Mizpah Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I lost DH almost 5 years ago. I have an almost-2-year-old daughter with a widower. We live together. We have a family together. We've had a rough time of it for much of the past two years, but over the past few months, things have improved exponentially. I never used to care about marriage. Now suddenly I do. He doesn't want to get married. I do. I feel like I'm stuck "between a rock and a hard place," forced to choose between losing the person I want to be with in order to maybe have the right situation (marriage), or losing the hope of the situation I want in order to be with the person I want to be with.... I don't even know why I care - I'm not religious, I don't care what other people think. I think it's partly that he doesn't want to that makes me want to, or maybe it's not that I want to BE married, but that I want him to want to marry me.... I don't know what I'm asking all of you. Maybe I'm not asking anything. This dilemma is hurting inside. Maybe by venting it, I'll feel better. I don't know. I don't want to have to make this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsDan Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Dan did not want to get married for a long time. Maybe he never did, I don't know. I'm just saying, it hurt. Whether it should or shouldn't have, it did. So I validate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trying Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Is this a subject the two of you can discuss without argument? Maybe if you could both calmly talk about your feelings on marriage you could understand each other with less hurt feelings. Sometimes with things like this it's hard to even articulate WHY we feel the way we do. The fact that you have changed means it's possible that he could change too but I would think that it would have to come from him and not because he feels backed into a corner in fear he might lose you (I'm not saying this is what you are doing). I'm happy to hear that you have worked through a rough patch and that things are going well. You have faced such major life changes in 5 years and deserve a little smooth sailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenHeart2 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Awesome advice. I hope you both find peace in your path. We change as we get older. Not surprised at all. Big hugs M! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelerswife Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Being married was really important to me, and fortunately, it was also important to John. If nothing else, it sure made it easier after he died. The legal aspects and estate issues could be complicated if you aren't married? I would encourage you to keep talking to him. I would hope that he would value the things that you value and he would listen to your feelings and articulate clearly to you what his feelings are as well. To me, when one is in a committed relationship, one owes one's partner good explanations, not ultimatums. Maybe he is not even sure why he feels the way he feels? Best wishes, Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenHeart2 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Maureen you articulated my thoughts exactly. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I would encourage you to keep talking to him. I would hope that he would value the things that you value and he would listen to your feelings and articulate clearly to you what his feelings are as well. To me, when one is in a committed relationship, one owes one's partner good explanations, not ultimatums. Maybe he is not even sure why he feels the way he feels? I worry that talking about it is just pressure. I haven't given him ultimatums, but I feel like I'm under one: accept this or leave. I hate feeling like I care more, want more, love more, than my partner, but this issue does make me feel that way, and it permeates everything for me inside. I'm an attorney, and he's a non-communicator, and I think that talking about it makes him feel like I'm trying to "lawyer him," or that I'm trying to convince him. Which all just makes me so sad, because like I said, I think it's really that I want him to WANT to marry me, not just to eventually give in and "compromise" because it's what I want. We just went on vacation together, him and me without the baby for the first time, and I felt so much envy for all the honeymooners, because those women have the status I want: their men want to be with them forever. I hate self-pity, but I'm feeling it hardcore right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Is this a subject the two of you can discuss without argument? Maybe if you could both calmly talk about your feelings on marriage you could understand each other with less hurt feelings. Sometimes with things like this it's hard to even articulate WHY we feel the way we do. The fact that you have changed means it's possible that he could change too but I would think that it would have to come from him and not because he feels backed into a corner in fear he might lose you (I'm not saying this is what you are doing). It feels so sad to me to think about sitting with him talking about why he doesn't want to marry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenHeart2 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Mizpah, is it that he doesn't want to marry you, or doesn't want to marry anyone? Does him being widowed have anything to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 He's said various things. Among them are the he doesn't feel we've had a peaceful enough relationship to take that step, that we should not fight at all for a year before deciding to get married (does anyone not have a disagreement for a year???? even in my pretty damn ideal relationship with DH, we had "fights" every now and then - nothing crazy, but I wouldn't say that we never had a "fight"). He's said that he never wanted to get married, but that his DW was the exception "because she was awesome" (um, thanks). He's said that we both took that route before and look how it turned out. I feel like it's all just excuses. I feel like it's that old "he's just not that into you" thing. We got pregnant unexpectedly during what we thought was a fling initially and quickly got really serious and in-love-y, but it wasn't like we took things slowly and he decided he wanted to be with me forever. It's possible he's only with me because we share a child. I don't know. My fears and insecurities have taken hold. I feel rejected and less loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpico Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I doubt this helps your insecurities, but it appears that you have changed and he hasn't, so I'm not sure it's fair to expect him to change. I also don't think waiting until things are more peaceable is a bad thing, though the general ambivalence regarding marriage on both of your parts makes this tougher to justify. I mean, if an official marriage isn't/wasn't a big deal, does it really matter if things don't work out? Those are my pragmatic thoughts, but here are my more heartfelt, empathetic thoughts: This must be really tough for you. Despite what I said above, you ARE entitled to a change of heart, and I'm sure it's difficult that your desire for marriage isn't shared by him. Advice? Not sure I have any, except to keep an open mind and try to see his side and maybe win him over without the lawyerly ruthlessness? (That was a joke ) Best of luck to you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenHeart2 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'm sorry Mizpah, this must be very painful. I think that couples that never disagree or fight about anything are not really being completely honest. That's just my opinion. Best of luck to you. Hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I mean, if an official marriage isn't/wasn't a big deal, does it really matter if things don't work out? I really don't think it's about the legal status to me. It's about mutual, reciprocal feelings - I can say to him I want to be with him forever, and he's not saying the same. Marriage is a declaration of that. I don't expect him to change, and part of me feels like it's all ruined anyway - even if he has a change of heart (and this is a big big if), I'll wonder if he's willing just because I want to and he's giving in, or if he really wants to.... It seems stupid to leave a relationship I want to be in for a technical status, but I'm actually considering it. Ugh. (Edited to add: hahahaha, Serpico!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobFTC Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Counseling and good will can solve a lot. I think you should pitch visiting a counselor, because you have a child - would it not be vastly better if you don't split up? Yes, it will mean you will have to listen to him potentially saying what he's feeling, which might not be what you want to hear - but if you're not willing to do that, you're going to make a decision on what you THINK he might say, not on what he does say. I bet there's more going on. I thought a clue was that he wanted more peace for awhile (though saying "no fights for a year" is not a mature statement or a good plan). Actively working on more peace and harmony in the relationship would work better. In that dimension, counseling or not, I recommend this book, "Couple Skills" - I still have two copies: http://www.amazon.com/Couple-Skills-Making-Your-Relationship/dp/157224481X/ This helped me and DW really learn to handle disagreements in better ways and get to be a better team. It's laid out like a shop manual - if you're having this problem, start by reading these chapters. Learning better ways to introduce an issue and better ways to react to that were both skills, and most of us could use some spit-and-polish there. Take care, Rob T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2507 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You mention "that he's just not into you". I think that is a great movie everyone should see. You deserve someone that IS that into you. I agree with marriage being like an announcement of intentions and commitment for this to work and last forever. The wait and see if we don't argue or look how it turned out last time do seem like excuses but maybe like Ben Affleck he could have a change of heart and realize its important because it is important to you. Not like you forced him but because he values your relationship so much that he wants to make that statement. If not then maybe you don't want to stay in it. Its a hard place to be in because feeling insecure in a relationship tends to make people want to pull back and not put all they have into it, so to avoid getting hurt but this causes a relationship to stagnate and slowly die. Maybe give yourself a break from thinking about it and say revisit it again in 2 months, see if counseling is an option, work on developing your relationship as it all kind of happened fast, make some good memories, little things go a long way in cementing a relationship. Maybe he will get there but right now you are a little a head of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catnip Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just a thought: Whose idea was it to get married? My Dad was very stubborn. If something was not HIS idea, he would NOT do it. Maybe he wanted to surprise you with a ring, but you ruined it and brought it up first?? Good luck, ~Catnip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 When we first found out I was pregnant, and reeling from it, he said at one point it would've been better to get pregnant once we were already married, but blah blah blah. A few months ago, I brought it up in the context of feeling like I was way more invested in our relationship and that I did a lot more of the work/giving in the family/household/relationship, and felt neglected and taken for granted. He definitely did NOT want to surprise me with a ring. Definitely. I wish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenHeart2 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just curious, did he agree with you about you being more invested? Did anything improve after that discussion or did he pull back? Sorry you're going through this M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 When he feels that things could escalate or become confrontational, he withdraws. He's extremely uncommunicative about relationships and emotions. So did he agree? No. Did he disagree? No. He pulls back during discussions, but things usually improve after them - he's a man of action and NOT of words (the opposite of me - words are everything to me). Over the past few months, he's become much more embracing of me, more affectionate, slower to anger/frustration, quicker to resolve and get over things, he's even apologized (something I NEVER EVER thought would happen) at times. I would say that he does believe I'm more invested, in that he thinks that I care "too much" in general, about everything, including/especially him. (He comes from a childhood that was filled with parental fighting/anger/abuse - between mother and father, and directed from parents to children - verbal, emotional and violent physical abuse. He left home at 15, never to return, taking care of himself. As a result (I believe), he is very unemotional and thinks of human connection and a desire for it as weakness and neediness (I think from having to go with his emotional needs not being met and changing for survival's sake). I, on the other hand, come from a background of OVERcommunication about EVERYthing, in which closeness between people was all that mattered. We're opposites in so many ways.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizpah Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Thanks, guys, for letting/helping me talk this out. It's a relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 It seems stupid to leave a relationship I want to be in for a technical status, but I'm actually considering it. Ugh. But you would not be leaving for a technical status, really. It's what that lack of status means to you, your interpretation of his rejection of it. it's not so much him not wanting to get married as you feeling like: 'he doesn't love me enough to at least *want* to marry me'. That's a pretty big thing for you to wrestle with emotionally. But yeah- it's never a good idea to be a convincer or ultimatum giver as men respond very poorly to that kinda stuff. I was super into getting married to my husband. But I'm much more ambivalent about marrying my boyfriend, even as we continue to make life long plans together and I am completely devoted to him. Why? I'm still working on that. I mention this because I can kinda understand both your boyfriend's and your side. Someone on the ywbb once recommended the book 'Undefended Love' and it really did change my life for the better. please, please, please read it. It's an amazing self-help book packaged as a relationship book. Because really- the only person we can change is ourselves, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarbell Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Maybe he's really into the relationship but just doesn't want to get married? My committed relationship has been for a year and a half...I think he is starting to think of marriage but knows I am not yet ready to think about it. But we don't live together either-nor do I want to. I think if I had a child with him I would more likely want to be married sooner (that's just me-not saying it's right for anyone else) Personally...I wouldn't bring it up again...it sounds like he's scared and it really has nothing to do with you-it's his issues to work out. I guess I would reevaluate what you are each getting/giving from the relationship..the child and take it from there. If you know he will never want to be married and you know you definitely want to be married...that could be a big issue. You don't deserve to feel "second best". You deserve it all. Really not an answer-just wanted to send support and let you know I am rooting for you either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captains wife Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Mizpah - firstly I am very happy to hear your relationship has improved, it sounds as though he is listening even if he doesn't want to talk about it. Given his upbringing his behavior makes sense although the fact you two have very different communication styles must be frustrating for you. Although clearly not the same, having dated someone for almost 2 years who wouldn't communicate with me on things that mattered to me was very upsetting and it was so hard to gauge where I stood in his life. I understand your desire to be married again, especially considering you two have a child together. For me, although I was never dying to get married (my husband was), I felt more secure being married - that both parties would work harder to work through issues. it must feel very hurtful to hear your partner doesn't want to get married and especially if he throws down the "getting along for a long period of time" as a necessity. We are humans, there is bound to be some conflict, especially if young children are involved. Yet it does sound as though this isn't personal towards you- he just doesn't want to get married again period. Honestly, I had that attitude for a long time and it was my issue, not a reflection of who I was with. This will need to be a reflection period for you- to better understand how important getting married is to you. And things may change down the road? But this has to be hurtful and frustrating to work through- I agree that you probably can't talk to him about it too much given his way of dealing with things and he sounds like the kind of person that needs to work through these things on his own, take his time and pushing would only escalate tension in the relationship. Keep strong and keep venting- sending widow support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangirl Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Mizpah, wanted to drop in to give you my support and to say I get this. DH was ambivalent about getting married, to the point that he basically proposed on the evening of the wedding. He was ambivalent about having children...but once our child came he was a great and loving dad. He never felt excited or anticipation about foreign travel until he literally was on the plane. Maybe it was because he couldn't trust in things until they were sure- maybe there were too many broken promises in his past, I don't know, but it was very frustrating, even made him a killjoy sometimes. Part of our rationale for getting married was love but part of it for sure was to make it legally easier for us as he was already diagnosed with cancer. Like Bunny said, I wouldn't put this down to you are contemplating big decisions "only" because of a titular change to your status. I think marriages and weddings and commitment ceremonies like this represent hope. We have all been hammered by no hope...not to sound corny but I can imagine one's soul gets thirsty for some after a while, and committing to each other would seem like an excellent opportunity to replenish this. Reading your story, not getting married sounds like an opportunity wasted to feel that surge of optimism for the future...and I am not tied to the institution. I hope you find your way around this - people have given excellent insights, like you routinely provide to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Tomás Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 I doubt this helps your insecurities, but it appears that you have changed and he hasn't, so I'm not sure it's fair to expect him to change. yep BTW, I kinda think that marriage is for the young so you can just ignore my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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