Can we talk about guilt?

[OSAAT]

Why do you think guilt is part of the grief process for some (maybe many)? I have noticed my guilt surfacing with the new grief with the recent loss of my dog. I felt enormous guilt when J died. I am just curious who else experienced guilt with their grief and why you think that is.

[HvnBound]

I felt guilt in the beginning because DH woke me up at 5am the day he died to tell me that we had to get up early so he could go to dialysis, I had to remind him that the time changed from 7am to 11am for his appointment, so we went back to bed. I then woke up at 7:35 and found him dead. I felt so much guilt for about a month because I thought if I had gotten up then he would have been okay until I went to lunch with a widow who was a hospice volunteer and I asked her about why his right hand was splotchy reddish purple the day before he died, she told me it was mottling, caused by the fact that his heart was failing and the body pulls the blood from the extremities to protect the heart. My guilt was relieved at that point and I never felt it again.

 

I am so sorry that you are feeling guilty again, hugs to you!

[Baylee627]

I did, heavily. It began the morning after he died. I recall feeling enormous guilt that I could SEE the sunlight streaming through the kitchen French doors.

 

Food didn't sound palatable because it wasn't FAIR that I should obtain sustenance while his body was lying on a cold, flat mortician's procedure table.

 

And how dare I watch TV or listen to music, when he could not ENJOY  the program or HEAR the lyrics?

 

That was rather early days. Now, I feel mostly guilt for anticipating trips, or spending money on something lavish, or attending our nephews' birthdays without him.

 

As to why we feel guilt, I guess it's because their young life being cut short goes against the natural order of things. They are *sopposed* to be alongside us when we go on fun excursions or see a funny movie or buy something extravagant, because we know they deserved to be doing these things also, and never will.

 

And it feels like they were ripped off.

 

Baylee

 

**edited for clarity

[Chrispy89]

Like Baylee says I also feel guilt that I am still living and he is gone. I feel guilt that I fell in a hole instead of living that life to the full for a while. I also feel guilt because he moved to the other side of the world to be with me, and then he died in an accident in a town I chose.. I feel guilty because we weren't together that long, and he shouldn't have lost his life after only being in our relationship for 3 short years. Our love wasn't worth his death......... I try to take a step back and listen to people tell me how happy he was, he loved the town he was in, he loved the job he was in, he loved me, I loved him....  And if he didn't want to, he wouldn't have made the choice to move. But it is still hard, and it wasn't worth it. I would totally give up meeting him if it meant he got to live a longer life. Even if he was completely happy when he died. So, no, I can't tell you why we feel guilt but I can sure tell you I feel it!!

[Carey]

I still feel tremendous guilt.  I tended to be the decision maker, bill planner, money manager (rather poorly but it still fell to me), I was always "in charge" of him. He did that, not me.  I realize that now.  He always depended on me. The man never bought a tee shirt for himself.  So because "I" found the job in Saudi, and "I"  MADE him go, and "I' treated him like a child when he drank and "I" was giving him the cold shoulder because I knew he was doing something he wasn't supposed to I felt like all the events leading to his death were set in motion by me.  Also when he was home, I knew his routine and I knew the signs to watch for and how to prevent chaos and disaster and I 'managed' his alcoholism (what a laugh huh?) I still feel like if he had been home or if I had been there, he would never have died. He would have made it to bed and his CPAP machine and lived.  No matter what anyone says to try to convince me otherwise I lived with that man 17 years and I knew him inside and out and I COULD have saved him.  Well at least that day.  Who knows. It's pure torment and hellish to always have the thoughts running through my head, what if this, or what if that. 

[Mizpah]

I've always felt like guilt hasn't been part of my experience of it and always said I felt like we were BOTH victims of the accident that killed him.  But the fact is that, while both of our lives as we knew them were ended, my life continued, albeit in an entirely different vein.  I think even as I was saying I felt no guilt, it (or something like it) surfaced in my statements and behavior.  For example, for the first three months, I ate barely anything.  Out loud at first and then later in my head, I would say, "If he can't eat, I'm not going to eat."  So I think even those who "don't feel guilty" (like me) actually somehow do in a different version.

 

[Guest look2thesky]

I think many are affected from this me included.

What ifs ? After a while the feelings fade. And happy moments and memories fill the space.

Just an opinion that there was nothing..

You really could have changed. I once read man is among the only living creatures that are affected by guilt.

It is a human frailty. You loved him unconditionally or so it seems from your writing.

And are a good person. That's all you can do.

[IfIonlycould]

I could have written Baylee's post word for word....it was ABSOLUTELY everything I felt/still feel at times.  And OSAAT I am not surprised that the death of your dog has brought not just the mourning of your beloved pet but the grieving of your husband.  Every death I have experienced since DH's passing has brought it back to the surface.  I have come to realize that and now recognize and acknowledge it but the first time it happened it sent me into a double tailspin. 

[Jess]

I have a lot of guilt I am working through. A couple weeks before he died, LH told me he wasn't feeling well. I said "Maybe you should go to the doctor?" and he brushed it off. I know now I should have said "I'll make an appointment for you to go to the doctor." If I had pushed it, maybe he would still be here... but maybe he wouldn't. The fact is I chose our path that night by not forcing the issue. I remind myself he was an adult and if he was really concerned he would have gone, but he is not around to blame, only I am, which I think for many may be the crux.

 

I also feel guilt over the little things I would get angry at that were so freaking meaningless now. I feel like sometimes I have lost perspective over whether I was a good wife or even if I am good person.

[MrsT85]

I also feel guilt over the little things I would get angry at that were so freaking meaningless now. I feel like sometimes I have lost perspective over whether I was a good wife or even if I am good person.

 

Oh my, did I struggle with this A LOT at the beginning.  And still do, although to a lesser extent.  It bothers me so deeply that I'll be a better wife the second time around because of the perspective I've gained from losing him.  Tim absolutely deserved the "best" version of me, and I spend a lot of time being ashamed that by dying, he's made me better for the NEXT guy.

 

And I also struggle with blaming myself.  I usually went out with him those Friday nights, and the night he crashed was one of the few times I didn't.  Maybe I could have helped keep him from dozing off.  Maybe then he'd still be alive.  But I have to remind myself that no one FORCED him to get behind the wheel that night.  He knew how sleep deprived he was, and could have napped in the car in the parking lot for a few hours rather than chugging and energy drink and "powering through" the exhaustion.  And maybe he would have fallen asleep even if I had been with him, and then I'd probably be dead too.

 

I don't know.  It's all so complex and emotionally murky and the level of guilt I feel can vary wildly from day to day or even hour to hour.  But I've been around this community long enough to know that's not too unusual.

[Jen]

Guilt: Jim fractured his foot; I got weary of him stumping around in his boot and vegging on the couch too much, and I lost my temper about it more than once. I wasn't particularly sympathetic after the 8 week x-ray said it had healed adequately.

 

Major guilt: He was diagnosed with pneumonia about a month before he died. He had been coughing for weeks by then-- he finally made an appointment when he started running fever. I didn't talk to his doctor; I assumed she would pursue the best course of treatment. She talked about admitting him, but he didn't want to go into hospital, and I didn't want to force him-- but that might have been motivated as much by a dread of the hassle of dealing with a hospitalization (and not at the facility where I work) as it was by wanting the best for him-- not a pleasant thing for me to admit. I made sure he took his antibiotics, and when he didn't spike a high temp and he stopped coughing up blood, I called it a win. I got frustrated with the whole situation-- between his foot and his chest, he'd been laid up for three months. The day he died, I was at work, complaining to my coworkers about what a baby he was and how I suspected he was malingering.

 

So-- yeah, guilt in epic proportions. Guilt I'll never get over. No wonder my life is so dark. I don't deserve any light after that.

[OSAAT]

 

I also feel guilt over the little things I would get angry at that were so freaking meaningless now. I feel like sometimes I have lost perspective over whether I was a good wife or even if I am good person.

 

Oh my gosh, Jess. I can relate to this so much. This is where I am at. This is my struggle. I feel that for me, too much guilt is unproductive, and not facing the guilt is just as unproductive. I am struggling with the balance. I am sorry you are feeling this way. For the brief time I met you, I can say, you seem to be a wonderful person. I am sorry we are dealing with this aspect of grief.

[Lmsmdm]

I still get blasted with guilt now and again. Two nights before he died he was complaining and whining he didn't feel good, he had eaten 2 pints of strawberries and we had had big salad for dinner.  He also had a habit of being a big baby, so it was not unusual for me to ask him did we need to call the doctor or go to the hospital, to help me put things in perspective. So he let out a 5 minute fart, and all was better.

 

The night he died he started again, only this time it was 10:30 pm and I had to go to work in the morning. I asked him the question of hospital or dr, and he said no, so I proceeded to yell at him. 20minutes later I heard a crash and thud as he collapsed to the floor.

 

He died in the ambulance @ 12:48am.

 

I also deal with guilt as he had hep c and was technically on the liver transplant list, his weight was an issue though, and more than likely would not have made it to actually get a liver. Had he died from liver failure, that would not have been pretty. I would have had my sweet baby for at least 5-10 more years, but his death would have been slow and painful. About a year after he died, was the first time the thought flickerd in my head that I was a little grateful  that I (and he) didn't have to go thru that. I was and am still horrified that I even allowed myself to think that.

[Momtojandj]

Guilt, a lot for me. One hubby and I had been having some issues in our marriage . Both of us to stubborn to give in and make it right. It was a Saturday , I can still see what he was wearing , I had this overwhelming urge all day, everytime he passed me in the house to grab him and hug him, tell him we will be ok. I didn't , I went to part time job, kids went to sleepover . Last Time I talked to him , 9pm he said he was at a friend  house. He was killed at midnight riding home on his motorcycle.

Guilt for not following my gut, and telling him we were gonna be ok, hugging him that one last time.  Ironically he changed clothes , and I have the shirt still in my closet that he was wearing that day.

[Lisa]

I hate it. Grief counseling and regular counseling help me.  I have control issues that trigger guilt in how I hande this new life. I am able to let go of my "I couldn't save him" guilt. It is a blessing.

[linda5]

Oh Just Jen, you deserve a good life & light!  I think most men are babies when they don't feel 100%.  (I know mine was.)

 

I also have guilt.  He died suddenly of a pulmonary embolism and I should have know something was wrong.  I keep thinking I should have looked at his legs and should have seen some swelling. 

 

Maybe we all have guilt because they died and we had the audacity to continue to live and go on without them?  I guess my punishment is to miss him for the rest of my earthly life.

[ATJ]

 

((OSAAT))

 

Guilt - "let me count the ways "  I felt guilty for simply being alive -  for breathing, moving, seeing and just about everything else under the cosmos. Below is an excerpt from a publication on "Survivor Guilt"

 

"Survivor guilt (also called survivor syndrome) is a mental condition that occurs when a person perceives him/herself to have done wrong by surviving a traumatic event when others did not. It may be found among survivors of combat, natural disasters, epidemics, among the friends and family of those who have died by suicide."

 

Logical or not, MANY people do experience this.

 

 

"Guilt is perhaps the most painful companion of death."

~~ Coco Chanel

 

 

 

 

"May you be able to accept the seasons of your heart,

just as you have always accepted that seasons pass over the fields.

May serenity be yours, as you walk through the winters of your grief."

 

~~ Kahlil Gibran

 

 

Peace to You!

 

ATJ 

 

[Jen]

Oh Just Jen, you deserve a good life & light!  I think most men are babies when they don't feel 100%.  (I know mine was.)

 

I also have guilt.  He died suddenly of a pulmonary embolism and I should have know something was wrong.  I keep thinking I should have looked at his legs and should have seen some swelling. 

 

Maybe we all have guilt because they died and we had the audacity to continue to live and go on without them?  I guess my punishment is to miss him for the rest of my earthly life.

 

(((Linda)))

 

Same here. Jim threw a clot and died of a PE too-- I should have seen the red flags, I should have known he was at high risk for clots. It never occurred to me. In hindsight it was glaringly obvious, but at the time, I just thought-- you know, big whiny baby, you know? Typical guy. @@ Now I know better, and I will never make such a mistake again-- I hope I won't ever be that complacent with my loved ones, anyway-- but it's too late, the damage is done. And punishment? Oh, yes, I'm being punished. Endlessly.

[SoVerySad]

I have experienced guilt based upon feeling that I failed to get him to go to the ER the day he died suddenly at home8. I was ready to take him, but he didn't feel he needed to go. I don't know why I didn't absolutely insist. I'll always regret not pushing harder.

 

The other thing that has made me feel guilty is comments from others - comments intending to be kind and affirming, but instead make me feel as if I failed. T's parents and many other people told me after he died, they know T was only here as long as he was, despite several critical illnesses, because of how well I took care of him and made sure he got the care he needed, etc.. They had no way to know that I feel if I accept their words as truth, then I must have failed when he didn't survive that last day.

 

I wish I could get another shot at that last day.

[moncoeur]

I find the guilt to be the hardest thing to overcome. I am almost 20 months and I can't let it go. I feel responsible for him because I was the one making the decisions in his cancer care. I took him to a hospital he didn't want to go to because I thought it was the best, that hospital was a nightmare, and then he died. 

 

I wish when first said he was sick that we would have pushed and pushed the doctors to dig deeper to find the cause of his pain not just write us off with pain killers. Had I been pushier sooner he would still be here.

 

There are lots of things I feel guilty about. I don't know that I will ever feel free again.

[ATJ]

 

"What other dungeon is so dark as one's own heart;

What jailer so inexorable as one's self?"

 

~~ Nathaniel Hawthorne

 

 

Through Google I found the following article, which MAY help some of you?

 

ATJ

 

 

"Coping with Guilt" - Article from 'Beliefnet'

 

Guilt is one of the most powerful negative reactions to the loss of a loved one, equaled only by anger as a common grief experience. After someone close to us dies, we think back to events, conversations, or modes of behavior we engaged in before the death. We examine the way in which we believe we played a vital role in that person's final decline, accident, or illness. Often, we assume responsibility for the death, which can range from thinking we were unkind or unhelpful to thinking we actually caused the death.

 

Regardless of how or why our loved one died, we sift through the evidence of past behavior, giving ourselves reasons to be miserable. We become tormented by our own perceived failures, omissions, insults, poor judgment, or unwise choices.

 

When someone dies, our world is in disarray, and our lives suddenly seem unpredictable. Our reality is turned upside down. By feeling guilty, we give ourselves a sense of having control over the situation. If we can assume guilt for the death, then we can impose some order on chaos. We create cause and effect, saying to ourselves, "Because I did this, then this happened." But these self-inflicted emotional wounds plunge us even further into despair. What can we do to relieve ourselves from the torment of these self-accusations?

 

There are several ways to cope effectively with guilt.

 

Apologize to your loved one.

One of the ways to release guilt is to talk it over with the person to whom it is linked?even though your loved one is not here. Visualize your loved one sitting with you, or speak to your loved one's photograph. Talk openly from your heart. Be specific about the action or omission or other reason for your guilt. Talk about why you did or didn't do the thing that now causes your pain. Explain how it makes you feel now and how you would change it if you got a chance. Then ask for forgiveness.

 

For several days, repeat this process. Spend as much time as necessary to describe the reason for your guilt and to convey the depth of your remorse. It's OK if you begin to cry and can't finish what you're saying. You can always take a break and start over again.

 

Listen.

Once you're comfortable with this process, add another step: After you have had your talk, close your eyes and think about what your loved one would say to you about what he or she has heard. Write down the response. If you have been forgiven, let those words bolster you and make self-forgiveness possible. If you are unsure about whether you've been forgiven, write what you would like to hear and why.

 

Seek a new perspective.

Have a talk with a professional counselor, member of the clergy, or another reliable resource. Discuss the forgiveness you need and the reason it is so important to you. Take with you the note you wrote, describing what you need to "hear" from your loved one and why. As you talk over the situation, allow yourself to consider new perspectives on the situation that are offered to you. You may need to accept the idea that your guilt is completely unfounded or that it is a substitute for some other painful feeling.

 

Look at the whole picture.

Recognize that no relationship is all bad or all good. List the things for which you will never feel guilt--ways in which you gave, supported, expressed affection or appreciation, or otherwise enhanced your loved one's life.

 

When you find yourself beginning to be swept into the gulf of familiar guilt, take out your list. Don't just read the words, visualize the whole context for each listed action. For example, if you wrote, "I tried to help her have confidence in herself," see yourself and your loved one interacting in a specific situation in which you lent her your support. Continue using the same procedure for each item you've listed. Realize that this list represents the reality of your relationship.

 

Set a no-guilt deadline.

If your guilt still plagues you on a daily basis after releasing it through talking and focusing on the aspects of the relationship that were purely positive, consider selecting a date in the future when you will stop self-punishing thoughts. Have a truce with yourself set for that day. Say, "I've relived the reason for my guilt over and over. I could not have more regret over my actions. Now it is time to forgive myself and stop. On (date) I will no longer blame myself." Your personal deadline may be your loved one's birthday, the anniversary of her death, New Year's Day, your own birthday, or any day that has particular significance to you.

 

Redirect guilt.

Many survivors have found relief from guilt by directing that same energy and time to a project that is an outgrowth of their personal loss. This may mean helping increase awareness about something such as teenage drunk-driving or the need for organ donors. It may also involve creating a new endeavor that memorializes the loved one in a particularly original and constructive way.

 

Finally, remember always that most of us accuse ourselves unnecessarily and without good logic. Show yourself the same kind of understanding and forgiveness you would show a close friend or relative. Realize that by living within the cell block of your own guilt, you're creating a jail for your mind. You wouldn't think it reasonable for someone else to punish himself in this way, so don't give yourself permission to do it. Free yourself for the softer, kinder emotions of loss, and you'll find your days opening up to embrace the love and positive memories you shared.

 

--------

 

[MrsMisterman]

I don't know if guilt is exactly  the right word for what I struggle with. Extreme remorse is probably better. The " could've, should 've, would've " paralyzed me for a long time. If we had made different decisions, if I had been paying better attention. If we had turned left instead of right. Head east instead of west. Where in the road we got lost that lead to the awful path. I got obsessed with it.  Trying to pinpoint where in time a different action  " could've, should've, would've " yielded a different outcome. An exercise in futility. It can still be triggered, but it is not as consuming as it once was.

 

True guilt overwhelms me occasionally. I think back to me bitching about something stupid. Or meaningless little annoyances I blew into some kinda big sin. It's a quick stab to a broken heart. But, a healing balm takes over very quickly. He knows. He knew then and he definitely knows now. It meant nothing. It was a bad day, hormones, a stressful situation at work. Meaningless. Never changed by one ounce my love or devotion to him.  He knows.  I know. 

[OSAAT]

 

 

Guilt is perhaps the most painful companion of death.?

~~ Coco Chanel

 

This right here. This is what I could not find the words for. Thank you ATJ.

[patriciad]

I can remember when I was about 6 months out I went to group grief counseling.  One thing that stuck with me was when the moderator said that we all suffer from guilt and anger when we experience loss.

I felt guilty that I didn't push more when the doctors didn't listen to us 6 months before diagnosis when we told them DH was losing weight, was unusually tired and anemic.  I felt guilty that I didn't push more when he had an isolated fainting spell a month before diagnosis and I didn't ask the dr for an mri (DH had met to the brain).

I felt pretty angry about the way he received medical care before his diagnosis and I made sure those doctors knew how much their inattention to DH's symptoms caused a missed diagnosis.  I don't believe it would have made a significant difference in the course of his disease but I feel that if we had known sooner, perhaps we would've used the time he had left differently.

I did find myself, afterwards, feeling guilty about little things.  Like rushing him out the door in the morning instead of lingering like he wanted to over a hug and kiss.  I would die to have one of those hugs and kisses today.  I felt guilty for not saying I love you more frequently even though he rarely said it but always showed it.

It will be six years on Tuesday and I have learned to let the gilt, and the anger, go.  It serves no purpose.  But I don't hesitate to say "I love you" frequently these days and a hug and kiss are well worth being a couple of minutes late.  So sad to learn things the hard way.

 

Pat

 

[rooshy]

I felt guilty for a long time because DH was on life support and my in-laws and I had to decide to keep him on or off of it.  It was the 'what-if's?' that went with his death - what if I had taken him to a different hospital......what if I forced him to go to the doctor earlier that week....etc.  All of us on this board did the best we could with what was available at the time.  Please be good to yourself.