Chapter 2 conflict

[Trying]

Things are going really well with my chapter 2 relationship (aside from some issues with my kids accepting it).  He is very caring and understanding, he supports me but isn't afraid to call me on my shit when I need it.  We have fun together and tons of chemistry. We are talking about marriage but giving my kids a little more time.

 

Here's the conflict.  I moved last summer and the house I bought is a bit of a fixer upper that I chose for its location in a lakeside neighborhood. I'm getting ready to start some renovations and while I want his input(this is where we will live together) I also want to be able to do the things I had in mind when I bought it.  My feeling is that once he moves in all decisions will be 50-50 but right now I am enjoying having control for the first time in my life.  How much compromise should I be making now when he wont be living here for at least 6-12 more months? He is not contributing financially to the house but I do want it to be "our" home when we are married. 

[BrokenHeart2]

Trying, in my humble opinion, right now it is your house. If it were me, I would just do what I wanted but discuss the renos. Have you 2 talked about what you are wanting to do? Is there something he wants to do that you don't agree with?    Maybe he has some great ideas you haven't though of.  Just sayin!

Good luck with the renos!

 

[Guest TooSoon]

How invested is he in these choices?  I can't imagine my husband would have cared one iota what sorts of renovations I made to the house as long as he didn't have to get involved....

 

Maybe prioritize the projects/spaces most important to you and do them now, keeping him in the loop, and then open up for discussion the possibilities for what you might do together in other spaces somewhere down the line? 

 

Just off the top of my head. 

[Sugarbell]

I agree with TS....when he moves in down the road...you can do joint projects that you both want (and he can split the cost)

 

Right now it's your home. You bought it..you're paying for it...do the stuff you want done.

 

I am assuming your name is the only one on the deed? When he moves in...is he going to be renting (keep it only in your name)  from you or paying for half the costs. If he's paying half the costs add his name to the deed...he would feel like it's both of your home. Only if he is equally contributing finally to the house (Of course I know some may think I am a bitch when it comes to that stuff...but I can't help it!)

 

I know it's complicated and messy....this is why I don't want to live with NG..but that's me.

 

 

[Bunny]

I had to laugh while reading this as I related to it greatly. I've been enjoying the hell out of all the control I have over my home now. It's become kind of a joke that when my boyfriend pushes my boundaries a bit too far I say (with the proper amount of petulance) 'you don't control me!' I'm only half-joking.

 

And it is all slowly changing as we've gotten more and more serious...

 

I also own a fixer-upper. My boyfriend is a carpenter. So, even though he's not living here (yet), he's doing a lot of stuff around here to make my world more beautiful. He's also an artist so is very interested in all aspects of the fixing up / decorating / landscaping, etc. Luckily, we do share a very similar aesthetic. Though, I admit, a few times I've secretly lamented having to once again take someone else's opinion into consideration after being drunk on the power of absolute control over my little kingdom.

 

My opinion: since you are planning on him moving in in the fairly near future, you owe it to him to at least discuss the changes you are wanting to make. Might as well start treating him as a full partner whose opinion you respect -and be ready to persuasively talk him into whatever it is you want done. Who knows? He might bring fresh eyes to some of your ideas and be able to improve upon them, yes?

 

I *know* it's hard to give up any of that control. I do. But the trade off is pretty darn spectacular...

[daysofelijah]

I think since he's moving in relatively soon you should probably include him in the plans, I guess. If you want an equal partnership I'd start out with it that way, if the plans are firm that he will be moving in for the long term.

 

That's one reason why I told NG that I will not move into his house and he will not move into mine. Too hard to let him take over an equal part of "my" house, and I would not be comfortable taking over the house he bought with his x-wife. We will buy a new house together when (if) we get married next summer (that's my plan anyway, he's still slowly getting used to the idea of having to move, and marry me before we will live together, lol).

[Jess]

I think your answer depends on a few things, really.

 

First, are you 100% sure you will be sharing the home? By sharing the home, I mean sharing ownership of it and all the things that come along with that- name on the mortgage/deed, paying into the home, etc. In my case, I when I moved to the new place last summer I was 100% sure that we would be sharing what is now my home, but soon will be our home. As such, it felt natural to me to include him in my decisions as to what the home would be like. I was very resolute that despite being so sure, I would still only invest my money in the home for the down payment, closing costs, and mortgages. After all, you never know what tomorrow may bring. All that said, he did wear me down and supply me with a washer and dryer. If you are not 100% sure, then I see no issue with doing exactly what you want now. If you are, then it may warrant a conversation with him.

 

How urgently are the renovations needed? Is having them undone negatively impacting your quality of life (either through inconvenience or emotionally just being sick of having things not done)? How major are the renovations and will they be a huge investment? In my case, while it is an older home, it isn't really a fixer upper so it was probably a lot easier for me to include him in those decisions as they were largely surface changes that were cosmetic versus structural. Those kind of changes are easily changed again to incorporate shared taste and if that is what you are looking at, then go nuts and don't think twice about it. If the changes are bigger and costly, then perhaps talking about the changes you are considering would let you know if it is a big deal or not?

 

I know my situation is different because I bought knowing at the time the home would be shared whereas you had ideas of your own you are looking forward to having. It's a different mindset from the get go so my method of handling things is obviously different because I have always been making our home together (1800 miles apart). I think that anyone worth sharing your home with is someone that will recognize that you have a dream for this place you own and would be supportive of you getting what you want out of it.

 

Tons of rambling boils down to maybe just discuss it with him and let him know there are things you planned to do when you bought the place and you still want to do them. See what he says.

[Guest nonesuch]

Watching with interest.  New Beau does not contribute financially to home.  While well meaning, has really questionable taste.  Thought a good color for the new metal roof would be light blue.  Thankfully that color was not on the sheet the roofer handed me to pick from.

[Trying]

Lots of good points here.  We are 100% sure we want to get married, the "when" is still up in the air.  The house will remain in my name only when we marry and he will help with household expenses.  We are not coming into the relationship as equals financially, he got wrecked in his divorce and has child support to pay for the next 13 years also.  I think part of my issue is that I am using the profits of the sale of our old house to pay for the renovations on this new (and smaller) house.  I feel like I bought this house myself with the intention of these renovations and I want to see it through.  The things he is questioning are mostly about the timeline and some weird issue about the garage door we can't seem to agree on. 

 

We got in an argument tonight after my meeting today with the contractor.  I think he feels a little threatened that I am making the decisions for the most part and I get defensive when he points out things he thinks I haven't considered fully.  The reality is that we are not married or living together yet and I'm not so willing to give up total control until we are.

 

 

[serpico]

I own my home outright (no mortgage) and I'm getting married in July. I am completely re-doing my living room and while I'm paying for nearly everything, my fianc?e is very involved in the process. I think it's only fair that she gets equal input, as it will be our home in a few months.

 

While my fianc?e is by no means destitute, I have quite a bit more money than she does. When we get married, though, all of our assets will truly be our assets. Pragmatically it's probably not a wise decision on my part but I'm convinced it gives us the best chance to truly be one.

[Guest TooSoon]

I think serpico brings up a good point, Andy and I dont quite know what our configuration will be but it is and always has been really a "what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine" situation. I am not sure I could envision a long term relationship any other way but that's me.  Perhaps discuss and make it a joint endeavor - a project that is shared, part of this new life you're building.  If you feel strongly about something (it is your house after all), he should be excited for you and want you to have it!  Likewise, if he has some idea you hadnt thought of, you might embrace that as part of the excitement of your shared future together, something that is yours.  At some point it all has to come together as one thing, no more compartmentalizing if youre talking marriage. I could write another effing dissertation on this topic of being almost there but not quite there yet as it relates to a new life as I've been living it with great intensity (and mostly on email) for two years!  You will sort it.  And maybe it was just bugging you today and tomorrow it wont seem so overwhelming.  Hugs. 

[Trying]

Sigh... Yes it was just really bugging me yesterday.  I have tried to include him in the process but it really is all driven by me and he is going along because it's what I want.  I think at times he contradicts me just to see if I will actually let him have a say.  I have a bad habit of becoming defensive when I'm feeling insecure about my ability to handle new situations in my efforts to prove (to myself) my independence in widowhood.

 

I think I'm a little more pragmatic than you are Serpico but probably because my husband was a financial advisor and we talked about this before he died.  When we get married there will be a certain portion protected to be passed onto my children per my husband's request.  Everything else will go into the "ours" category.  New guy makes a decent living so his contribution to our joint bills will be significant but he lost his house and most everything else in his divorce.  He has no issue with this arrangement and we both want all of our children protected in any event.

 

I really appreciate everyone's perspective. There are so many issues around blending families and finances and I tend to be very practical and need to plan and discuss these things so I don't just get swept up in the love and romance part (which is way more fun!).

 

Any more blending stories to share?

[Mizpah]

I moved into my boyfriend's house and we are raising our daughter there.  He's working on the house right now (to prepare to sell it, not for our living purposes, but there are still decisions to be made).  We make decisions generally together.  That being said, I already live there.  While he pays the mortgage, we split expenses approximately equally, and that is one he covers.  It's your home.  But, if he is definitely moving in, he's going to have to live in the space.  If there are redoing dealbreakers for you and things you feel really strongly about, you "win the tie," but in my opinion, you both will have to live there, so if he cannot stand the color green, I wouldn't go painting a room green.  (My boyfriend's living room was dark midnight blue - almost black - when I moved in.  It killed me.  It was so depressing.  I felt like the walls were closing in on me and it was permanent winter/darkness.  He loved it.  It's now a very light, peaceful green that looks lovely with all the trees' green leaves outside against it.  He's come to terms with it.  I've come to terms with just about everything else!  Hahahaha.)  You can be considerate and also independent.  It's all about balance, in my opinion. 

[Bunny]

The amateur feminist sociologist in me has always been fascinated by relationships with unequal money flow or when one partner chooses to stay home while the other works outside the home. In my circle of friends, it's fairly common to see a man staying at home. They seem to have to deal with a lot more emotionally/societally than a woman making that same choice. And I see men marry 'beneath them' monetarily all the time who never seem to bat an eye at this, while a woman seems to struggle more emotionally/societally when she has the upper hand monetarily. It's interesting to me, and I've gotten into some very good discussions with those who are in the more 'deviant' relationships. As far as we have come towards a more equal society, there are some views we each continue to hold on to for various reasons. Myself included.

 

As we all know, some of the most important keys to a happy harmonious relationship are respect and compromise. We all disagree, of course. It's how we choose to do it that makes the difference.

 

 

 

[Mrskro]

I've been renovating my house.  It started with the master bathroom where my DH died.  A very good friend is my contractor, but he's here all the time regardless of working  (I know I shouldn't mix friendship and business but it works )  We've now redone most of my house.  Because he and I are such good friends, and he is doing the work, we've made alot of decisions together.  And it's not even his damn house lol  For me, he's helped me see different sides of things,  from paint colours to which doors to put in.  I found that bouncing ideas off each other has actually been helpful.  There are things I would never have thought of or picked or done but I love now.  Don't tell him I said that. 

 

But one of the things we've both done is when we feel strongly about something ....I'll use tiles as an example.  he wanted the 24"x12" tiles  I hated them in the guest bathroom  (I agree with him now btw)  He showed me two samples.  Here pick one....The floor looks awesome. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is maybe give him a couple choices you like; here pick one of these colours for the living room.  He might feel more involved but you already made two choices you like?

[Bunny]

T

Watching with interest.  New Beau does not contribute financially to home.  While well meaning, has really questionable taste.  Thought a good color for the new metal roof would be light blue.  Thankfully that color was not on the sheet the roofer handed me to pick from.

 

Ah, nonesuch...I actually did let my boyfriend talk me into letting him paint my 1920s metal roof a hammerite light blue. And, while I know it's not everyone's cup of tea to live in a house that looks like it came straight outa Candy Land, I'm quite enjoying it! Congrats on the new metal roof- I really love mine.

[kjs1989]

I admire all of you who are making decisions and figuring this stuff out.  I own my house. No mortgage. He owns a house he bought back in the divorce. He has a sizeable mortgage. My house is worth three times the value of his house. I also own a company. And some land.  If we progress, no brainer he will move here. But then what?? My attorney keeps reminding me to pay him a visit before I make any major life decisions and start divvying up the financial stuff. So... I just don't make any decisions at all. *sigh*

[Sugarbell]

I admire all of you who are making decisions and figuring this stuff out.  I own my house. No mortgage. He owns a house he bought back in the divorce. He has a sizeable mortgage. My house is worth three times the value of his house. I also own a company. And some land.  If we progress, no brainer he will move here. But then what?? My attorney keep reminding me to pay him a visit before I make any major life decisions and start divvying up the financial stuff. So... I just don't make any decisions at all. *sigh*

 

I can relate to this....I like things the way they are and just can't wrap my head around blending everything (and he is better off than me financially)

 

I need another years of all things separate...at least another year.

 

I admire those too who can take a leap of faith and just go for it.

 

Think I am still too chicken shit. I like being a girlfriend who lives separately.

[Trying]

Bunny I agree that there is still some kind of double standard when it comes to men and women and finances.  NG is a very frugal guy who doesn't try to live beyond his means or care much about material things but even though he won't admit it, I think he is not completely ok with me being the one who owns a house.  We will get past it though because his condo is way too small for us and 5 kids!

 

kjs I sympathize with not wanting to deal with these decisions, it's uncomfortable to think about, let alone talk about! before Tim died he told me "when you remarry talk to Mike (our attorney) about how to protect the kids". Being a financial advisor he saw families torn apart over money issues because they didn't plan.  So when the time comes, I will suck it up and meet with the lawyer because that's what Tim expects me to do.  Funny how at the time I looked at him like he was crazy to think I would ever want to marry another man.  He always was smarter than me.

[serpico]

^^^ I had that conversation with my attorney. He did his job well and told me all about how to put together a trust so all my assets go to my kids in the event something were to happen to me.  But I wouldn't be marrying this woman if I didn't trust her completely to make the right decisions for my kids. So there will be no trust...but a lot of trust 

[Wheelerswife]

^^^ I had that conversation with my attorney. He did his job well and told me all about how to put together a trust so all my assets go to my kids in the event something were to happen to me.  But I wouldn't be marrying this woman if I didn't trust her completely to make the right decisions for my kids. So there will be no trust...but a lot of trust 

I'm going to publicly admit that I agree with Serpico here.  (Is that a first??) 

 

I didn't have kids in the mix when I married John, but we threw all of our eggs in one basket.  I moved into his house and we made it our house.  I have some sense of you wanting to preserve some of what Tim had worked for for your sons, Trying.  But part of me wonders how you can have a balanced relationship if there is some level of hierarchy with regard to income and resources.

 

I say that having been in two opposite situations in my marriages.  In my first marriage, I worked full time and essentially supported my husband (who was disabled).  In my second marriage, my husband supported me, for all intents and purposes.  But in both marriages, we never considered where the income was coming from.  We contributed differently to the relationships, but considered each other equal partners.  We made decisions together...at least in areas where we individually cared to have input. 

 

Some questions to ponder:  Will you always be the sole owner of your home?  Will that create inequity between you and NG?  There may be other factors here, such as the impact of a lower credit rating that may have occurred for NG with his divorce and other obligations, potentially?  I feel like this is prying insensitively and I'm hoping you don't really think I want a response...just questions that you have probably already asked yourself that rise up for me as I read this thread.

 

Hang in there.  I'm pulling for you that you will find the solutions that work for you!

 

Maureen

[Trying]

Serpico I'm glad that you found what works best for you and fianc?, I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to this.  I do trust in NG to be fair and caring about my children in the event that something were to happen to me.  Only one of my children will be underage by the time we marry and I will change my will to have him named as guardian.  The amount that will be put in trust for my kids is basically for their college expenses and whatever is left over.  Once we are married the house will be ours but yes there are issues with his credit rating so my name alone will remain on the house.  He doesn't have any issue with the trust being in my kids name, his life insurance will be in trust for his children.  This protects each of us of in the event we are a "surviving spouse" from having to deal with disgruntled family.  I wouldn't want Tim's family to come after him and he wouldn't want his ex to come after me saying the children didn't get what is due to them. i don't trust Tim's mother or his ex.  It will be all spelled out the way we decide is fair together.  We are both ok with this part.

 

As far as the house now, before we are living together, I guess I need to include him more than I have.  I ask his opinion and there are some things I have changed because of it but it is obvious to both of us that I am running the show and have the final say.  Tim talked me into a lot of things when we built our old house, letting me have full control about decorating but not giving me much say in some of the bigger decisions and because of this I feel a need to be completely in control this time.  Talking it out with all of you has helped me to see this and to realize that I am making NG feel the same way Tim made me feel.  It's different because we aren't married yet but it's not how I want this relationship to be.  I am going to try to involve him more directly going forward.

 

Chapter 2 comes with baggage on both sides and for an overthinker like me it can be maddening. 

 

 

 

[sojourner]

I'm in the process of buying a new house and moving. My realtor made a point to inform me that, though the house is in my name only, should I marry again, in my state (Iowa), my new husband would automatically be entitled to a third of it's value.

 

So, it's a good idea for everyone to be aware of the property laws in their states as part of their financial planning when remarrying.

[kjs1989]

Trying, you are exactly right. There is no "one size fits all."

 

I have two trusts set up for my kids. One is a life insurance trust, the other is inherited money from my husband's aunt. The kids can have that money when they are 35 and are hopefully established in their lives and past the point of making dumb decisions. lol. It will also protect them in an early divorce situation. There are lots of advantages to trusts. It also simplifies the probate process.

 

I actually nagged my NG to do the same for his kids, Death taught me a lot. NG did not even have a will. He had not even changed his work life insurance  policy to his kids as beneficiaries. He did have a will drawn up finally, but I also talked him into doing a trust so his ex-wife would not have access to the money going to his minor son, and so his daughter's loser boyfriend could not get his hands on her share. He asked me to be the trustee.

 

We love and trust each other, but our priorities are our kids right now and we agree on that. Crap happens and other people try to get involved as I learned when D died, and his brother thought he had better ideas on how things should play out with the company and other interests he wanted to involved himself in.

 

I also realize that if our relationship is to progress we will need to protect and provide for each other as well as our kids. That's where it gets very complicated and I am just not sure how to do that at this point, since our finances are somewhat disparate. Hopefully time will help sort it all out.

[Portside]

I wrote this about a year ago and parts of it apply to this thread - of course, all couples are different but the main thing to do so as to not screw up is to talk it out thoroughly before you commit yourself to sharing your lives. 

 

Most folks won't however and will be sad when some aspect of it implodes down the road. Sigh.

 

- Old post follows -

 

Finances

 

Of all the items to consider when we combined our families, this one took the most time and effort. When we first met, our attraction to each other was obvious in an instant. When we discovered that we had many similarities with our approach to money and how we spent and saved, that made our connection even deeper. We both had been cursed previously with a spouse whose ideas about spending were wildly different than that of our own. For me at least, that fact was a constant source of friction between my late wife and myself. To discover that R. was in line with my own financial philosophy was just icing on the cake. But having said all that, it still required many months and an army of lawyers, financial guys and our CPAs to get everything in place in a manner that was fair to all and protected each of us and our children should the unthinkable happen.

 

 

End of life finances:

 

Both of us brought roughly an equivalent value of assets to our marriage. But, they were different in form; R. has a significant interest in an old family business. She also has significant pension assets. I have ownership of the family farm and homestead that I rent out (and do not live at). Additionally, I had more investments and investment income than R. Right off the bat we decided we would not execute a prenup. Neither of us liked the idea and it felt like "I love you and trust you but. . . . . ". Just not our cup of tea - it wasn't going to work for us. Your mileage may vary of course. We decided instead to protect the kids and each others interests through separate Revocable Trusts with each other as the Trustee for the other spouse's Trust. In general, everything is under the control of the surviving spouse when (not if) one of us die. Yes, we trust each other to do the right thing for all of our kids. If we both go at the same time, everything will be divided up equally between the children. In both of those scenarios however, the family business and the family farm remain within the original families. (How this paragraph morphed into 25 pages of legal gobblety-gook in the Trusts is beyond me). Also, each of our remaining parents are elderly and in poor health. Any inheritances from them will go to their respective grandchildren. R. also has a mentally disabled adult brother for whom we are both guardians. Separate monies are split off for his care until he dies. Some college loans will be forgiven but we?ve made it equitable for all by not giving them as much cash. You get the idea.

 

One other thing ? we financed much of the payouts when we go by means of beneficiaries of life insurance and IRA contracts. They are non-contestable in court and will not be probated (and, as a side benefit, no one can view them or how they were set up). Wills can be contested and all your laundry can be viewed by anyone with the $ to pay the copying fees at the courthouse. Doing it the way we did helps guarantee our wishes will be honored. While on this subject ? I urge you all to check the beneficiaries of any life insurance policies you have and ensure the beneficiary is who you want it to be. Back in the day I owned an insurance business and I can't tell you how many times a spouse 'thought' he/she was the beneficiary when in fact, they were not. Sometimes the money went to a person that absolutely loathed the insured and there wasn't a damn thing anyone could do about it. Whether by oversight or by design, a beneficiary is what it is at the time of the insured's death. Courts cannot overrule what is stated on the contract (most times) and the issuing insurance company does not ever buy into the "but I deserve it" or "It's not fair" pleas. It's a contract, pure and simple, and will be honored. If it isn't on paper, it's not real.

 

I guess the questions to ask yourselves and then resolve center around this: What do you want to happen when you or I die? Who gets what? What happens if we both die at the same time? If you have minor children, who will get them? Will you keep them together or will they need to be split apart? Did you check with the folks you selected to care for them? Can they do it? Do they want to??

 

All of our kids have recently reached their majority. We redid all of our paperwork to reflect that. No matter what one chooses, revisit the paperwork every five years or so. Circumstances change and so should your arrangements to reflect those changes.

 

Day to day finances:

 

Both of our monthly incomes are remarkably the same so, we decided to pretty much share all expenses. Just as with the kids there is no 'your money' or 'my money' only 'our money'. We do have separate checking and savings account but that is just for convenience sake. We each have co-signer rights on the others accounts. We discuss spending a lot and if anyone wants to buy something above about $200 or so, we talk it out. This is easy for us as I said before as we have the same financial concerns. We co-own the house/cars/credit cards and mortgage, CDs, IRA and investments.

 

It doesn't matter how you do it - this just works for us. But, you'd be wise to agree to some plan that works for both of you and stick to it.

 

There's a lot more but this should get the mental gears turning.

 

Take a deep breath and get started. There is much to talk about - actually it never stops.

 

Best wishes and good luck - Mike