's perspective.

 

I am never quite sure where I am with my faith.  I probably have more "am I nuts?" moments than I used to have.  I sometimes want to

quit going, or to try another church, especially with one girl turned atheist and one far more interested in sleeping than attending.  But I

had an encounter once, and keep going back to that.

 

Take care,

Rob T

[Guest TalksToAngels]

Everyone needs something to believe in.

I believe I will have another beer.

[Neverthesame]

Imissdow,

 

Your post covers pretty much everything that I felt for a long time. I was raised in church and thought I pretty much had God figured out. When my wife got cancer I began to question everything. When she died, my faith was shattered. Like you, I probably would have quit going to church had it not been for my kids. I?m 9 years out now and all I can do is tell you how I came to grips with things as far as my faith goes.

 

1) As someone here has already said, there is just no way that we can comprehend and understand everything. It?s human nature to think that we?re smart and that we should be able to find an explanation for any question that comes up. I finally decided that part of my faith was accepting that there are things that I simply cannot understand or explain in this life. Faith is generally defined as ?the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen?. I finally decided that nowhere in that definition does it guarantee me an answer to every question.

 

2) I also decided that if I truly believe in God and heaven then getting out of this world is the final reward. As much as I didn?t like being left here alone I really couldn?t be unhappy that my wife got to go on to her reward. I?ll stay here and do the best I can until my time comes and then I?ll see my wife again.

 

3) We often compare our relationship with God to that of a parent/child relationship. As I see it, I can?t put my children in a bubble. As they grow and mature things will happen. It won?t always be because I want them to or let them, but things will happen none the less. I figure?. why should I expect my relationship with God be different?

 

Like you, I can see where God still works in my life. I?m sure that there will be future events in my life that I won?t understand why things happen the way they do?.but I can live with that now.  I?m sure that there are some who think I?m silly and that I believe in a fairy tale?.and I?m ok with that. You ask how we came to grips with our loss from a faith standpoint and that?s way of dealing with it.

 

Bill

 

[Amor]

The book of Job helped me to understand some questions of why God allows things to happen. 

I hope this helps. 

[pms1954]

I've always believed in God. Jim dying didn't change that. Like what has been stated before, some things we don't and cant understand. We will later. I think some things happen because we have free will, and sometimes someone else's free will interfers with your life. As hard as it is here without him, the thought that there is no God, no after life, and that I wont ever see him again is unbearable.

[imissdow]

Lots to think about. 

Rob: I don't actually think that GOD is really interested in every detail of my life. I tend to believe he  acts more like I do with my girls.  I'm not the least bit concerned with what they chose to wear to school today or what they might have eaten for breakfast or lunch. I know what is in their dressers and the fridge.  However I am very concerned with who they choose as friends and what they are doing otherwise.  They are free to make a lot of decisions on their own and if and when they need help I'm happy to do that. There are still lots of decisions I make for them. I would agree that GOD is picky about were and when he chooses to intervene. 

 

Catnip:  I do get that my brain is just way to small to understand all the whys and to see the bigger picture.  I'm also sure that my DH is probably shaking his head and wishing I would just quit trying to figure it out.

 

Bill: You put into writing a lot of what I honestly believe and think. My DH is in a better place and He doesn't miss me.  I really don't want him back. I'm just not real happy being stuck here without him.  Maybe I just need to come to terms with the fact that I will never understand and move on. I've done it before I should be able to do it again. 

 

Amor: I've read Job many times and it does help. It's actually become one of my favorite books and I have a new appreciation and understanding of it.

 

I think part of my problem is I figured I had suffered enough for awhile and things were bound to get better.  Yet instead of that life continues to just be really hard.  I also kind of figured by this point I would have met someone and that doesn't seem to be working out either.

My MIL is probably dying of the same thing my DH had.  The doctors haven't come to that conclusion but I look at her and see the same things I saw with DH.  My Middle DD is planning out trips to Africa, France, and Guatemala. I am not ready for her to leave yet.  My oldest  is not leaving anytime soon and I am ready for her to be more independent.  If that wasn't enough I'm getting ready to sell my house and that is proving to be emotionally  more difficult then I anticipated.  I just want to be happy again  and finding that place is proving to be incredibly difficult.

 

I think I may go order a couple of books. I like to read and maybe I'll actually lean something.   

 

 

[IfIonlycould]

 

So anyone out there that has figured out a way to come to grips with all of this?  My life is so much better then it was a couple of years ago. However this seems to be were I'm currently stuck. I keep coming back to it and I really want to be done. 

 

For me it is more about spirituality than religion, the belief in the universal sense of love, so I guess we'd say my God is Love.  After feeling absolute despair for so many years I have feelings of love again, for the world around me, for people in my life, for simple moments, some may say these are God moments.  I have given up ever trying to make sense of why any of us here on this board are on this board and why did "that person get spared", I simply one day called it quits on questioning all of it, any of it, most of it.  One of my (so to speak ) spiritual guidance counselors once said to me  "Religion is for people trying to stay out of Hell, spiritually is for people who have already been there."

 

 

[Freelancing]

I read Journey of Souls and the author's following books daily like a bible for years.

 

Before I could absorb any faith based information I had to allow myself to let out the screaming rage I built up toward God. It was a tremendous help and much better than asking "WHY" all the time.

 

Hope this helps.

[Prov31cadet]

I am a Christian. I believe we live in a fallen world, where everything bad comes from the devil, and everything good comes from God. God created this world so His plan of us needing salvation could happen. I am comforted to know that my husband is in heaven now. He is healed of his cancer, and living in perfection. I am jealous too because I am not there yet. I still have to live without him, and deal with this sinful world. I look at it that God knew my husband had lived his life to the fullest, and his time was finished here on earth. I don't know when my time is up, so I am to honor and love God and others until it is. God has blessed me so much for me to be mad at Him. It is not wrong, though, to tell Him you are hurt and to ask why. He knows our thoughts. Please don't think that I think everything is sunshine and roses. It is far from it. I am lonely and heart broken just like everyone else is or has been. Please keep the faith. God is a loving and understanding God. Don't give up on Him because he won't give up on you. Sending hugs and love! 🙂

[Freelancing]

Its not about giving up on God, its about strengthening ones faith. Everyone faith gets tested in one way or another throughout life. There are countless stories in the Bible that attest to it. My DH's death was powerful enough to question everything I had ever believed. Rather than stuff my anger in the pit of my stomach, I allowed myself to be honest with how I felt about God and death. After all God created human beings and is totally aware of all the emotions we are equipped with to experience life to its fullest in whatever manner they are expressed.

 

I've also never been one to be fixed in being told so and so has it worse than me or God has blessed me in so many ways so I should be thankful. I honestly believe there is a better way to help the grieving instead using guilt or shame to get them out of their own personal hell.

[THATgurl]

imissdow my thoughts are with you on this and I hope you find a path to peace with it all soon.  While we come from very different places in terms of belief, I would just like to second the recommendations for the first two books mentioned - Why Bad Things Happen to Good People and Wherever You Go, There You Are (I have not read the other books mentioned).  I approach reading these types of books with the thought that I can embrace and incorporate any parts that fit with my beliefs into my life.  What doesn't work for me, I read with more detached interest.  Both books were really beneficial for me personally.