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mikeeh
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First let me apologize and admit that I am very selfish and only come here when there is something bothering me or something I have to vent about.  I don't feel I have the insight or ability to offer advice or understanding so I only come her when I need.  Sorry, and I get it if nobody comments.

 

I am weeks away from the third anniversary of my wife's death.    Besides just not being ready emotionally I also have our 17 year old at home so I don't feel I am ready for a relationship.  Some of ou will probably understand though when I say that even if I don't want a real relationship I don't want to be alone either.

 

So I placed an ad looking for someone who was interested in something 'casual'.  There was a woman who responded and we hit it off and we have been together now in our unusual relationship for close to 8 months.  I think we have both gotten much more involved and there is much more of an emotional element to this than either of us expected. 

 

There was never an expectation or promise of exclusivity since we were just 'friends' keeping each other company until the right person came along. 

 

We have become very close with daily good morning and good night texts.  Daily expressions of love.  Talk about how important we are to each other and how much we have both helped each other since we both consider ourselves damaged.  She is divorced, and I am here.  She has her kids every other week so we get together every two weeks and spend a lot of the weekend day/morning together.

 

Just this last weekend she tells me that one of the guy friends she will go out with drinks or hang out with she has hooked up with a few times.  That after a couple drinks or something things just got a little wild and they have had sex.

 

Again, there was no promise of fidelity or exclusivity so she has not cheated on me or broken any promise.  I guess I just figured that I mean so much to her that it wasn't a question.  She doesn't think she will ever be in a 'real' relationship again and does not want to surrender her freedom.

 

I know I haven't slept well she has told me.  I said all the right things about how I had no claim on her and we made no promises to each other.  I do have to admit it hurts and it makes me wonder.  I wonder  what she is doing during the two weeks we aren't together.  I wonder how if I mean so much to her how she can do this and risk losing me over sex that was meaningless, not as good as the two of us and had none of the spiritual and emotional connection that we have.

 

So are there others of our widowed brethren out there who have had to deal with this?  I know that if we are not pledged to each other that she does not owe me her fidelity.  She is younger, and more attractive than I would ever think I would be with.  If my option is to say this is killing me and I can't deal with it  You have to promise me the fidelity we didn't ask for at the beginning I risk losing her. 

 

Do I gladly accept the part of her time and attention and love that I can get, or do I say it is all or nothing and risk losing all of her.  There must be other people who have had to deal with this

 

A

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First off,  IMO don't feel selfish or bad for getting what you need out of this forum.  I was a "lurker" for a long time.  I took solace in reading others stories and experiences. 

 

I completely understand not being ready for a relationship.  I've got a 16 and 13 year old and they are very very far from being ready for me to have one and I've got a ton of issues between my step family and my brother and sister.  I'm not in a place to want to subject my kids to a step situation.  I did start of dating sites.  Looking for someone to spend time with, not necessarily a friends with benefits, but dating.  I miss the world of dating. 

 

I have an ex that came back into my life awhile ago, we have the added difficulty of distance.  But we are in the same position you are.  We are friends, casual, not exclusive but in so many ways more than friends with benefits.  I understand how easy it is to fall into something you didn't expect or necessarily want.

 

I can only imagine how difficult it is for you to hear that she has been with someone else.  I don't have any solid advice.  I don't know how I'd react.  I'm sorry,  only you can decide what you are capable of dealing with.  I think you are going to have to do some soul searching to figure out where you are at now and have a conversation with her. Maybe just start with letting her know, you didn't plan it, but it hurt when she told you that. 

 

I wish you the best.

 

 

 

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I haven't been in your situation, I am a relationship type person, so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt.  The fact that you are hurt by learning she slept with someone else tells me that your feelings have moved past casual.  While it's not fair to blame her because of your arrangement, it is fair for you to tell her that your feelings have changed.  Then you and she can decide if it's time to change the terms of your relationship or move on.  Continuing on the way you are seems to me like it would be too painful for you.

 

I can see the appeal of a casual relationship with no strings attached but our hearts were meant to connect to people.  I hope you find a solution that meets your practical needs without sacrificing your heart. 

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Practically speaking: When we have sex, there are 'bonding' chemicals released into our brains- we are chemically wired to attach to the people we are intimate with. Makes sense evolutionally speaking, but can really do a number on us emotionally- regardless of any initial intentions. Add to that the added layer of being widowed, when any kinda happiness/intimacy can feel like the best most addictive drug EVER, and you have a recipe for potential disaster.  (Plus- she's young and hot, too? Damn, dude...)

 

It sounds like she is attempting to stay open and honest with you by telling you about this other man. It could be your closeness is frightening to her so she slept with another person to put up a barrier of sorts between the two of you- to remind both of you about what this is supposed to be. Only you can decide if you can wrap your head around being in this relationship on the current terms. It can only work if you are willing to release all expectations and enjoy the moment, with no attachment to outcomes. Yeah, I know, MUCH easier said than done, right? Nevertheless, it is doable. But. If you absolutely can't do that no matter what then you are going to have to risk losing her by asking for what you are now finding yourself wanting.

 

(I'm guessing we are all adult enough here to not need to add a lecture on safe sex practices...)

 

 

 

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Do I gladly accept the part of her time and attention and love that I can get, or do I say it is all or nothing and risk losing all of her.

 

No one can answer this for you. Only you can decide what you want to live with.

 

You (both) stated your expectations, or lack of them, upfront. She took you at your word and now you are conflicted.

 

Do you now want to be exclusive? If so, talk it out. There is no more risk than that which you current have. She can breakup with you at any point without judgement because that is what you both agreed to. That option remains whether or not you bring up exclusivity. Alternatively, you can continue with the setup you have now and feel shitty about it. This is why I always chuckle to myself when someone says they are in a 'casual' relationship. They very rarely are for both parties when one is more casual than the other. 

 

Good luck - Mike

 

 

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Sex means so many different things for so many people. For some, a casual hookup means nothing more than a goodnight kiss. I'm not in that camp and it doesn't sound like you are, either. It sounds like this is having the same effect on you as it would on me. I won't lecture you about the 'casual relationship' aspect because that decision is in the past, but it doesn't sound like you have the same value system as her. It's nobody's fault, and I agree with portside that it's probably time to fish or cut bait. Things obviously aren't working now, so what do you have to lose if she doesn't want to get exclusive?

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Guest TooSoon

In a very dark time, I got involved in a "casual" thing (not physical but definitely intimate) with someone I have known since childhood which seemed to make perfect sense at the time.  At the start, it was easy.  It was excitement and an escape we both needed.  We had a lifetime of memories and trust and it seemed plausible to keep it simple.  And it was until it became complicated.  It took months to extricate ourselves from the entanglement and years to restore our friendship which is now, at best, tentative.  I do not believe that there is a way to separate the heart from these things, at least not for me.  I probably never believed it but in desperate times...It is not a moral thing for me but as others have said, in matters of the heart all bets are off....I was the one who was rejected and it was a tough pill to swallow with the  vulnerability that comes with grief and at 40-something. 

 

Tell her how you feel - I do not think you've anything to lose, really. 

 

Wishing you the best. 

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I have been in a somewhat similar situation although somewhat different. I ended up getting rejected and it was tough but I also didn't handle things well as I went silent and was very passive-aggressive about it. It's hard to say without knowing this woman but her telling you (is odd) and it says  one of 2 things: I have my walls up and making it clear we are not exclusive OR I am testing you and your feelings to see how important I am to you. I think given how much it is bothering you it's worth having a conversation just to guage what is going on. If she is still in the I don't want to be exclusive camp then it will come down to what you want generally, what you want from her and what you can live with. All the best- this isn't easy.

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Here is another catch.  This seems so intricate that it is hard to explain it all  without overwhelming.

 

She has her own self image or self esteem issues she is dealing with.  It doesn't seem like she does because he strength and vivid personality is one of the things that is so wonderful about her.  She does not come off as a "messed up" person or a basket case.  As a matter of fact she has been a wonderful support for me and helped me a lot with my own self esteem issues.

 

She has said many times that my reaction to this declaration has been a great help to get her through some of her issues.  That my continuing to love her and be there for her has helped her a lot.  To show such unconditional love and show her that what she thinks of herself is not true.  That she is worthy of love and being loved.  She thinks I am a great person, best man she has ever met.  That I have made an incredible change in her life.

 

Now it feels like there is even more pressure on me to not even let on how much it has bothered me.  And do I even have the right to let it bother me? 

 

I don't know if it will continue.  I hate to ask.  Part of what she is trying to figure out is why she is doing it.  Are we getting too close and it is a way for her to pull back and get some distance.  She doesn't want a real relationship and doesn't want to be 'obligated' or lose the freedom she has had for only a year since her divorce.  Is this just a way to re-assert that freedom. 

 

With her own self esteem issues is she just using sex as a way to make she this friend really likes her?

 

I jut feel that I can't talk to her about how I feel anymore because the front I put up is just the one she needed to help herself.  And one of the best things about this was that I finally had someone I could discuss my feelings with.  To a large degree much more than the wife I lost 3 years ago.

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Now it feels like there is even more pressure on me to not even let on how much it has bothered me.  And do I even have the right to let it bother me? 

 

Hell yes Mike. If it bothers you it bothers you. Plain and simple. And if it is bothersome, you'd better say something about it. This is important stuff - it's not a "do you squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle or roll it?" type of thing.

 

With her own self esteem issues is she just using sex as a way to make she this friend really likes her?

 

Who knows? Do you even want to play psychiatrist while you both figure it out? Offering sexual favors without a commitment has been one way of enticing someone to stay for millennia. Are you being played? Again, who knows. 

 

I jut feel that I can't talk to her about how I feel anymore because the front I put up is just the one she needed to help herself.

 

Mike - stop it! The sooner you both start being honest with each other, the better and more dear your relationship will become. If it doesn't survive because you are truthful with each other, well . . . . . do I even need to finish the sentence? You are way over thinking this.

 

Be truthful and honest (with gentleness) and this whole matter will be resolved. One way or another.

 

In any case, it will be for the better.

 

Good luck - Mike

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It sounds like you two have been an incredible support system for one another emotionally. I acknowledge that as a very important factor that can make this situation even more difficult to navigate. As this was supposed to be purely physical, since both of you felt you weren't in a place mentally for more, I'm guessing neither of you were expecting to get along so well outside of the bedroom and it is now messing with both your heads.

 

Though at one time I did contemplate a fwb in my widowhood, I never could follow through with it, so I don't know what you are experiencing. I will share that my own relationship began as two friends supporting one another. Though the attraction was certainly there, we worked at keeping things platonic in order to not potentially mess up a really good friendship, because- as you know firsthand- sex complicates things. I also was interested in maintaining my autonomy, not wanting to feel beholden to anyone, not wanting to be in love, so I kinda get where she is coming from there. obviously, I've worked through my issues enough to now be in a committed relationship, but it took some time.

 

If you don't want things to continue as they are, then you do need to tell her this. Not as an ultimatum, but as someone who is taking care of his own emotional needs. It's been a failed experiment. But, regardless of outcome, you have learned some very important lessons here, yes? No-strings-attached doesn't work for you. And, perhaps you really are ready for an actual relationship after all.

 

 

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She does not come off as a "messed up" person or a basket case.  As a matter of fact she has been a wonderful support for me and helped me a lot with my own self esteem issues.

 

She thinks I am a great person, best man she has ever met.  That I have made an incredible change in her life.

 

Now it feels like there is even more pressure on me to not even let on how much it has bothered me.  And do I even have the right to let it bother me? 

 

I don't know if it will continue.  I hate to ask. 

 

I've been reading this and decided to chime in. I don't mean to seem harsh, I am just sharing a perspective.

 

If it bothers you, it bothers you. There aren't really any 'shoulds' in feelings. This woman sounds like a great match for you and you obviously care deeply for her. Is there a reason you didn't want to be exclusive? Didn't want to cherish her as your own? She thinks you are the best man she knows and you have made a loving and positive change in her life. She has it together and is a good person. What woman are you waiting for? I can only speak from experience, to have a sexual relationship with a man and not have him express at the very least how meaningful and unique and beautiful I am, and that he wishes we would only be with each other, would be very hurtful. I don't think I could do it. Sex is the most intimate act two people can share and it joins us in a very profound way, there are feelings and reactions we are not even consciously aware of, as evidenced here. This is not an indictment on anyone or their actions, it is just how I feel. I don't think I could keep that up, and if he wasn't asking to be exclusive and to actually be in a relationship, I would certainly be compelled to keep looking. Regular sex and texts and conversations and being in one anothers lives is a relationship to me. I would be baffled as to why it wasn't being called that and I personally would be feeling used - as in I am for someones sexual comfort but they really didn't want the whole me. He wanted me for some things, but was keeping his options open for someone better. If my partner felt it was casual, I would leave the FWB. There are lots of stories of why FWB doesn't work for some of us (again, this is not for everyone.)

 

My opinion, because you asked, is declare your love for her, tell her all your feelings, and if you so desire, ask her to be yours exclusively. Perhaps that is the question you should be asking yourself. Do you want her? If yes, then what is stopping you? Great matches don't come along everyday. Maybe FWB isn't your cup of tea either. For some of us, it hurts to share our partner.

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I guess it's all what you feel comfortable with. Knowing that you love her and seem to have become very attached, it doesn't seem healthy or fair to you anymore to have the relationship not be exclusive. If it was truly just a FWB situation originally, it doesn't seem to be that anymore. I think knowing that the person you care about is casually sleeping with others would be a dealbreaker.

 

Explain to her that the relationship has changed and you'd like to be exclusive as far as intimacy. If not just for your emotional health, for both or your physical (sexual) health as well. If she is not willing to do that maybe it's time to move on from this relationship. Don't hide your feelings, it will only ruin the relationship eventually anyway. Best of luck, I can understand not feeling ready for a relationship, but it seems like that is what you are in now. You need to now choose how healthy this relationship will be for the both of you.

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Thank you all for your time and your advice. 

 

It is hard to explain to others what the relationship is and how I feel about it.    Especially when you can't really explain it in your own head.

 

I know I want to enjoy the time I  can with her.  I have to decide how concerned I want to be or can be with the time I don't get to spend with her.  Neither of us feel we are ready for a "real relationship.  While my 22 year marriage was good it was not perfect.  Whose was?  The idea of not being married is a little appealing to me right now.

 

She is recently divorced and wants to enjoy her freedom. 

 

I guess she has to decide why she did it, and if she will keep doing it.  Then I have to decide if I can live with that.  I have had a philosophy about sex that I have to decide was it real or a rationalization.  If real it is very hypocritical of me to hold this against her.  If a rationalization then I have to figure that out and decide what to do about that.

 

That my supportive reaction to her relevation has helped her so much is also a little difficult.  It creates an almost co-dependent air to it that makes me feel the harm to her would be huge if I let it get to me and told her it did.

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makes me feel the harm to her would be huge if I let it get to me and told her it did

 

Her needs are not more important than yours.  Whatever you decide, I hope you'll take care of your own feelings as well as you are trying to take care of hers. 

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Guest nonesuch

I was involve in a FWB relationship for a little while after LH died.

 

I was crazy about the man. We had known one another for several years.  I had a crush on him while I was married, even.  But there are immense differences in our outlooks and he wasn't available for a full-fledged relationship.

 

I wrote him an email (I'm such a coward, sometimes) to tell him that I was ready to start looking for a consort.  I may not find one, I told him.  I was giving up a sure thing on the slim chance there was a man out there who might fall in love with me. I couldn't open my heart fully to another while I was still intimate with him. It would be hard for a real man to live up to the awesome sex and the fantasy of what might have been. 

 

We've stayed in occasional contact.  He will always occupy a corner of my heart.  Realistically I was an option for him, and I'd made him a priority, and that doesn't work, long term.

 

It really may not have a lot to do with your situation, except to point out that life is rarely as tidy as we'd like it to be.

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...

Do I gladly accept the part of her time and attention and love that I can get, or do I say it is all or nothing and risk losing all of her.  There must be other people who have had to deal with this

 

A

 

Sounds like you've belatedly come to realise that your relationship with her has evolved into something more than you had planned - at least from your end, if not necessarily from hers. You have to admire her honesty in telling you about her FWB.

 

If her revelation hurts you, you must decide whether the hurt of not knowing (her not telling you any further dalliances) is worth the heartache. She wants to "enjoy her freedom": that's a pretty clear-cut statement of her immediate priorities, with you providing the emotional "comfort".

 

Let her go, mate. Now that she's had a bite of the apple, you need to confirm to yourself whether you can move beyond it. If you can't, move on.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm happy that you have made changes in your life since we last talked.  You are a good man.  You are worthy of someone's full attention.  Don't settle.  Z is 17, he does't need you as much to catch him when he falls.  You need to take care of you.  Make choices that will make you happier in life.  You know how to reach me if you need an ear.

 

Your friend

A

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My 2 cents is simple.

A long time ago when you started having feelings for her you needed to sit down and have a talk.

No beating around the bush or subtlety.

Just needed to say....I've fallen in Love with you and want us to be a real couple!

No more open or casual relationship.

Just you and I forever and ever!

 

Otherwise she did nothing wrong and your hurt because you didn't commit.

 

I am upfront and honest with people.

Everyone is just a pal unless I say the words I LOVE  YOU AND ONLY YOU AND I WANT US TO BE A COUPLE AND ONLY US!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update:

 

She broke up with me today and I am absolutely devastated.

 

My wife of 22 years was my first relationship.  We all know how that ended.

 

This relationship of almost 10 months is the only other real, intense, loving relationship I have been in.  At the ripe old age of 52 I am going through my first break up.    I don't know how I am going to deal with it.

 

I know everyone has dealt with this before and I am just late to the party but it is like getting chicken pox late in life.  A million times harder to deal with.

 

We love each other intensely.  She broke up today because she loves me too much and it is too much of a burden on her to love me.  She was the only happiness I had in my life.  That was too much pressure on her.

 

It was suppose to be casual, maybe even instructive to me on how to be a better lover.  But for her I was just too nice and too lovable a person and she fell in love with me.  And I of course fell in love with her.

 

For 9 months it was constant texting and calling.  Good Mornings, and Good nights.  Helping each other through our problems.  My crappy job that is working me to death.  Her problems with her ex.  Both of us helping with our personal and self esteem issues.  My teaching her what love is and her showing me that I am worth loving.

 

She was 4 months out of a rough divorce when we met.  It was suppose to be casual but it turned into so much more.  She wasn't looking for more and can't handle more.  But she can't be with me without the intensity of our relationship so she can't be with me, and I can't be with her.  And it is killing me.

 

Everything that has been good in my life for the past 9 months has been her.  Now I am suppose to ignore the pain, and ignore the loss and just get on with life?

 

When we lost our spouses I think we all felt that we would be alone forever.  I know I did.  What a wonderful accident that we met and I got to spend 10 months not alone, and in a relationship that in many ways was better than the one with the wife I lost.  Now I have to try and find someone who can live up to her?  Her beauty, her love for life, her passion, her desire?  I am suppose to believe that this pain which in many ways is worse than the pain from 3 years ago because it was a choice someone made, is worth the risk of trying to find someone else again?

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Mikeeh, I am sorry you are going through this 2nd pain and loss. I have occasionally thought about how demolished I would feel if my ch2 split with me. Especially after losing a spouse. I ache for you.

 

That being said, I am raising the b*llshit flag on her whole deal of "she loves me too much and it is too much of a burden on her to love me" . Those words do not reflect love. There is no such thing as loving someone so much that you have to break up with them. Please.

 

It sounds like you were and are ready for more, and she is, well...not.

 

 

 

 

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