Should I go gentle...

[DonnaP]

Hi Fleur,

I remember you, too, even if you may not remember me. I am almost five years out now, but, like Maureen, I needed to read the wisdom (and hope) from the posts of those farther out than me. Please don't go. You still have a role to play, and thoughts to share with the rest of us.

 

We all feel burned by what happened with YWBB, but have a chance at a new start here, thanks to some very resourceful people. Let's not squander that "second chance."

 

HUGS,

Donna

[kmouse]

Not to come off as a groupie (too late), but the thoughts and insights you folks are expressing are not only profound but grammatically correct.

 

Ha! So much win! In agreement with anniegirl...having my words in orderly cooperation is a must.

 

You guys are just pretty fabulous.

 

kmouse...in pursuit of eventual sassy pillar-ness

[Guest look2thesky]

Thank You... I don't cry uncle because I have a lot to say, have found some great advise from so many here, and for lack of any other descriptive word, am stubborn. I admit. But it's what has kept me strong, and vertical.

[Lisa]

No backlash from me @gracelet!

[Guest tableforone]

Dear friend fleur...your post was beautiful.

 

So many of your thoughts have been mine this past week. The abrupt ending of the board felt like a death to me. I have rewritten my address book a couple of times since being widowed but did not want to delete ywbb from my life.

 

At one point I was a very active member. Without being overly dramatic, I am not sure I would have survived without the support, humor and friendships I made. This week, like many of you, I went back and reread many of my old posts. My very first post Mokie and Lisa-Lisa welcomed me. I have attended small bagos and large bagos. I have made friends that I feel closer to than members of my family. Here among you I began to feel whole again.

 

I hadn't posted much in the past months but did write daily to a widow friend. And I would skim the board to read updates from familiar names and occasionally reach out to a newbie.

 

Some of my widow friends expressed to me that they weren't going to join this board because they wanted to look to the future. Being a widow defined who I am now. I have moved on in so many ways. I want this place to succeed and provide the support I needed to other wids.  We can live our recovered lives and stand as testaments that life does move on without forgetting from where we came.

 

Fleur, your presence, insights and compassion have helped so many. Let's stick around. Someone might need us.

 

 

[mokie]

Hello again, tableforone!!

[anniegirl]

kmouse, you are sassy and a grammatical inspiration. Who needs to be a pillar?

 

gracelet, no backlash. You are preaching to the choir.

 

tableforone, it's good to see you.

 

And to All, I've love reading your words. This is an amazing thread.

[Guest fleur]

@lcoxwell - thank you.

@Michael797-  thank you even if my posts are full of typos. Kmouse was a principal you know?  I almost forgot, your song was fantastic and Kamcho's got a real set of pipes.

@DonnaP - Sorry I called you blubbering when I found out John had died.  I am so happy that you and D. are now able to forge one happy home.

@tableforone - you just repeated some of the same thoughts I had just written about an hour ago but haven?t posted yet.   I feel so lucky to have met you out of horrible circumstance but I really believe laughter is the best medicine.

@LisaPop - I agree, I don?t see any reason for any backlash here.

@look2thesky - it is good to have the strength of perseverance as long as you don?t bump your head too hard.

 

@Gracelet, I am not really grieving the loss of the board, I am grieving the loss of friends and people who touched me along my journey and the board was my connection to them.  It?s sort of like old friends that you don?t get a chance to see very much but when you do, you can pick up right where you left off.  A connection to people that understand when the rest of the world doesn?t. 

 

Although I will always miss him, I have long grieved my kind, handsome, gentle husband.  But, my life is still complicated by his death with regards to my work, where I live, the dysfunction of my children, the family alienation, blah, blah, blah. ? Do you know what I would do to actually be able to just take care of me and go out dancing on tables and have just a wee bit of a social life?  Well I?d give my left nutt - oops it's already gone and I don?t have one! 

 

So here?s the question:  why are you organizing a bago with widows?  (wish it was a week earlier but anyway) For socialization purposes right?  Well some people are more housebound than others and widow/ers with young kids don?t generally get the opportunity to socialize that much.  Just like you said, you don?t have people in your regular life that you can talk to about all that is really going on inside of you; half of which is highly inappropriate for the general population. For me, that is what my widow friends are for and why I make the trek a couple of times a year to be with them.  For those weekends, I also get to be a normal person again.  Well some of the people that were paramount to these events have died while others won?t make the transition here.  Bit by bit, people are falling away and for the most part this place will be just fine without us - it?s pretty much all gone back to business as usual with a slightly different set of rules.  Regarding your trip to Canada, you went to one of the ?professional widow? shindigs and what I am talking about is not the same.  And no, I have no intention of becoming a career widow, I am not just not good with losing people. 

 

I honestly don?t think everyone here understands what is going on for some of us and I certainly don?t expect them too.  It really is a bit like in a real death when life just goes on for most everyone except the person it happens to, your address book changes, you pull away from some and others pull away from you, people think you should be over it already but don?t really have any idea of what?s going on inside of you, and you don?t really have much choice in any of it.

 

And finally, I think this horse has just about been beaten enough and of course I will find my own way.  This time, I am lucky to have gone through just about all the stages of grieving in less than a week. Thank you all for comments and encouragement and permission to post here, ?sometimes? .  There really is a great group of people here and I wish you all the best.

[Nuggets]

I'm staying until John isn't dead anymore --

 

I think all of us have done some reflection on what 'this' all means in the past couple weeks --- it will be a catalyst for some, a bit of a bump on the track for others. 

 

Stay, until you get a better offer

 

 

[IfIonlycould]

Well you said you thought the dead horse was thouroughly beat...but I want to add...I read this entire thread...I was a bit reticent to join this new board in case it was just going to be a cheerleaders group where I, at six and a half years would scare the newbies with the effects of widowhood this far out...

 

Fleur you said.."And finally, how can we post about anything that is meaningful to us that might be potentially disturbing to people less far out?  To the people that are wondering oh my ? if they are still feeling like this at  X years out, its either: 1) What is wrong with them, or 2) Is that all I have to look forward to? "

 

Well I did place a post...here in Beyond Active Grieving...because this is where it belongs...not in the general section...but where the people reading it understand it is for those who are BAG...like AG I do not post in the newly widowed ever it IS their club and one I am thankful to no longer be a part of....but sometimes I need a place to put into words how this widowhood thing is going for me...and well, it ain't always pretty...and I was having one of those days where it comes to the surface....and I decided to post honestly and openly about how I was feeling....and quite frankly I thought...If I don't get a response or get a bunch of cheerleading responses (not that those are not called for AT TIMES) I probably will reserve my posting to just the Goals and Minimalist Challenge in the general section...but I did get responses...genuine, honest responses and it made me realize this board for me still has a deeper purpose...so I for one am staying and I truly hope all of you do too.

 

[gracelet]

 

@Gracelet, I am not really grieving the loss of the board, I am grieving the loss of friends and people who touched me along my journey and the board was my connection to them.  It?s sort of like old friends that you don?t get a chance to see very much but when you do, you can pick up right where you left off.  A connection to people that understand when the rest of the world doesn?t. 

 

So here?s the question:  why are you organizing a bago with widows?  (wish it was a week earlier but anyway) For socialization purposes right?  Well some people are more housebound than others and widow/ers with young kids don?t generally get the opportunity to socialize that much.  Just like you said, you don?t have people in your regular life that you can talk to about all that is really going on inside of you; half of which is highly inappropriate for the general population. For me, that is what my widow friends are for and why I make the trek a couple of times a year to be with them.  For those weekends, I also get to be a normal person again.  Well some of the people that were paramount to these events have died while others won?t make the transition here.  Bit by bit, people are falling away and for the most part this place will be just fine without us - it?s pretty much all gone back to business as usual with a slightly different set of rules.  Regarding your trip to Canada, you went to one of the ?professional widow? shindigs and what I am talking about is not the same.  And no, I have no intention of becoming a career widow, I am not just not good with losing people. 

 

I honestly don?t think everyone here understands what is going on for some of us and I certainly don?t expect them too.  It really is a bit like in a real death when life just goes on for most everyone except the person it happens to, your address book changes, you pull away from some and others pull away from you, people think you should be over it already but don?t really have any idea of what?s going on inside of you, and you don?t really have much choice in any of it.

 

 

What I neglected to say in my last post was that I definitely couldn't do without my widow friends IRL and the widow friends who I connect with one to one online.  It was the loss of the YWBB as a board that I considered wouldn't be the end of the world and I understand the difference to what you were saying. Indeed, I'm organising (well, I'm not organising, I just suggested and bizarrely people agreed!) the bago to socialise and meet the people I've been chatting too for so long now. I'm sorry you can't come this time, Fleur.  Next time?

 

We're all individuals and although being widowed is a huge common denominator, it doesn't mean we all have to agree.  But, I value everyone who is part of this community and appreciate all the contributions.  They have, after all, helped me get to this point.

 

G x

 

 

[Guest fleur]

@Nuggets - It?s really great to have you here.  I know for certain that your presence is a real asset to this place, not least due to your great ability to bring levity to all sorts of conversations.

 

"Stay, until you get a better offer "

Well that almost sounds like settling - just kidding. I get your point.

 

@IfIonlycould - I am really glad you posted and I am happy to read and respond to anyone else who writes here.  I just started to feel like I was taking up too much space.  The more me I see people chime in here and the more pm?s I get (on and off the board) the more I realise that there are a good number of us with similar feelings going through our heads.  And I think it's better to bring them to the surface rather than bury them so the can be dealt with instead of left to fester.

 

??but I did get responses...genuine, honest responses and it made me realize this board for me still has a deeper purpose..."

I am so glad! I've barely made it to other threads yet but will have more of a look when my work settles down a little in a few weeks.

 

There has been a bit of private discussion as to whether or not to create another forum that is not social media based for those that are beyond active grieving to be able to have a place for people to discuss some deeper topics without scaring people off and more fun things like travel.  But, I really don?t think it?s a good idea to separate the board so I have wholeheartedly supported this one unified effort.

 

But? I haven?t really heard too much from those earlier out not the topic so I would encourage anyone affected to feel free to speak up.

 

@Gracelet - definitely next time!

 

 

[MissinGrizz]

I came after all, despite telling you with those others that I wouldn't. Fleur inspired me, too. See Fleur, what you've done? :-)

[Carey]

There has been a bit of private discussion as to whether or not to create another forum that is not social media based for those that are beyond active grieving to be able to have a place for people to discuss some deeper topics without scaring people off and more fun things like travel.  But, I really dont think its a good idea to separate the board so I have wholeheartedly supported this one unified effort.

 

I like the unified effort too. And there are the separated forums within the forum, perhaps for that very reason.  There are just some topics that we really only want to talk to those who are walking similar roads at the moment.  Or that's all we can handle.  But then there are the better days, or different topics that work well in General, Social Situations, etc.  Separated but still one group with one purpose really ... survival lol

[Mizpah]

Maybe I'm being dense and really not getting it at all, so if I offend, forgive me.  But to me, this *is* YWBB, just at another location.  Are people intentionally not migrating over?  Have we lost people? 

[anniegirl]

Are people intentionally not migrating over?  Have we lost people? 

 

mizpah, There are probably older members - who weren't posting anymore - who haven't registered here and might not. It doesn't mean they aren't lurking. Just not actively participating.

 

fleur is right about worrying that what we older wids discuss might scare younger ones. Newbies especially.

 

I can remember being really depressed when I would read posts from people 5 or more years on who still seemed caught up in grief, but being nine years on myself now, I know that I wasn't seeing the larger picture. Didn't really understand.

 

The last thing anyone in BAG wants to is be discouraging but things do come up and you want to share/bounce off others and sometimes those things are bleak.

 

It doesn't mean that farther down the road is the same as the first days, months or years. It's different.

 

This is the only board that I know of that's public. There are smaller groups of people on FB and elsewhere but there have always been these smaller groups. There is nothing wrong with having auxiliary groups of like-minded in tucked away in other sections of the Internet or even using the PM system here to have side discussions.

 

I don't think we should be afraid to post here publicly though.

 

Perhaps if there are topics we might feel are a bit too rough for newbies, we could put a warning in the topic line. Though I doubt that will keep anyone from reading who really wants to know what down the road might look like it will be a heads up.

 

And we should remember that our varying life circumstances make being BAG different for each of us. Being married/coupled again is a different set of factors than being single. Parenting and the stage of the kids is a factor. Our extended families factor. Jobs factor. Whether we were caregivers can still be impacting us. The hopes/dreams we had for ourselves and plain old getting older figure in too.

 

My life is not what I had planned. In many ways, it's far better than I ever dreamed, which is great but it invites guilt in. But whose life is exactly what they had planned?

 

This is the YWBB. This is the BAG section. It has a legacy but it's concrete past is what we are creating right now. jmo.

[Mizpah]

I can remember being really depressed when I would read posts from people 5 or more years on who still seemed caught up in grief, but being nine years on myself now, I know that I wasn't seeing the larger picture. Didn't really understand.

 

The last thing anyone in BAG wants to is be discouraging but things do come up and you want to share/bounce off others and sometimes those things are bleak.

 

I think even newbies have to understand that everything is individual.  There are some things we all share, and honestly it's mostly in the beginning, because things are so incredibly mind-blowingly overwhelmingly insanely unbearably razed to the ground.  There is great commonality in the crisis part.  As time goes on, people shape their lives differently (or life shapes them differently, or life shapes their lives differently).  I think newbies know that some people are going to "heal" much faster than others, or differently.  And I also think we all knew from day one that this would be lifelong, even if we "move on" and create entirely new lives (I am almost four years out, am in a committed relationship and have a baby with him, but for as long as I'm alive, Simon should be and that will never change).  Being a widow IS discouraging.  Even people far out should be able to come here and be fully and completely honest.  Do we have a responsibility to newbies?  Maybe.  To an extent.  But I think all of us (newbies and "veterans" alike) have a responsibility to ourselves (and to our lost loves - and to newbies!) to be real. 

 

Again, I may be just seeing this my way and being really dense, and I hope I'm not offending.

[anniegirl]

Do we have a responsibility to newbies?  Maybe.  To an extent.  But I think all of us (newbies and "veterans" alike) have a responsibility to ourselves (and to our lost loves - and to newbies!) to be real. 

 

I do feel a responsibility but I agree that vets should be able to be real.

 

The real value is in being honest for us and for newbies.

 

Some newbies or those in between will occasionally be unpleasantly surprised by what they read here. That's okay and I, for one, would welcome any questions from them that anything I share might bring to mind.

 

If I write something that makes someone wonder what being nine years out is like on a daily basis, I would hope they would ask.

 

If they see something that makes them fearful, I would hope they felt comfortable enough to ask.

 

Only speaking for me.

[Chopperette]

I agree with Annie, the responsibility is to be real.  That way everyone can see that it's different for everyone.  No marriage or relationship is the same so why should grieving be? We can relate to some extent but NO ONE can be in your shoes.  And that is pretty clear since the first time you read a post. 

I feel that the old timers are a very valuable resource for the newbies and the not so newbies.

[lcoxwell]

As someone who just crossed the threshold of one year, I would like to say to all of you here in the BAG section that your stories of hope are helpful, but so are your stories of when you are falling apart, when you feel stuck in your grief, when things are not looking hopeful, when you are struggling, etc.  Those further behind need to see both the good and the bad.  We need to see the good, so that we can see things won't always be filled with desperation and despair.  We also need to see the struggles, so we don't feel like there is something wrong with us, when we have a bad day, or several.  I am so grateful to those of you, who are willing to open up and share the pain and the joy, the struggles and the successes.  It helps me not to feel so alone, when the bad days come.

[Guest tableforone]

I came after all, despite telling you with those others that I wouldn't. Fleur inspired me, too. See Fleur, what you've done? :-)

 

I glanced at the board sometime over the weekend and saw the latest member was Missingrizz. I smiled. Your contributions have helped so many. Welcome aboard.

[Guest Kamcho]

.

[Guest marian1953]

Oh Gawd,

 

Well, of course we have to be real. I ask you, those of us that looked ahead in the forums years ago, were we scared off? No, of course not. I realized early on that there was no quick fix and never would be. I do appreciate everyone coming out of the woodwork and admitting that they read for years, if  they didn't post. That answered the question "what the hell  is wrong with me?'

The answer  is not a bloody  thing!!!

 

 

[anniegirl]

I ask you, those of us that looked ahead in the forums years ago, were we scared off?

 

No, but it frustrated me a bit because I only joined the YWBB in hopes of finding a way forward. A friend from there told me years later that she'd never seen anyone as determined to move on with life as I was.

 

But she was widowed rather suddenly and my experience meant that I cared for the shell of my LH for a long while before he died. A shell that didn't know me or us. By the time I was truly a widow, I was chomping a the bit for forward progression.

 

I do appreciate everyone coming out of the woodwork and admitting that they read for years, if  they didn't post. That answered the question "what the hell  is wrong with me?' The answer  is not a bloody  thing!!!

 

I read because I wanted to keep up with people and later I was looking for people and there were still questions. Not so many but a few.

 

I gave up posting because I simply got tired of defending the fact that I was different and my point of view was different from the accepted paradigm because it just didn't fit my circumstances or my needs. I got tired of the bullying and I knew it was distracting to people who needed a quieter and safer place.

 

And that's why I read and I had begun to consider posting again in this last six months or so but I didn't want to intrude. I felt like I would be. Hadn't really sorted through that when the board closed. I was pulled in to the FB group and decided, okay, new board/fresh start.

 

And there isn't anything wrong with you, marian1953. We all had our reasons for silence or posting. No right or wrong.

 

I

'm hurt and saddened by the way the old board was run. There are things I would like to discuss with the mods to spare anyone else going through them, but then I wonder if it's worth it.

 

Me too and I do think it's okay to have discussions about the things that made the old board a wild west sometimes. There were things that went beyond people just have different opinions and heated exchanges. A little passion is one thing but some things went way beyond.

 

No need for recriminations but it does no good for people to sit on their hurts and fears.

 

I too don't want to scare the newbies. Things are so much better than in the first year, but it's still not "ok." My beloved, my best friend, my champion, protector and provider died.

 

Truth is sometimes not uplifting. But as I stated earlier, I hope that someone who feels discouraged will feel that they can voice that and ask questions and seek reassurance.

 

We won't always be able to say it gets better but maybe it should be established up front that this forum won't be a place where you will be shamed or ridiculed for asking, being different, sharing what's in your soul even if it makes someone else go "what?".

 

Just my opinions. Just thoughts.

[calimom]

Great thread, Fleur, very thought provoking, and I'm glad you posted it. And for the record, I've always found value in your thoughts and feedback.

 

At 7 years and change, I wondered when ywbb closed, if I would join the new board.  Do I still need it?  Have I moved forward?  Well, yes and yes, and there is so much history connected by people I've "known" there, some I've met IRL, most not.  While the closure was abrupt to say the least, I can't really bring myself to trash the founders for their decision.  With the notifications by members here getting the word out, and optimized search engines, vintage and fresh widows should be able to find their way here - or to one of the other options available.  For isn't that what we're all here for?  Support?  I joined ywbb at around 4 months out, needing SOMETHING that I wasn't able to tap into elsewhere.  I had the classic young widow experience of checking out a support group at a community center to find it peopled with women my mother's and grandmother's ages.  I gave it all of one meeting thinking it was not for me, and ran into the group leader some months later.  She reported the were concerned about me - I probably should have given it more of a chance, though my needs and experiences were so different from retirement aged widows without toddlers circling their knees.  Who knows.

 

There is so much to learn in hearing the stories of others.  There were and are widows whose determination to heal from their grief and find peace beyond tragedy.  I listened to their words intently.  I wanted a key into a positive future.  And I read intently the laments of widows sometimes many years out, so displeased with everything:  work, offspring, friends, their homes, bad relationships.  Quite frankly I learned more from the latter group than the former as far as how I could craft a life for myself and my family.

 

When is is a choice and when is it just rotten luck?  I don't have the answers to this; I doubt anyone does. There did seem to come a time in my own walk on the Widow Road, that I felt able and strong enough to make good choices that would serve me well as I ventured further.  I certainly see how circumstances can dictate otherwise:  economics, geography, health, no immediate RL support when most needed.  Bitterness can wear a soul down - I don't want it to be my soul that gets trampled.

 

OK, rambling at this point.  But enjoying the discussion, and again, thank you Jezzy and the folks working to make this new forum a good place for the newly (and not so newly) widowed.

 

A.